[CS2] Tsubaki Yayoi - Combo Discussion 3.0

[Ginseng]

Please continue combo discussion in here :D

[STenSatsu]

Looks like pretty much anything into 2cc can be followed up with the 236b/c>214b/c>22c. Also looks like they removed or lowered the same move proration on 6c as well. They definitely messed with the base properties of a lot of her stuff though so it's going to be hard to figure out until we get our hands on it or JBBS goes into it.

[Airk]

Looks like pretty much anything into 2cc can be followed up with the 236b/c>214b/c>22c. Also looks like they removed or lowered the same move proration on 6c as well. They definitely messed with the base properties of a lot of her stuff though so it's going to be hard to figure out until we get our hands on it or JBBS goes into it.

How did we get the CS1 frame data we're using, anyway? Anyone know? Because that's...really handy for getting stuff like this square.

[pktazn]

Someone on Dustloop got the mook of CS1 information and they translated it from there iirc.

[Airk]

Someone on Dustloop got the mook of CS1 information and they translated it from there iirc.

That's pretty much the answer I was expecting. I guess we'll be waiting on the release of some sort of official publication then.

[Urichinan]

(CS1) Is (Corner) 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 22C > 6C > 236236C worth the damage without any stocks, or are there better and more damaging stockless corner combos?

[Airk]

(CS1) Is (Corner) 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 22C > 6C > 236236C worth the damage without any stocks, or are there better and more damaging stockless corner combos?

The combo FAQ lists this as a zero stock corner combo:

5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 214A > 5B > 623C > j.236A > j.214C

I'm not EVEN going to try to do the math and figure out the damage though, so someone will need to try it and see how much oompf this has. I don't think it's going to beat the damage from the combo you listed, but it also doesn't cost any heat, so it's a tradeoff. 236236C at the end of that going to be dealing its minimum 840 damage, so it may not be the best use of heat.

[Urichinan]

That one does 2094

5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 22C > 6C > 623C > j.236A > j.214C does 2157

It's not THAT much a improvement, but it looks more stylish and it DOES do more.

Any of the more experienced Tsubaki's have any better ones I could use? The ones on the guide don't do as much as this one.

[Dusk Thanatos]

5bb>5cc>214a>2cc> j.CC>j.236a>j.236c

You have to to be smack in the corner, though. And, honestly, if you're in the corner with no charge, I would be going for more solid knockdowns with 22C to get charge time in, since charge is damage and pressure (preferable against charas with weak reversals/normals and zoners), or ending with super to reset to neutral for a good 2-3 stocks (preferable against charas with strong reversals).

[BatousaiJ]

And it's about time to break out some combos-

I've looked over the combos posted in the sticky above and I must say the damage and heat gain for many of those combos are not the same as it is in the PSP version of CS 2.

Whether that's a difference between the platforms or not but I'd wager the console patch would more likely follow the PSP since it's the most recent release of the bunch.

What I'm noticing is generally less damage and less meter gain for every combo listed which is rather disappointing but it is what it is.

However, that doesn't mean her combos are weak. On the contrary, they are quite strong. I'm going to make a rather extensive list of combos sooner than later but I'll start with one favorites I've come up with that isn't listed in the combo thread.

1 Charge / Corner

5BB -> 5CC -> 623C -> j214A whiff -> 2C -> hjc jC -> j214D -> 6CC -> jC -> jCC -> j236A -> j214C 3732 damage 37 meter gain

Execution level = Easy

Expect a lot more in the future.

[Dusk Thanatos]

>one charge

>5b starter

>3.7k

life, thank you

[Airk]

Well, the comboes being discussed were CS1 combos, I believe. CS2 combos aren't really under discussion since no one is really playing with them.

[BatousaiJ]

Well, the comboes being discussed were CS1 combos, I believe. CS2 combos aren't really under discussion since no one is really playing with them.

Yes, I was referring to the locked stickied thread dedicated to CS 2 combos.

Not the combos you guys have been discussing in this thread.

There's another combo I've been fiddling with, this one is a mid-screen 1 Charge variation that's already posted in the combo thread

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.236D > whiff j.214C > 6CC > hjc j.B j.C > jc dj.CC > j.236A > j.214C [3587, 32 meter] (33 meter in PSP CS II)

This surely works and does great damage and gives you high meter back especially for a 1 Charge combo mid-screen.

