[CS2] Iron Tager General Discussion

[Osmond]

Did they REALLY need to nerf the 6A pull....I mean really?

It wasnt even that good to begin with, now they are just taking the piss out of him. I mean really...

" Can catch opponent on bounce with collider"

I am pretty sure we could already do that but don't because it is better and safer to do add the C filler for the extra damage and input time, so unless they changed the phyics for the bounce it is completely redundant. But hey let's not give up hope just yet...

[Nobus3r1]

hopefully its not so situational that you wouldnt see it so much, and more importantly, it would stay

Tager deal damage?!? Surely you jest. Also if they're going to reduce the pull on 6A why not just scrap magnetism entirely as at this point the only move left with decent pull is 720(?), right? /salty.

Also here's a big whoop-deee-do over being able to charge up B-sledge. Let me know when we can cancel it.

Also re: stages of grieving. I am always at the acceptance stage as I've looked at and/or played enough other games to have a pretty good idea what makes a good grappling character and as it currently stands Tager has none of those attributes.

[Osmond]

I only mentioned 6A wasn't great to begin with more like a nuisance for the opponent, so why bother with it? It seems like they are wasting of time messing with more gimmicks instead of actually trying to fix him again. In all honesty it is not like they will listen to people on an unofficial forum in a language foreign to them, but we might be able to work past these handicaps which I think is why we are here. But hey we don't know if any of this is true, remember?

[Silius]

No need to blow your load over how things look now, none of it is final.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

Ve: You going to CH3?

[FlyingVe]

Nope, gonna be in a class.

[Nobus3r1]

No need to blow your load over how things look now, none of it is final.

You're right. Things can always get worse.

[Osuna]

Kinda, but not so much, what it means is that our 5A now actually hurts to get hit by, combos are more stable, and 5C is about as good as Ragna's 5C (which I always thought it should have been).

5A hurts? Not unless the buff 5A or 5B proration a lot and the rule they followed so far is to nerf it when comboability rises.

Even with what is typically the nice path of 5C 6A 2C, assuming you are close enough, by the time you hit the collider the collider won't even do 800 damage, and the only unprorated hit is our single weakest normal. The rest eats character rate. There's an increase in base damage (5C and 6A) and proration (5C) over 3C 2B 2C, but it's not That much. the proration only improves by changing 1 p2 from 88 to 92 and you get less than 25% of the base damage difference from the stronger normals, which was less than 300 points to begin with.

So in conclusion unless there are proper unseen buffs, 5A still leads to less than it did in CS1, which was less than 1.8k.

But yay more stable combos would be nice. 5B has worse prorate but more reach than 2B and, with the change, a combo path that can use the reach.

EDIT: Oh and should the change stay there's way more incentive to block low after 5A now since 5B's higher base damage and slightly lower proration (and not needing to be followed by a 5B) the same combo's damage would be notably higher compared to 5A. If we can do something manly off a low it will dramatically improve our up close game. Of course everything depends on proration changes, I hope things work out well.

EDIT EDIT: I missed this but someone was saying that Barrier had more push back against higher level attacks and that IB pushed back even more. While this is hard to consistently measure or describe in a particularly meaningful way and I really don't know a lot about it...

It occurs to me that our 720, especially magged, has pretty good reach, If instant barrier builds up meter and pushes more than before then block strings in general might be easier for evryone to deal with and singe we don't have real ones anyway and have disproportionate ways of punishing whiffs and such, we might receive a system buff from a change like that on defense and on (relative) offense. They also can't jump while barriering, so it's use against us is even more limited. Might make the game weird though.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

Nope, gonna be in a class.

Well school is important. Have fun.

[A.X.I.S.]

Osuna I love you, where were you.

This good thing is something I wanted for 3 years.

I waited 3 years for this change.

If they keep it we get to do more things like 5A>5B>3C>5B>5C>stuff.

Also if 5B has a level increase than that means 5B>2C will work too which is nice...kinda.

[Osuna]

Osuna I love you, where were you.

This good thing is something I wanted for 3 years.

I waited 3 years for this change.

If they keep it we get to do more things like 5A>5B>3C>5B>5C>stuff.

Also if 5B has a level increase than that means 5B>2C will work too which is nice...kinda.

5B proation isn't very good, and is unlikely to be buffed, but let's forget that for now.

5B in general doesn't do very much damage on it's own. It's a B, right now it has less than half the damage of 5C. Putting a Lot of them in a combo Before the first collider is Certainly a net loss in damage. At best it is a goofy way to rack up heat if you're extending your pre colider combo with it.

5B 2C should almost never happen. Except! if you can get 5A Really close. Then maybe, because despite the heavy proration from 5A 5B (which right now is 60%ish before character rate)you're saving like 15% proration before the first collider. I don't know if it's enough for meaningful extension, but in a new game, who knows?

But 5B does less damage tha 2B and 2B can already otg/hit from outside 2C's range, so there's almost no reason to use 5B>2C over 2B>2C.

Also IB barrier buffs could be good. I think they might accidentally buff us.

EDIT: 5B is not 2C, That was a baaad typo.

[FlyingVe]

Osuna I love you, where were you.

This good thing is something I wanted for 3 years.

I waited 3 years for this change.

