[CSE-CP] Tsubaki Yayoi Simple Questions and Answers thread! Version 3!

[DanTheTimid]

I derped, I ment 623A haha. That was my bad I say 2C is the superior anti-air for anything though I could be biased because I like that move lol.

Ah, no problem ^_^

And yeah, in my limited experience 2C seems easily the best anti-air, since I don't think her 623x is air unblockable but I believe 2C is, and 2C seems to have pretty good upper body invulnerability, and it seems fairly easy to combo out of on hit. Only thing I might consider is Airk's suggestion to try 623B if they're way over head since on characters who have an air move that comes down quickly some times I get tricked into doing 2C to early and they move over the attack and hit me from behind during the wiff recovery but it sounds like 623B would help prevent that.

[Airk]

Just a few points:

214B no longer has projectile invulnerability, per se. All 214X moves have head/body invulnerability, with A starting up the fastest and C having the most. D has the advantage of being the only one where the invulnerability frames last until the move hits. This means you can go through all kinds of crazy stuff like supers and DPs with it, because really, for the most part, the only attacks that have foot attribute are crouching normals and a few weird projectile type moves (Jin's 2D for example)

It's pretty safe to ignore 236236D, yes.

For 236X - if you do these moves close to their max ranges ("Very close" for A, "midscreen" for B, or "not-quite full screen" for C) you will be at frame advantage - this means that even though you are right up against your opponent, your jab will START before they get out of blockstun, so you will hit them before they hit you...and start your own big combo. Even if you space these moves poorly, if you just block (and watch out for throws) after impact, you will be safe 95% of the time. (Be careful doing this on characters with command grabs though. With Target in particular, it will be safer to hold UP so that you jump out of the way of any potential punishes. At least, until they figure that out and start "countering" with an anti-air...)

When trying to pass through projectiles, any of the 214X series will work, but the timing is different on each of them - and none of them are immediate. You may want to consult the frame data for more info. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Frame data is the only part of this game I'm really good at. :P

Regarding 22X - there is sortof a reason to use each version. 22A comes out very fast (relatively), being only 1 frame slower than 5B, and it has slightly better range. On a standard hit, it'll get you knockdown and a moment to charge, on a counterhit, it'll wallbounce and you can do a 5B>2CC>stuff combo. It's actually not a terrible way to START the round, though you need to be careful of people jumping over it. 22B can theoretically destroy projectiles, though it's nowhere near as good as it used to be. 22C and 22D are going to be your staples here though.

623A vs 623D - the D version uppercut is not considered a projectile, so it works better against Hakumen (who can cut projectiles) and Tager (whose Sledge move is projectile immune). Otherwise, well, 214D has better proration, so if you're looking to combo off it, you'll do significantly more damage off a 623D starter than a 623A, but in general you won't get much damage anyway, unless you're prepared to burn 1-2 extra charges. Best used if you can finish someone off with it.

2C vs 623X - 623A can be air blocked without barrier, 623B/C/D and 2C all require barrier to be air blocked. 623B is a good choice against moves that screw up your 2C timing - the ones that always get me are Arakune's j.B (spikey!), Tager's j.2C (People's Elbow), and Makoto's j.2C (Furry Tail). 623B will beat all of those clean unless you do it at the last moment. 2C DOES have a good period of upper body invulnerability, however, and leads into better damage than any of the DPs, so use it when possible.

[SolxBaiken]

So would it be fair to say as a beginner I should just ignore this move all together? Also, in scenarios where you use it for the invincibility, wouldn't it be better to use the 236236C super, or is this assuming they're at a range where that won't connect? In any case thank you very much for your thoughts on the supers.

lol I guess I should've mentioned, another bad thing about the 236236 supers is they often don't trade to well, alot of attacks can see you getting knocked back, which is ok if you have the life lead, but not so much if you're low on health

lol my first fight with Dusk we both did our supers and they both connected, it was clear that his went through mine but we both got hit and I ended up winning the match because he had less health than me :3

Just one of many situations you can find yourself into XD

214214 is definitely for the confident and masterful, lol sometimes I forget I have it .__. I mainly use it to try and look cool B< But even as you get higher to master Tsubaki it just doesn't seem all that worth it, but don't let that discourage you if you wish to master it! Show us the true power of Install! = w=

