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[CS2] Iron Tager General Discussion

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If you main a character and you are true to it then you will learn the match up no matter what, no matter the odds, no matter the cost.

When I read this, this played in my mind.

Why you say hype things, AXIS?

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AXIS that line was beautiful.

pktazn... your avatar... it...makes me sad... WHY SEGA? WHYYYY????

ALSO

To make sure this post don't get flagged or whatever for being off-topic, I'm reposting something that was completely ignored:

Hey Tager mains, do you think it's a good idea to increase Tager's Break Burst radius? His is too small compared to his sprite/hitbox, sometimes him bursting does not hit the opponent, whereas another character bursting at the same time on the same combo would hit the opponent with the burst.

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Tager can already pull an extra 25 heat out of his ass on bursts now thanks to the current system changes, I don't think he needs an even easier time getting 720s/MTWs...

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pktazn... your avatar... it...makes me sad... WHY SEGA? WHYYYY????

It makes me sad too. :(

Tager is a cool dude. One day you will all have your come-uppance and take over the BB world. Akira being in SBO is just the first step.

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@ Wolfcrimson: I never had a problem with what you are discussing since I always believed people had the same burst hitbox.

Thank you everyone.<3

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Tager can already pull an extra 25 heat out of his ass on bursts now thanks to the current system changes, I don't think he needs an even easier time getting 720s/MTWs...

Actually Tager doesn't benefit very much from heat compared to the rest of the cast. His RC stuff is crap and is supers are crap. The character that will get the most from the new burst meter is Jin as he can do alot with just 25 meter. Secondarily, characters with DP's, it gets them much close to that magical DP>RC point where you are almost forced to respect them.

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@ Wolfcrimson: I never had a problem with what you are discussing since I always believed people had the same burst hitbox.

Thank you everyone.<3

What I mean is, since Tager's normal hitbox is so huge, characters doing combos on Tager can do so at a range further than they would for other characters, so bursting with Tager would sometimes whiff while it wouldn't do so otherwise with other characters bursting at the same time on the same combo.

PS Screw the new heat-gaining bursts, shit don't make sense, and I hope it doesn't stick.

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It's a system change its gonna probably stick.

It makes some sort of sense, it adds a bigger come back factor with burst.

Its a nice trade off on green bursts too.

You lose half your primers but get back 1/4 of your heat.

Why burst at those points? It just doesn't seem like a good idea if they are not close enough to get hit by the burst.

Edit: its confirmed! 5B has a level increase.

That means we have a different route after colliderx2 I guess.

colliderx2>5B>5C>6A>collider. more heat gain!?<3

I won't be surprised if we lose enders doing this though.

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Why burst at those points? It just doesn't seem like a good idea if they are not close enough to get hit by the burst.

Dude... even optimism has a limit.

I detailed an important piece of information in my post which you missed, which is: Other character get out if they burst at that point, but Tager doesn't.

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A man went into the doctor moved his arm around and exclaimed, "Doc, my arm hurts when I do this." The doctor replied, "Then stop doing that."

But I do get your point, Tager's options are limited by a system mechanic. The problem is, it just a result of him being big, we can't really make him smaller, and making his burst hitbox bigger could have all kinds of unwanted implications, on top of being a very unintuitive change.

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Dude... even optimism has a limit.

I detailed an important piece of information in my post which you missed, which is: Other character get out if they burst at that point, but Tager doesn't.

Got an example of a combo like that?

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Got an example of a combo like that?

None really come to mind, but I saw it happen in vids I watched.

FlyingVe: Exactly, don't you think it's unfair? Also, what kind of unwanted implications did you have in mind, because I can't think of any?

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Well, Tager's burst box being bigger would make it harder for other players to judge where the burst will be. As much as it sucks, I would rather maintain the purity of the system mechanics than arbitrarily buff Tager.

I didn't have any in mind, but typically when there are exceptions like that, it results in stupidity and/or general badness.

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Well, Tager's burst box being bigger would make it harder for other players to judge where the burst will be. As much as it sucks, I would rather maintain the purity of the system mechanics than arbitrarily buff Tager.

I didn't have any in mind, but typically when there are exceptions like that, it results in stupidity and/or general badness.

But... burst is a mechanic that's used to get the opponent off of you. Tager having a proportionate burst radius/hitbox ratio that allows him the same benefits of bursting as the rest of the cast would result in stupidity? I don't follow.

Edit: Edited phrasing of sentence.

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But... burst is a mechanic that's used to get the opponent off of you. Tager having a proportionate burst radius/hitbox ratio that allows him the same benefits of bursting as the rest of the cast would result in stupidity? I don't follow.

Edit: Edited phrasing of sentence.

I don't think it is that big of a problem to start with. The cases where it happens are probably rare if you have trouble coming up with an example of the top of your head.

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But... burst is a mechanic that's used to get the opponent off of you. Tager having a proportionate burst radius/hitbox ratio that allows him the same benefits of bursting as the rest of the cast would result in stupidity? I don't follow.

Edit: Edited phrasing of sentence.

A mechanic (or anything in a FG really), isn't defined by it's function, but rather by it's action.

In this case The mechanic i that a burst is X big and does X. If you changed it especially for Tager, it would, burst is X big and does X, except with Tager where it is Y big and does X. They are different.

A good example of something like this gone screwy is Ammy's throw range in MvC3.

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So your point is that because it's different, it could go wrong, based on previous limited experiences of variances in other games, so just to be safe, it should stay the same?

That makes no sense. A change is seen by what merits and demerits it has, not past experiences. All I'm saying, is that his burst should not be inferior to others' because of his size.

Oh, and throw ranges differ in BB between the characters. Tager has the largest throw range of all. Yet it's fine.

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To reply to three people in one post...

Nobus3r1: I was being somewhat sarcastic with my remarks. I generally agree; pessimism regarding Tager is probably justified.

This is getting out of hand, and I'm honestly surprised the senior members of this board haven't corrected this spread of misinformation.

Mori was responding to an idiotic request from a psr 54 netplayer's whining about Arakune being super overpowered. (snip by responder)

Grrrr. Even my normally astute and well tempered judgement is heated by this topic.

C0R, thank you for your reply. I apologize; with the volume rather low in that video clip in question, and little context accompanying it when I was shown said video, what context I was provided by others at the time seemed apt. It seems I was missing some important details, and I apologize. I've edited my original post to denote this. I'll stop making references to this incident since it's apparently incorrect, in any case.

Normally when I see posts like that I tend not to respond but what C0R says is correct.

Also that ASW employee was Mori himself the guy who made Blazblue a reality.

If you main a character and you are true to it then you will learn the match up no matter what, no matter the odds, no matter the cost.

Sorry for hitting a bad nerve, in that case, re: 'posts like that.' Per my response to C0R above, I made it with what seems to be a lack of certain important information.

As for the bit about maining a character, I generally agree. Please understand; I am not asking for Tager to be handed a string of 10-0 matchups. I am fine with learning to creatively deal with a character's short-comings. However, that Tager has had a few matchups where he barely gets to play, three game versions in a row, does cause me to have what I feel is understandable caution about how they view this character. No, I don't specifically subscribe to the "they hate Tager" conspiracy theory... but I do think they may be worried about making him 'too good' and err on too much caution as a result. Think of how many bad players rage-quit to even a minimally competent Tager, for example. Now imagine if Tager was actually a decent character; would that effect be magnified, hurting the product? I wonder if that's ASW's concern here.

When I mention "matchups he doesn't even get to play", I broadly refer to v-13 in BBCT, and Hazama in BBCS1 and 2. Those are cases where even when you study the match and try creative solutions, chances are you still barely get a chance to fight your opponent. I would like to see what ASW plans to do about such 'design-level' concerns for Tager; there's a difference between "the heavy grappler gets zoned out by the projectile character, it's a bad matchup by design" and "the grappler doesn't even get to play."

Please understand, despite my harsh remarks... I'm trying to post in good faith. I've apologized for the "yew teiga playa" post and won't make that mistake again. There is just a point where justified worry takes hold regarding loctests and balance changes. Thank you, and C0R, for explaining things to me in any case.

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No my point was that the system mechanics are the system mechanics and shouldn't be made character specific.

My example was how it can go wrong, not proof that it will.

You BB throw example doesn't work, in BB throwing is a character specific move, in MvC3 everybody throw range is the same... except Ammy. In addition, the throw mechanics are different so the comparison doesn't work.

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You BB throw example doesn't work, in BB throwing is a character specific move, in MvC3 everybody throw range is the same... except Ammy. In addition, the throw mechanics are different so the comparison doesn't work.

Oh OK, I didn't think of my example that way.

No my point was that the system mechanics are the system mechanics and shouldn't be made character specific.

That's what I have trouble understanding: why not? Are you breeding system mechanics and trying to get a pureblood system mechanic? It's a system mechanic that does X action to serve X function. But because of Y variable in one of the characters (Tager's big size), X action to serve X function is not sufficient, you get Z function (just Tager flailing his arms). So, X action needs to be made to Y action to serve X function. Everybody else has X function, so why can't Tager?

It's reaaaally simple, all this posting is completely unnecessary.

Maybe because Tager has other stuff about him that're shit now you're not seeing my point. But please try to understand, it's /headdesk-inducing that I have to explain this.

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