If they keep it we get to do more things like 5A>5B>3C>5B>5C>stuff.

Also if 5B has a level increase than that means 5B>2C will work too which is nice...kinda.

This is what I was talking about when I said the 5A hurts more. Move individual damage isn't really how I evaluate threat in a combo based fighter.

Well school is important. Have fun.

Not school even...

[A.X.I.S.]

I'm a heat gain guy and always have been.

If I don't opt for damage then I am trying to think of heat.

I can live with the negatives I just want to know that if I landed a 5A and they are too far for 3C gadget then I still want to collider.

I just look at the positives guys, it kills me but 3 years of this teaches you to not worry too much about the negatives and win with positives.

[FlyingVe]

Biggest thing for me is, I'm thinking we might be looking at our first BB game without a Tager tier. And yes, I am being very optimistic.

[Osuna]

Biggest thing for me is, I'm thinking we might be looking at our first BB game without a Tager tier. And yes, I am being very optimistic.

No, you're not being optomistic.

You're jynxing it. Way to ruin it for the rest of us Ve.

[FlyingVe]

I done gimmicked your luck.

Seriously, I'm still thinking low tier, but that's an improvement for us...

[Osmond]

That isn't completely unrealistic to imagine life without a Tager tier. They have balanced the game pretty well managing to -almost- slim things down to the two tiers, probably the bare minimum. From what I have seen, there aren't a lot of huge changes all around for most characters, accept for Noel and Makoto who are getting a toned down a bit. And maybe we can use the barrier and IBB to our advantage?

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

We need to consider how are match ups will look in CS2+. We could get a full adv. and maybe some more evens. If we get that....then I prefer to have that over having his CT damage back.

[Rick Dias PK]

Post withdrawn per clarification by C0R and Axis.

You're right. Things can always get worse.

Oh, now you're just being a pessimist. It's not like when someone pointed out Arakune gets 75-80%+ combos on Tager off of basically anything ever, that one of the ASW employees responded by publicly mocking that person and his character of choice or somethi--

"YEW TEIGA PLAYA!?"

...Nevermind.

More constructively, I hold out hopes for things going well too. I just like to think my skepticism may be justified in light of that particular incident.

Post withdrawn. I leave it up in strike-through format for reference purposes in case others make this mistake as well; please see C0R's and Axis' responses on the next page.

[The Noble Clap]

lol arhksis be trollin again. I might sub Tager in CS2:EB.

[Nobus3r1]

Oh, now you're just being a pessimist. It's not like when someone pointed out Arakune gets 75-80%+ combos on Tager off of basically anything ever, that one of the ASW employees responded by publicly mocking that person and his character of choice or somethi--

"YEW TEIGA PLAYA!?"

...Nevermind.

More constructively, I hold out hopes for things going well too. I just like to think my skepticism may be justified in light of that particular incident.

You're right. I am a pessimist and rightfully so. ASW took a bottom 4 character in CS1 and made him worse in CSII. There are about a million ways (estimated) to make Tager better. ASW hasn't implemented one of them.

[A.X.I.S.]

Noel and Makoto got bodied in loketests.

Tager might still end up bottom tier though.

I just want that damage buff.

[C0R]

Oh, now you're just being a pessimist. It's not like when someone pointed out Arakune gets 75-80%+ combos on Tager off of basically anything ever, that one of the ASW employees responded by publicly mocking that person and his character of choice or somethi--

"YEW TEIGA PLAYA!?"

...Nevermind.

More constructively, I hold out hopes for things going well too. I just like to think my skepticism may be justified in light of that particular incident.

This is getting out of hand, and I'm honestly surprised the senior members of this board haven't corrected this spread of misinformation.

Mori was responding to an idiotic request from a psr 54 netplayer's whining about Arakune being super overpowered. ARAKUNE IS NOT EVEN GOOD. No shit he's going to poke fun at the kid. Why would he design such an intricate and unique character and then balance him to the supposed low tier? Because he hates grapplers? I guess you could say that, but that's the easy out, intellectually, I'm sure you guys can come up with a better reason. Like, maybe they know something we don't, or, maybe his capacity is actually not as bad as I first thought.

This assumption about ASW hating grapplers is usually construed from an earlier question, once again from a random con scrub asking "When are you going to make tager top tier?! lololol". Of course the answer is never, why? Because when you're balancing a game, the idea is to remove tiers altogether, and have everyone on the same level. They don't want there to be a top tier, therefore, why the hell would they make tager top tier?

Baaaaaaah. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from AXIS, this whole "ughhhh I have bad matchups, I can't win... ASW is at fault!" has always just really bugged me. Yo there are no 10-0 matchups, get better or give in to the theory that you lost at the character select screen.

Grrrr. Even my normally astute and well tempered judgement is heated by this topic.

[A.X.I.S.]

Normally when I see posts like that I tend not to respond but what C0R says is correct.

Also that ASW employee was Mori himself the guy who made Blazblue a reality.

If you main a character and you are true to it then you will learn the match up no matter what, no matter the odds, no matter the cost.

[Nobus3r1]

Noel and Makoto got bodied in loketests.

Tager might still end up bottom tier though.

I just want that damage buff.

But then you'd undo Kokonoe's greatest scientific achievement: figuring out how to magnetize pillows.