However, this is not usable in corner situations as the j214C must whiff and it actually will not work on Tager as his hit box is too big for you to cross over. It is also very character specific as the timing become very, very precise and character specific to characters like Hakumen, Bang and etc.

For those occasions, here's a variation to that.

5BB > 5CC > 623A > j.236D > whiff j.214A > dash forward 6CC > hjc j.C > jc dj.CC > j.236A > j.214C [3062, 30 heat]

I've found against Valk that the 3.5k variation works flat out by goin 623C -> j214A forgoing the cross over and attacking from the front. This would otherwise hit the legs of most other characters but against Valk, it simply works everytime.

This obviously does less damage and gets slightly less heat but will work on every character in the cast.

This combo is a bit of a character specific nightmare but execution wise it's still a lot easier to pull off then her IAD combs which have very tight timing requirements.

Next, I'm going to post some starter beginner combos that are easy to do right off the bat with decent to good benefits.

[BatousaiJ]

A quick correction to make before I go on with some beginner level, easy execution combos.

The combo I posted 5BB > 5CC > 623A > j.236D > whiff j.214A > dash forward 6CC > hjc j.C > jc dj.CC > j.236A > j.214C [3062, 30 heat] does not work on everyone as I first thought.

Sometimes depending on the character j.236D will whiff making the combo non viable. You can remedy this by going 5BB > 5C > 623A > j.236D which should work.

Alrighty then, here are combos that are all about ease of execution over maximum damage and positional advantage.

I recommend starting out with these BnB if you feel like you're not quite up to snuff at connecting her tighter links.

Anywhere, No charge-

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A whiff > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [2685 damage 20 meter gain]

Just a matter of negating the use of 2CC but it makes the combo significantly easier to connect. Does not require hjc.

Anywhere, 1 charge-

5BB > 5C > 2C > 214D > 2CC > 5CC (whiff first hit) > hjc j.B > j.C > j.CC >j.236A > j.214C [3227 Damage, 31 meter]

You can make this one even easier by negating 5CC hit and continuing the rest of the combo without even hjc.

Anywhere, 1 charge-

5BB > 5CC > 623A > j.214A (whiff) > 214D > 2CC > 5CC (whiff first hit) > hjc j.B > j.C > j.CC > j.236A > j.214C [3514 damage 33 meter]

This one is a mid-level combo(high level would be the IAD variation) and the only other one charge combo that does more is the j.623D variation and as I've mentioned before, that one is a character specific nightmare. This one is consistent and will work on the whole cast. If you find yourself missing the 214D, you're either not canceling 623A fast enough or slow on inputting 214D after you land.

This 214D link is worth knowing as it will later down the line become a starter to some of the best damage corner combos and etc so get it down as best as you can.

Anywhere, 2 Charge-

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214C (whiff) > dash 2C > jc j.C > j.214D > 236D > dash 5C > 2CC > jc j.C > j.CC > 236A > j.214C [3812 damage 40 Meter]

Easy execution. But rather a disappointing amount of damage upgrade from the stand alone 1 charge combo but then again, every character in the roster has had their mid-screen combo damage reduced so it makes sense.

Corner, 2 Charge-

22D > 6CC > jc j.C> j.CC > j.214D > 5CC > 2CC > jc j.C > j.CC> j.236A > j.214C [4390 damage 38 heat]

Easy execution, solid damage and meter gain. Refer to combo guide for alternative higher damage but tougher execution combo.

More to come.

[BatousaiJ]

And since we can't just 22D mash our way into trolling people anymore outside of corners...

Bonus!

Mega Ultra Troll Astroll Redux!

Will carry from one corner to next, requires 5 charges-

(2A/5A) > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 22B > 236D > 22D > 236D > 22D > 22D > Astroll

[jellotek]

I'm having a lot of trouble with the IAD combos. I always miss the 5B after landing. Am I just not dashing fast enough? Also, is there a specific reason for using j.214A>dash 2CC instead of using j.214B or C?

...I suck, in case you can't tell. :|

[BatousaiJ]

I'm having a lot of trouble with the IAD combos. I always miss the 5B after landing. Am I just not dashing fast enough? Also, is there a specific reason for using j.214A>dash 2CC instead of using j.214B or C?

