StarGazer Report post Posted January 15, 2012 What I got from our dear JP players RG: 4.5~4.0 JI: 5.0 NO: 5.0 TG: 4.5 TK: 4.5~4.0 RC: ? AR: ? LI: ? CA: ? BA: ? HK: 4.5 LA: 4.5 TS: ? HZ: ? MU: 4.0 MK: 5.0 PL: 4.5 VA: ? RE: ? Side notes from what I read: Mu match up is worse than Lambda Relius is a good Match up for Makoto! Valkenhayn match up is VERY bad People still QQ about Noel D mashing Ragna is the Fu character in this game Tsubaki is worse than Makoto tried to search there http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi...48/1305812524/ ? Thats where I got these numbers from, Search the last posts with the Relius Kanji 父 Father Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 15, 2012 NO: 5.0 People still QQ about Noel D mashing Dude I'm telling you, new 4D makes people hate life. It's the only thing Noel has in the Valk matchup, if he's not careful with wolf, it's a free fatal. Man, I need to NETPLAY Omni when EX comes out, because he's the only Makoto that teaches me the matchup, if he picks Valk though I'mma yell at him, I fight enough Valk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OmniSScythe Report post Posted January 16, 2012 What I got from our dear JP players RG: 4.5~4.0 JI: 5.0 NO: 5.0 TG: 4.5 TK: 4.5~4.0 HK: 4.5 LA: 4.5 MU: 4.0 MK: 5.0 PL: 4.5 Side notes from what I read: Mu match up is worse than Lambda Relius is a good Match up for Makoto! Valkenhayn match up is VERY bad People still QQ about Noel D mashing Figured most of this, especially the bold. Most retained the same sense of the CS2 match up since her tools work the same way while others relied on the fact that she flat out out damaged them or dragged them the corner for constant pressure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaperSides Report post Posted January 16, 2012 Dude I'm telling you, new 4D makes people hate life. It's the only thing Noel has in the Valk matchup, if he's not careful with wolf, it's a free fatal. Man, I need to NETPLAY Omni when EX comes out, because he's the only Makoto that teaches me the matchup, if he picks Valk though I'mma yell at him, I fight enough Valk. I didn't import CSEX, so I don't know, but how has 4D changed? To me it was already a pretty godly hitconfirm in CS2.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 16, 2012 I didn't import CSEX, so I don't know, but how has 4D changed? To me it was already a pretty godly hitconfirm in CS2.. The short version is: It beats way more stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaperSides Report post Posted January 16, 2012 The short version is: It beats way more stuff. Oh I see... this pleases me. :3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyApe Report post Posted January 16, 2012 As soon I EX comes out I'm doing a FT 100 with CrazyApe, should be enough to learn every match up for everyone (that changed). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarGazer Report post Posted January 16, 2012 I am starting the guide, please if you guys spoted any mistake (english is not my native obviously) just tell me, or anything you want to add or edit just say it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excelence Report post Posted January 17, 2012 5 guard primer instead of 6. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted January 17, 2012 Pros: + Good high low Mix up i don't think she really have good mixups, most chars have better, even Ragna have crossup dp or gh rc. But her jab pressure and frametraps/ability to reset blockstrings are respectable, if your opponent don't have infernal divider(and 50% for RC). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eshi Report post Posted January 17, 2012 i don't think she really have good mixups, most chars have better, even Ragna have crossup dp or gh rc. But her jab pressure and frametraps/ability to reset blockstrings are respectable, if your opponent don't have infernal divider(and 50% for RC).I like how makoto's overhead is, like, the only fucking overhead in extend that can be emergency teched on air hit now that most characters got their overhead buffed. (・ー・) based on casuals matches, her new overhead is ridiculously easy to block now that it's so slow and should be used sparingly. her frame traps are way stronger. In regards to match-ups: Carl got quite a few buffs and is more solid than ever. I do feel like Makoto has some quite useful tools for dealing with his neutral game, however. I'd say 4.5 - 5.5 his favor just because his pressure is so good. Ragna is a bitch but may not be worse than 4.5. His DP is gigantic and his pokes are better but with experience and patience I know she can handle him, neutral game is tough though. Tsubaki is most likely even. They both play quite similarly except Makoto isn't meter reliant. I need to study the new frame data for them to really know. Litchi feels even for now. It may take a while for her character to develop, but her corner oki and midscreen abare got huge nerfs, like Makoto. Neutral isn't any different from CS2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarGazer Report post Posted January 17, 2012 http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1326292644/49 RG: 4.0 JI: 5.0 NO: 4.0 TG: 4.0 TK: 4.5 RC: 4.0 AR: 4.0 LI: 4.5 CA: 4.0 BA: 4.5 HK: 4.0 LA: 4.0 TS: -.- HZ: 4.5 MU: 3.5 MK: -.