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seven215

Noob question about blocking..and recovery after or during being comboed.

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Ok.. So I consider myself to be a beginner when it comes to these new age games. I'm having a major problem.. I've looked around for information on this subject.. But I can't find anything. So..here is the situation.. I'm getting comboed...and the combo counter turns blue. That means that I missed an opportunity to escape. Everything I have read says that mashing to get away is very bad. So what am I supposed to to? I know you hold back or forward plus any attack button to instant roll forward back or neutral. How am I supposed to know when to do that without mashing? Should I just hold block until I automatically start blocking again? please don't bash me.. I really want to learn this game.. :gonk:

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Yes, mashing to get out is very bad. Is this early or late into the combo? If it's early, this can be helped by going into training mode and seeing what combos into what. It's not as bad (but still bad) to mash early because the pickup could lead to huge damage if you don't tech. However, late into the combo, those random moves that hit you won't do nearly as much damage. At that point, hit a button only when you think it's safe. An example of this, good opponents will try a meaty for the people that just mash. Try to tech during the active frames of the meaty and bring it back to neutral.

Edited by MashThat5A

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when people say mashing to get away is bad, they mean while you're under pressure, not while being combo'd. while your opponent is comboing you, mash on A B and C. as soon as you notice you've teched (meaning your opponent dropped the combo or the combo ended) stop mashing and block.

it's worth noting that there are situations where it's advantageous to not tech, but it's generally a good idea to tech as soon as possible.

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Honestly, I'd tell you the reverse of what MashThat5A said. If you're learning, mash to hell and back. Maybe you'll get out of a combo, or maybe you're playing someone who is good enough to go for some sort of reset. If the former, remember where that was, and selectively mash there in the future. If the latter, well, you were probably going to lose anyway, but now you know when NOT to mash in that combo.

There's no real substitute for experience, but you won't GET any experience if you're afraid to try to mash out. Just resign yourself to losing some matches while you figure things out.

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That's just if you're getting combo'd in the air though. If you're in a combo and you're standing or crouching (and not in a stagger state) you shouldn't be mashing.

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That's a good point; If you're just getting hit while standing, you should just be holding downback.

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An idea I got from Melty Blood is try tapping to the combo. In Melty Blood tapping to your opponent's hits in the combo would reduce the amount of damage you took from the combo... a benefit that would only apply to Melty Blood.

However, if you try to press a button JUST BEFORE another attack hits, it wouldn't be mashing while potentially getting that small time frame that a combo would be techable. 5A/2A mash by the opponent makes this really hard to do, but then they face the proration of 5A or 2A in their combo. You'd also have to be slightly familiar with their combos.

Just an idea, but the key thing is to think about when and how you're going to tech (forward roll will get you out of the corner, but leaves you more vulnerable than neutral teching, and back teching puts you closer to the corner, etc.).

Just an alternative to mashing, less button presses I suppose.

(note this doesn't apply to combos while standing, as mentioned before)

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when people say mashing to get away is bad, they mean while you're under pressure, not while being combo'd. while your opponent is comboing you, mash on A B and C. as soon as you notice you've teched (meaning your opponent dropped the combo or the combo ended) stop mashing and block.

Only use A and B. Using C gets you TRMed.

Delrian's advice is really good, but it means you'll need to either watch some videos or go into training mode and learn the timing between gattlings and links for each of the characters. Not saying it's bad, but it's work.

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delrian's advice is very fine for intermediates (see also: advanced input/5 frame buffer.)

Edited by zreb

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Only use A and B. Using C gets you TRMed.

Just to be clear, since you're a beginner. TRM means Throw Reject Miss. The reason people say not to mash in air combos is because when you try to tech using B and C, even if you don't press them at the same time, the game's frame buffer interprets it as a throw attempt and if they try to purple throw you, you'll get a throw reject miss. And purple throws REALLY hurt.

But if you do this then mashing isn't so bad. You still need to react to purple grabs though.

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Wow.. Thanks to everyone for the replies.. Really answers a lot of my questions. So.. This is what I get...

If I'm being comboed on the ground, just block. If being air comboed, it is ok to mash on A,B. I like that idea about

Hitting buttons right before being hit. Very reminiscent of the option select crouch tech from SSF4. I will definitely try all this. Slightly off topic.. So I'm blocking my opponents moves on the ground.. I forget where I read it.. But I read that it's ok to hold up back + barrier block ( I think I heard someone call in "chicken blocking" ) is it ok to do this? I heard that doing this will be less viable in CS2.

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I've heard "chicken blocking" referred to as "netplay tactics"... You're avoiding blocking mixups by going into the air and barrier blocking air unblockables. Typically frowned upon, but a valid tactic... I guess.

Reason why it won't be as effective in CS2 is that more normals are air unblockable, which will wear down your barrier gauge fast. You'll be taking 150% damage AND vulnerable to air unblockable moves in the air.

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Chicken blocking is alright to a certain extent. It may be alright to use against bad players, but not necessarily against good players. Personally, I air throw chicken blockers, and depending on how good the person is that I'm fighting against (such as if they tech the air throw or not), that shit can lead into some respectable damage on my part as well as some oki to work with.

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Aside from the things mentioned, one of the problems with trying to jump out of pressure is that jumping has vulnerable startup of (usually) 4 frames. If you hold up+back rather than waiting for a gap in the opponents pressure to jump out, you'll find yourself getting hit a lot.

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Reason why it won't be as effective in CS2 is that more normals are air unblockable, which will wear down your barrier gauge fast. You'll be taking 150% damage AND vulnerable to air unblockable moves in the air.

You're thinking of primer breaking moves that wears down the barrier gauge faster, the more air blockable is for people who tries to randomly jump out pressure and to force them to barrier more when blocking in the air

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I thought I remembered reading you couldn't instant barrier jump in CS2. Therefore allowing the multitude of new air unblockable moves to be more effective. This was a long time ago and I haven't really been keeping up on CS2. Is this the case or no?

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You're thinking of primer breaking moves that wears down the barrier gauge faster, the more air blockable is for people who tries to randomly jump out pressure and to force them to barrier more when blocking in the air

Oops. I guess since they're forced to barrier they'll be spending more barrier gauge in using it... but not as much as I was thinking it would. Thanks for the correction.

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Basically, it's a tactic, but not a very good one, especially if you don't know the frame data of your opponent's characters. Learning frame data might be a little too much for you to handle at this point.

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I thought I remembered reading you couldn't instant barrier jump in CS2. Therefore allowing the multitude of new air unblockable moves to be more effective. This was a long time ago and I haven't really been keeping up on CS2. Is this the case or no?

I'm pretty sure there are a few frames in CS1 during the start of a jump that you can't barrier.

Basically, it's a tactic, but not a very good one, especially if you don't know the frame data of your opponent's characters. Learning frame data might be a little too much for you to handle at this point.

IB > barrier jump is not a bad tactic if use it in the right place. Even I know that and I'm not really into the game.

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Update: it's amazing how a little bit of knowledge makes such a huge diffrence. So today I played some dude who usually whoops on me pretty bad. Don't get me wrong.. He still whopped on me. Just not as bad :). . I was able to instant roll.. And get out of broken combos. It felt like I was playing a totally different game. Thank you to all who helped me.

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Update: it's amazing how a little bit of knowledge makes such a huge diffrence.

You don't even know yet how right you are. Keep in mind that every little detail about the mechanics of the game are here: http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/

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IB > barrier jump is not a bad tactic if use it in the right place. Even I know that and I'm not really into the game.

Yea, that's a good tactic, but just holding up-back and praying...not so much.

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You don't even know yet how right you are. Keep in mind that every little detail about the mechanics of the game are here: http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/

OK, I was in the same situation as OP, and I've read the part of your link about teching.

Basically, what I understand from this thread is that, on the ground, one should hold down+back and that gives :

"You will automatically perform a Quick Roll if you do not pick any roll after a certain amount of time (??? frames). "

My questions are:

- does "automatically" mean "as soon as the combo counter becomes blue" ?

- why not performing a "Quick Roll" by mashing A,B earlier ?

- "Neutral Roll" seems a great option, according to the invuln frames. Why not using it (by mashing A,B I suppose) ?

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OK, I was in the same situation as OP, and I've read the part of your link about teching.

Basically, what I understand from this thread is that, on the ground, one should hold down+back and that gives :

"You will automatically perform a Quick Roll if you do not pick any roll after a certain amount of time (??? frames). "

My questions are:

- does "automatically" mean "as soon as the combo counter becomes blue" ?

- why not performing a "Quick Roll" by mashing A,B earlier ?

No, it means if someone was beating on you and you land on the ground, eventually you will get up via quick roll. If you were on the ground and you pressed down (2) + A, B, or C, then you will do the quick roll earlier.

- "Neutral Roll" seems a great option, according to the invuln frames. Why not using it (by mashing A,B I suppose) ?

All the rolls have their advantages, neutral roll has the most invulnerability, but you're in the same place. Your opponent can act on this by applying pressure again or by throwing out a move you need to block after the invulnerability is over (this is called a meaty attack, because the startup frames happen while you're invulnerable, and the move becomes active right as the invulnerability goes away). If someone decides to use a command grab whenever you neutral tech, you probably wouldn't be able to jump out in time (so even if you're good at blocking meaty attacks, neutral teching isn't always the best option). Thus there are situations where a back roll or a quick roll is better suited, and there are situations where they are worse off. It depends on your opponent, so you should think about (and change often) they way you tech.

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I think you're a little confused. The Quick Roll/Neutral Roll/Forward/Backward Roll are for when you've been knocked down. Not when you are in a combo (Usually, anyway. It's technically possible for combos to continue while you're lying on the ground.). If a combo has become blue, it's actually already too late for you to try to escape it - there will be a smaller number beneath the combo counter that tells you what hit you could have escaped on (by pressing A/B/C and maybe a direction.)

Neutral Roll is, in fact, generally the preferred option for recovering under pressure - quick roll is only rarely used. You automatically quick roll if you are lying on the ground (and not getting hit) for more than like, 68 frames or something, but that's mostly just so your character doesn't lie on the ground forever if you never push any buttons.

Also, I believe that holding downback while pushing A/B/C will actually give you a backwards roll, not a quick roll.

Ugh. Someone else explain, I am failing.

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