...I suck, in case you can't tell. :|

If you're whiffing 5B, that means your second hit of j.CC wasn't low enough to cause enough hit stun for you to land and get the 5B off. There's a delay between when you do the first and second in order to connect the 5B > 2CC on the ground. Don't worry though, as I said the timing on that is very specific.

I personally will opt to only use IAD combos on extended hit stun durations when the combo links aren't as tight for example, naked 214D hits, CH starters or the grand daddy the 214D CH starter which you can actually get pretty easily given it's invis frames.

Try setting the dummy up to counter hit status, do the combo off 214D, 2CC, and then the IAD follow up. Once you get used to doing so in that set up, consistently you'll get a better idea of the general timing so you can refine for the tight requirement of non CH 5BB starter.

As for the j.214A option instead of j.214B and j.214C, it's a matter of consistency.

Try the 623C > j.214C link in the corner against anyone.

The j.214C will knock them down instead of whiffing like you'd want it to. j.214A option will simply work against every character in every location. You can make the arguement that it's easier to link the 2C since you don't have to dash to link it with j.214C but the simple fact of the matter is that 2C is easy to connect for both options, it's that precise timing for that second hit of 2CC to connect that will give you the problem and that's a problem with both.

If you're comfortable using tight links like those, then use the simpler variations I posted that will be much easier to pull off consistently.

Here's another variation to one BnB I posted with a benefit of charge and position with slightly less damage and meter gain, using the old method of saving the 2nd jc to option select air dashes after j.D charge.

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A > dash 2C > hjc j.C > j.236A > j.214D > j.D cancel > option dash backwards or forward. [2578 damage 19 meter gain]

Pretty damn easy to do consistently and you can actually get a full 2 charges as you're coming down to air dash backwards and forward fairly low to the ground.

Hope this helps.

[jellotek]

Wow. Thanks. I'm still a bit iffy on things, and I don't know how much of it is because I'm playing on a dpad (Mac. I'd use my stick otherwise D:). As for the IAD combo... I just end up doing 236B>214B>22B instead. lol. It does decent enough damage, I guess. But thanks for the tips.

[BatousaiJ]

Here's some more stuff I've been fiddling around with.

There are instances where you'd do your 236B > 214B > 22B ender but the 214B will whiff due to previous hits. However, this can sometimes be remedied by going 236B > 214A > 22B instead.

For example,

Corner

6A > 5CC > 6BB > 236C > 214C > 22C [2015 damage 17 meter]

6A > 5CC > 6BB > 236C > 214C > 22C > 6C > 236B > 214A > 22B [2187 damage 27 meter]

While the damage gain is insignificant, the 10 extra meter gain is not.

This applies to plenty of combo enders in the corner where you can opt to maximize your meter gain with ease.

Here's some fun cross over tech trap tricks that requires one charge something akin to the old 214B lift cross over.

2A > 5BB > 2BB > 5C > 2C > 214D > dash 2a as they tech > cross over(or not)

2A > 5BB > 5CC > 22B > 236D > dash 2a as they tech > cross over(or not)

And of course some more pimp looking Astroll setups.

These require one charge and you have to be mid screen-

2A > 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.236D > j.214C (cross over) land > Astroll

2A > 5BB > 5CC > 623A > j.236D > j.214A land > Astroll

These are character specific, if one doesn't work on one character, the other will.

This setup just looks good and remember, anyone can troll... only a few can make it look gooooood.

[BatousaiJ]

Saw a variation of this one watching the new acho video. The guy who did it dropped it and it became a blue beat but since it looked pretty awesome, I had to check to see if it was legit.

Corner-

22D > tap 5D > 6CC > j.214D > 5CC > 2CC > IAD > j.CC(delay) > 5B > 2CC > jc j.C > jc j.CC > j.236A > j.214C > RC > (delay falling j.C) > 236236C [5589 damage]

You'd need about 70 meter or so to start but you end up getting 30 or so during the course of the combo before you even hit RC.

It's impractical and not a very good use of meter but hey, it's one of the best looking combos I've seen in CS II for Tsubaki. Fairly high execution though, so don't expect to get until you've got a good amount of practice under your belt.

[BatousaiJ]

Here's a fun 5 charge corner combo using some of the new links Tsubaki got.

Why an impractical 5 charge combo you ask?

Because why not is why!

22D > 623D > j.214D > 236D > 2CC > IAD > j.CC > 5B > 2C > 214D > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22C > 236236C [5617 damage]

[BatousaiJ]

Alrighty, stepping away from the more impractical but fun combos to more useful, realistic stuff.

Here's a new variation I learned watching some Tsubaki videos lately.

It's an extension to the one already listed in the CS 2 combo thread but it does more damage, gives more meter while giving you the same positional advantage with no real added difficulty.

Corner, 1 charge-

22D > 5C > 2CC > IAD > j.CC > 5B > 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [3673 damage 36 meter gain with option to finish with 236236C super]

While it's not max damage 1 charge combo(the 3.7k one I posted earlier is imo)the positional advantage along with great meter gain should cement this combo to be one of our BnB corner combos.

It's worth noting that 214D starter can be used instead of 22D in this instance as well and it actually ends up doing slightly more damage.

[Airk]

So... feedback from an Amateur Theoryfighter here.

A) The two combos (the 3700 damage one on the first page and this new one) are not really comparable. The 3700 damage one on page 1 starts with a 5BB, whereas this one requires you to commit to a charge right off by either going for an unblockable 22D or throwing out a 22D or 214D and hoping it hits. There's a place for both, but they're not really comparable.

B) Define "positional advantage" here? In both cases, they start in the corner and end in the corner. Is the advantage just the fact that you end the combo on the ground instead of in the air? With the new 'heavier gravity' that doesn't really seem like a meaningful difference to me, unless they have much more untechable time at the end of one combo than the other? Spell it out for the amateurs in the class?

[BatousaiJ]

The combo I posted above can also be started with 5BB > 22D > 5CC(first hit whiff) < 2CC as well it gains more meter but does a bit less damage(about 200). Will require higher execution but it's worth pointing out they're not all that different in that way.

The only significant difference is that the 3.7k one is easy to pull off while these IAD variations are not and will require a good amount of practice.

As for your second question, the positional advantage I speak of is that the enemy is sliding backwards while in the corner while you're on the ground.

When you end a combo with j.214C the enemy can more or less tech as soon as they hit the ground and they will have teched before you even land which puts you at a tough spot in two ways

1. You can't get charge safely as j.D charge as you're falling isn't safe at all.

2. The opponent can get out of the corner with ease with no opposition.

This was previously remedied somewhat by omitting the second jc in the air combo ender to allow for forward/backwards airdash but when you finish the combo with 236B > 214B > 22B(mid charge) the enemy will be sent sliding backwards for a good duration and won't be able to tech immediately which allows you three advantages

1. Charge, 5D charge safely once or twice depends on length held.

2. Continue combo with 236236C as they're sliding backwards for more damage.

3. Corner pressure. People forget that Tsubaki is a pressure character, having your opponent in the corner allows us to continue the pressure including many tech traps into air throws, 22D unblockables, overheads, tic throws and generally many safe options to continue the block string than before.

The corner is really a bad place to be against a Tsubaki more than ever and it's your job to keep them there as much as you can.

Note that this can be still be remedied if you want opting to go with j.214D ender instead of j.214C as their untechable time increases significantly but that's making a one charge combo into a 2 one just for something you could've gotten with a different combo choice.

I have a few combo variations I haven't shared just yet because these are more or less my signature combos that I haven't seen on any youtube videos that combine ease of execution with all the juicy benefits the IAD combos tend to have but I'm not sharing those until CS II's been out on consoles for a little bit.

I gotta have something special to show when I throw down with my Tsubaki brethren right?

Now back to more combo crafting~

[Airk]

The combo I posted above can also be started with 5BB > 22D > 5CC(first hit whiff) < 2CC as well it gains more meter but does a bit less damage(about 200). Will require higher execution but it's worth pointing out they're not all that different in that way.

Oh really? Good to know!

When you end a combo with j.214C the enemy can more or less tech as soon as they hit the ground and they will have teched before you even land which puts you at a tough spot in two ways

Right. So very short untech time. Got it.

Note that this can be still be remedied if you want opting to go with j.214D ender instead of j.214C as their untechable time increases significantly but that's making a one charge combo into a 2 one just for something you could've gotten with a different combo choice.

I would assume under this circumstance that you could also add some more hits for extra damage though.

Now back to more combo crafting~

Enjoy!