- VK: 4.0 PL: 4.5 RE: 4.5 Total: -13.5 He says, he need more experience with Tsubaki to tell the match up. Seriously, don't buy any of this, Makoto is bad but this is just way too MUCH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 17, 2012 Noel's overhead is still emergency techable on air hit, unless you get them REALLY high, in which case you can combo into 6C, but that's damn near impossible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarGazer Report post Posted January 17, 2012 i don't think she really have good mixups, most chars have better, even Ragna have crossup dp or gh rc. But her jab pressure and frametraps/ability to reset blockstrings are respectable, if your opponent don't have infernal divider(and 50% for RC). How come her mix ups were broken in CS2 and now they are bad? The only thing that keeps Makoto from being F-tier is her 6B also Mako-Chan mixups have solid rewards too. Makoto pressure is nothing special, but since it happens really fast, people tend to respect it afraid of being hit by a random frame trap. the only fucking overhead in extend that can be emergency teched on air hit now that most characters got their overhead buffed iirc only Ragna and Jin Overheads got this buff... and Carl too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted January 17, 2012 How come her mix ups were broken in CS2 and now they are bad? The only thing that keeps Makoto from being F-tier is her 6B also Mako-Chan mixups have solid rewards too. Makoto pressure is nothing special, but since it happens really fast, people tend to respect it afraid of being hit by a random frame trap. damage was broken, not mixups :O and 6B is 22F now. Valk, Rachel, Carl, curse Arakune have broken mixups, Makoto isn't even near to them. and reward 2k midscreen for low and 3k for overhead.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarGazer Report post Posted January 17, 2012 damage was broken, not mixups :O and 6B is 22F now. Makoto is designed to dish out high damage. nothing was broken good except her PF confirms, also 2C was able to dish out 7600 from midscreen with no need for fatal counter and it's meterless too Valk, Rachel, Carl, curse Arakune have broken mixups, Makoto isn't even near to them. Makoto Mix ups are good but not retarded as these guys xD and reward 2k midscreen for low and 3k for overhead.. Come on the damage is good. People asked for a nerf and her it is, only 400 got substracted from each combo lol. And you just said her damage was broken, so Makoto reward should be reasonable now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 17, 2012 Makoto's damage was way broken, I never even did the optimal combos and I still averaged 4k everytime I connected with an attack into oki. I was doing essentially the same damage as my optimal Noel combos, give or take. But now I do kinda feel like her damage is too low, her combos look pretty sexy, but she's lucky to break 4k off of a good corner hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StarGazer Report post Posted January 17, 2012 6B in Corner 4500 ---> now 4000~3800 2A in Corner 3500 ---> now 3000 In midscreen its the same we can get more damage now of crouch confirms CS2 Makoto problem was this I never even did the optimal combos and I still averaged 4k everytime I connected with an attack into oki. I do way much harder stuffs just to get more 300~500 damage. CS2 was cheap her combos look pretty sexy This... I will never be able to understand you guys everyone with this godlike reaction to her new changes:psyduck: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 17, 2012 I hate 2C > 236A~D That is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted January 17, 2012 Makoto is designed to dish out high damage. nothing was broken good except her PF confirms, also 2C was able to dish out 7600 from midscreen with no need for fatal counter and it's meterless too. she could finish you in 2 combos, optimal combos and meter gain was too stupid, 2A>6k lol her midscreen combos was much better, with 50% for rc midscreen combo turned into corner combo and even without heat combos was scarry. And DP with PF into 4500, it was too stupid) i was like this when i got hit by makoto in cs2 I hate 2C > 236A~D That is all. you have to delay 236A, i had problems with it for 5 minuts) have tried some combos 5CC>5D>2D>236A~D>5CC>j.B>j.D>2C>214A~C~B>5CC>ender for about 5k without heat and 6k with heat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 17, 2012 I do ;w; But it seems really inconsistent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reisi Report post Posted January 18, 2012 2C > 236A~D feels harder on small hitboxes, having problems with characters like Noel. :x In regards to her high/low mix-up: It's really bad. The only true mix-up we have is 5A/2A, since you can go into 2B or 6B and of course 214A~C~X. Just a little something: 5B goes into 2B, but not into 6B 2B goes into nothing (2C is too sloooow) 6A goes into 6B, but not into 2B (nor 2C) 5C© goes into 6B, but not into 2B (2C is still slow) 6BC goes into 2C (see above) Did I miss something? Not saying her overall mix-up is terrible, but going for throws feels so much more rewarding now. Get people afraid of that and make them eat either a TRM or frametrap your opponents if they get antsy and start pushing buttons. Also, in regards to her neutral game: Am I the only one getting outpoked by everything? Makoto's 5B feels so much worse right now. It might be related to her dash-nerf, but it feels like it's entire hitbox changed and not for the better. Probably have to employ more 6C for CS:E. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Only characters I've practiced on so far were Ragna, Noel, and Bang(Challenge mode). And it seems like no matter how much I delay I get no difference, like sometimes I'll hit it exactly right, but they wont get hit by the level 3 projectile, and tech before I can move. Like they will get hit by the orb, and then the fist, but the projectile wont connect right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reisi Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Are you doing 5D > 662D > 2C > 236A~D? You need to be close enough for all the hits of the orb to connect. Alternatively, you could also do 662C. That is what was irritating me at first. If that's not it, you probably have to let them drop even further before the orb connects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 18, 2012 I've tried both variations. and If I delay the 236A too much, 2C wont cancel into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites