Raiza57 Report post Posted January 20, 2011 hey zidane you should netplay me ive never played a good hazama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moy_X7 Report post Posted January 20, 2011 http://www.sirlin.net/ptw For those who haven't seen it. Hey, at least this thread is not a complete waste since I've been linked to something worth reading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St1ckBuG Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Am I too late to troll this thread? Dacid sucks, fundamentals in BB don't exist, BB sucks, WC sucks, Bang 5A, Hazama 214D~A, WC sucks Think I covered everything :D Hey, at least this thread is not a complete waste since I've been linked to something worth reading. D: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CakeWasBannedd Report post Posted January 20, 2011 all of this was a trap to get zidane to post in it and troll so that raiza could ask him to netplay with him you clever fool Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killionaire Report post Posted January 20, 2011 http://www.sirlin.net/ptw For those who haven't seen it. Hmm.. Useful. Will digest later. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
advancedNoob Report post Posted January 20, 2011 link is broken though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moy_X7 Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Does Zidane even mess with lolnetplay? If he does then it would prove to be lulz watching "the best Bang on PSN" get humbled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psycofang2 Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Does Zidane even mess with lolnetplay? If he does then it would prove to be lulz watching "the best Bang on PSN" get humbled. hes the best bang? minus 2 the rest seem to fight the same to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zidane Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Get humbled by what? I'd probably lose to netplay Bang. I got raped like 6 times straight by some guy named ThaBangPlayer when I fought him on PSN. Not saying either of these guys suck, even thuogh they do cause they play BB, but yeah. Not to mention I don't have my PS3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moy_X7 Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Bleh, I wanted to see this match D: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted January 20, 2011 I'm bored, so here we go at trying to do this "right". Flame away. Disclaimer: I am not an expert, but my theoryfighting is good, so writeups are easy. :P Goals: #1: Define each fundamental so that people (really, beginners) understand what is meant when the term is thrown around. #2: Give an example of what happens if you're bad at that area so that a reader can both understand why they want to be good at that area and what happens if they're not. (Which should, in theory, help them identify which areas need improvement.) General Fundamentals: Neutral game/Footsies: The art and science of controlling space and trying to maneuver yourself and your opponent into a position that is more favorable for you than for them so you can start your offense. Where this is will vary on a match by match basis - it's not necessarily about getting into the position that's 'always best' for your character, so much as it is maneuvering into the one that puts you in the best position relative to your opponent. This is also where your 'abare' skills - your ability to get damage from random hits, which is mostly the ability to pick up combos from random stuff - comes into play. Good neutral play go a long way to winning a match all by itself, but is often overlooked. If you have a weak neutral game relative to your opponent, you will find yourself on the defensive as they position you exactly where they want you. Offensive fundamentals: Pressure: This is where you get to once you've 'won' the neutral game for the moment. Your character is in good position, and you're attacking and forcing your opponent to block. Pressure consists of blockstrings, high/low/throw/crossup mixups, unblockables, and anything you can think of to get through your opponent's guard and start inflicting damage. If your pressure is weak, your opponent is just going to block all your stuff. Hit Confirming: Hit confirming occupies a relatively small amount of -time- during a match, but it's a crucial skill - namely, the ability to tell when you've landed a good hit, and follow it up into a combo. This ranges from very easy - landing a throw, or an attack you were pretty sure was going to hit - to difficult situations that require good reflexes and practice, like hitting an opponent with an air unblockable when they do an unexpected jump out. If your hit confirming is weak, you'll be landing a lot of single hits and short "accidental" combos because by the time you realize you've hit your opponent, you've already missed your combo window. Combos: Consists of two basic areas - choosing the right combo for the situation, taking into account position, heat, and any character specific factors (including combos that do/don't work on specific opponents, and any character specific 'resources' like wind/gravity/install gauges.) and combo execution. Combo execution means actually DOING the combo without dropping it, bluebeating it, etc. If you have weak combo skills, you'll waste heat and other resources, do less damage than you might have, and potentially leave yourself open by dropping a combo in the middle. Okizeme: What you do after you've scored a knockdown and can't continue your combo. (A knockdown where you can keep your combo going is just comboing, not Oki). This consists of trying to read your opponent and cover their options so they get hit or are forced to block on wakeup instead of being able to roll away back to neutral positioning. If you have weak okizeme, you'll find yourself back in the neutral game after most of your knockdowns. Defensive fundamentals: Blocking: Avoiding damage by blocking your opponent's pressure. When you 'lose' the neutral game and your opponent is pressuring you, it's your blocking that keeps every attack from turning into a damaging combo. If you have weak blocking skills, you're going to take a lot of damage. Teching throws: The throw equivalent to blocking. Contrary to common statement, this is not just about having fast reflexes - lots of good players still get thrown when they're not expecting it - a large part of this is knowing when you could get thrown so you are ready to tech. If you have weak throw teching skills, expect to get thrown a lot. Escape: This consists of any and all options you have for ESCAPING an opponent who is applying pressure and resetting the game to neutral - or even starting up your own pressure instead. Barrier defense to push the opponent back, instant blocking to create holes in their block strings, reversals (possibly in windows created by instant blocking), counter assaults, backdashes, and so forth. If you have weak escape skills, expect to remain stuck in your opponent's pressure until they land a hit and combo you. Anti Air: Not REALLY its own section - more a part of the neutral game, but it's a specific area of weakness within that for many people. Anti-airs are, as you might expect, your methods of shutting down attacks from the air. Being effective at anti-airing means knowing what your opponent's good air attacks are, and which of your attacks will beat them under which circumstances, and applying that knowledge effectively. If you have weak anti-air, expect your opponent to win the neutral game a lot by airdashing or jumping in. Wakeup: The opposite of Okizeme, this is what you do when you've been knocked down. Do you roll? Quick recover? Delay your wakeup? This is mostly dependant on your understanding of your opponent's okizeme options. If you have a weak wakeup game, expect to roll right into another combo when you get knocked down. Note that this list does not include "reaction time" (you need it), prediction/Yomi, mindgames, conditioning or similar concepts, which I don't feel are 'fundamentals' so much as an advanced skills that build upon your fundamentals - the actual meat of playing the game once you're past the basics. Flame on, amigos. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Needs more emphasis on defensive zoning (aka GTFO OF MY BUBBLE) when discussing neutral, IMO. It's pretty important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted January 20, 2011 I think my neutral game writeup is definitely the most vague and unhelpful. If people want to single out some specific areas there, we could. Defensive zoning isn't really relevant for all characters and matchups though, unless I misunderstand what you mean by it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted January 20, 2011 I think my neutral game writeup is definitely the most vague and unhelpful. If people want to single out some specific areas there, we could. Defensive zoning isn't really relevant for all characters and matchups though, unless I misunderstand what you mean by it. Like I said, I mean the "GTFO out of my bubble" sort of deal -- keeping your space intact, stuffing approaches. It's vaguely mentioned in your AA sections, but it's a bit more than that. Should be relevant to most characters. Not necessarily all matchups, sure, but most characters should have defensive zoning options/options for keeping their space THEIR space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angel Report post Posted January 20, 2011 Does Zidane even mess with lolnetplay? If he does then it would prove to be lulz watching "the best Bang on PSN" get humbled. Humbled? Oh! So, "Best Bang on PSN" is a desirable title?! Now I get it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsanctifier Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Oh look everybody is now teaching this amazing OP about game mechanics. If you guys want, talk to him somewhere else. This thread is officially useless. THERE ARE PLACES ON DUSTLOOP TO SHOW HIM THIS BEGINNER STUFF. IT LOOKS LIKE MY POINT HOLDS TRUE. =.= Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zidane Report post Posted January 21, 2011 HAVE NO FEAR DUSTLOOP POSTERS UNSANCTIFIER, THREAD SAVIOR IS HERE Swooping into threads from the sky, he'll tell you the obvious and feel better then you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qwerty Report post Posted January 21, 2011 his attitude is actually rather warranted. there's no reason for this thread to exist (let alone in this subforum) because this is all information that's already been touched on elsewhere and in more detail at that. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8468-What-s-a-Hitbox-Priority-Canceling-Frame-Advantage-Meaty-Attacks http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8423-A-primer-on-mixups http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?8396-Terminology-Used-on-Dustloop-Defined and then if you want character specifics, go to the character subforums. simple as that. quite frankly, raiza made this thread for himself, expecting other people to chime in and help him. nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is rather annoying that he's trying to pass it off as a guide for everyone when it's clearly "help raiza hour". ps unsanctifier this was it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CakeWasBannedd Report post Posted January 21, 2011 he'll tell you the obvious and feel better then you! than* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaelSeraphim Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Cough* Cough* Prick Cough* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaelSeraphim Report post Posted January 21, 2011 This thread.... Leaves/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsanctifier Report post Posted January 21, 2011 HAVE NO FEAR DUSTLOOP POSTERS UNSANCTIFIER, THREAD SAVIOR IS HERE Swooping into threads from the sky, he'll tell you the obvious and feel better then you! I make epic posts, it is how I get off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nini Heart Report post Posted January 21, 2011 Wow so this whole thread was just a bait so Raiza could get to ask to play Zidane? Srsly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DF2K Report post Posted January 21, 2011 HAVE NO FEAR DUSTLOOP POSTERS UNSANCTIFIER, THREAD SAVIOR IS HERE Swooping into threads from the sky, he'll tell you the obvious and feel better then you! Shut up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