[DanTheTimid]

214B no longer has projectile invulnerability, per se. All 214X moves have head/body invulnerability, with A starting up the fastest and C having the most. D has the advantage of being the only one where the invulnerability frames last until the move hits. This means you can go through all kinds of crazy stuff like supers and DPs with it, because really, for the most part, the only attacks that have foot attribute are crouching normals and a few weird projectile type moves (Jin's 2D for example)

When trying to pass through projectiles, any of the 214X series will work, but the timing is different on each of them - and none of them are immediate. You may want to consult the frame data for more info. If you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. Frame data is the only part of this game I'm really good at. :P

Definitely interesting looking at the frame data. Based on that it seems like the reason I had no success with 214a and 214c is because A isn't invulnerable long enough to easily pass through many projectiles and C gets its invulnerability so late that you basically have to be psychic and predict the projectile is coming before they even throw it, which is a shame because most of the time I want to pass through a projectile I'm at such a range that I'd either want to only move forward a little bit, or move far enough to hit them, what A and C could have done, where as B can pass through the projectile on reaction but moves me just far enough to be in range of being punished on wiff, but not far enough to hit them. D seems like its invulnerability is almost the same as Bs, though starting a little bit later making it a little harder to use on reaction, but its not that much slower to get the invulnerability and the range should be enough to hit them so I guess I'll try to use that when being zoned and having charge.

Would you say that's an accurate assessment and a good plan? Do you yourself use 214D to approach when being zoned with projectiles?

2C vs 623X - 623A can be air blocked without barrier, 623B/C/D and 2C all require barrier to be air blocked. 623B is a good choice against moves that screw up your 2C timing - the ones that always get me are Arakune's j.B (spikey!), Tager's j.2C (People's Elbow), and Makoto's j.2C (Furry Tail). 623B will beat all of those clean unless you do it at the last moment. 2C DOES have a good period of upper body invulnerability, however, and leads into better damage than any of the DPs, so use it when possible.

Awesome, those are pretty much exactly the attacks I've been struggling against, with the addition of Rachel's dress drill move as well (623B would work well against that as well too, correct?), definitely plan to try 623B against those attacks from now on. Other wise will definitely be sticking to 2C for all my anti-air needs.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and advice, you, and this whole forum so far really, have been tremendously helpful!

[Airk]

Definitely interesting looking at the frame data. Based on that it seems like the reason I had no success with 214a and 214c is because A isn't invulnerable long enough to easily pass through many projectiles and C gets its invulnerability so late that you basically have to be psychic and predict the projectile is coming before they even throw it, which is a shame because most of the time I want to pass through a projectile I'm at such a range that I'd either want to only move forward a little bit, or move far enough to hit them, what A and C could have done, where as B can pass through the projectile on reaction but moves me just far enough to be in range of being punished on wiff, but not far enough to hit them. D seems like its invulnerability is almost the same as Bs, though starting a little bit later making it a little harder to use on reaction, but its not that much slower to get the invulnerability and the range should be enough to hit them so I guess I'll try to use that when being zoned and having charge.

It's really a question of what projectile we're talking about; Faster moving projectiles can be dodged easily enough with 214A, while slower ones can be deal with via 214C. Really though, you shouldn't be counting on these moves to get you around projectiles, except perhaps when someone does one at very close range.

Would you say that's an accurate assessment and a good plan? Do you yourself use 214D to approach when being zoned with projectiles?

I don't, but I still pretty much suck; I think if you're within range to hit them with 214D, then it's a valid tactic, but from outside of that range, you're better off doing a jump forwards barrier or just trying to instant block. Patience is key when dealing with heavy projectile users.

Awesome, those are pretty much exactly the attacks I've been struggling against, with the addition of Rachel's dress drill move as well (623B would work well against that as well too, correct?), definitely plan to try 623B against those attacks from now on. Other wise will definitely be sticking to 2C for all my anti-air needs.

Should work against the drill-dress, but unless Rachel is doing that from great height, you should just be able to block and punish the drill dress. (The higher up she is when she starts, the better the properties of the move are.) That's not true for SpikeySpikey or Furry Tail (though you might be able to punish the People's Elbow.)

Thanks again for all your thoughts and advice, you, and this whole forum so far really, have been tremendously helpful!

Tsubaki forums: Generally more pleasant and welcoming than the rest of Dustloop. :P

[pktazn]

Awesome, those are pretty much exactly the attacks I've been struggling against, with the addition of Rachel's dress drill move as well (623B would work well against that as well too, correct?), definitely plan to try 623B against those attacks from now on. Other wise will definitely be sticking to 2C for all my anti-air needs.

Your 2C should be able to beat out Rachel's drill dress if they're doing it outside a combo even if they use wind to speed up, provided you see it coming. As I said in the match-up thread though, be aware that after Rachel reaches a certain height if you don't block/counter that j.6C before it hits you, it will always be a fatal counter wind or no wind used when she's going down.

[Dusk Thanatos]

623A vs 623D - the D version uppercut is not considered a projectile, so it works better against Hakumen (who can cut projectiles) and Tager (whose Sledge move is projectile immune). Otherwise, well, 214D has better proration, so if you're looking to combo off it, you'll do significantly more damage off a 623D starter than a 623A, but in general you won't get much damage anyway, unless you're prepared to burn 1-2 extra charges. Best used if you can finish someone off with it..

Err, if you want to wakeup DP and have charge, well... 623D is definitely superior because it has more invul, and the invul lasts until the hit. DPs aren't about damage, they're about saying GET OFF ME PLEASE. 623D does that a /lot/ better than 623A.

[DanTheTimid]

Err, if you want to wakeup DP and have charge, well... 623D is definitely superior because it has more invul, and the invul lasts until the hit. DPs aren't about damage, they're about saying GET OFF ME PLEASE. 623D does that a /lot/ better than 623A.

The thing is, as Airk pointed out to me earlier in this thread, 623D has only 1 frame more of invulnerability, is that one frame really that big of a deal and really worth using a charge meter? Seems like the situations in which 623D would get them off you that 623a wouldn't because of 1 extra frame of invulnerability are kind of rare, but perhaps I don't understand how important that last frame is. I can, however, see how the A version could fail to get them off you if they were using a projectile destroying move though.

[pktazn]

That 1 extra frame can help you if you're looking for a DP. You don't have to worry about charge as much in CS2 since we can get them so easily now.

[Airk]

The one extra frame MAY be relevant if you are trying to reversal out of a blockstring, but it's unlikely - your opponent would need to be attacking with a fairly fast attack after a move with a relatively high amount of blockstun. Really, the relevant thing about a reversal DP is that it has invulnerability for about the first 5 frames or so - this is the window when your opponents attack is going to make contact with you if you instant block and then reversal.

623D does guarantee a trade (not a clean hit, mind), so if you're really, REALLY desperate, or have charge to burn, feel free to go for it, but the odds are that 623A would have worked just as well (or as poorly.)

Edit: The one other thing 623D has going for it is a wider hitbox. There are some circumstances where 623A will miss because your opponent is above you and too close horizontally, so the "light spear" part of the DP doesn't actually make contact. 623D is a LITTLE wider and will fail in this way slightly less often.

[pktazn]

The one extra frame MAY be relevant if you are trying to reversal out of a blockstring

Isn't that the point of a DP though? Not saying to always use 623D since it's dependent on the situation and how you want to approach that but I'm just curious.

[DanTheTimid]

Changing subject, what would you all say is the best way to start a round? I'm assuming it varies a bit depending on the match up, but in general, are there any opening actions that tend to be stronger then the rest?

For example, currently I tend to start my rounds by either:

1) j.cc (in theory its an IAD into j.cc but still haven't perfected my IADing yet)

2) back dash into 5D tap (my second favorite opening after the j.cc, if they play passively I get quick charge, if they play aggressively I skip the 5D and react accordingly)

3) 5B (usually use this if my opponent keeps running at me at the start of matches)

4) 2C (usually use this is my opponent keeps jumping at me at the start of matches)

5) 3C (use this sparingly in a long series of matches with the same person if I notice he doesn't block low at the start of the match)

I've also recently been experimenting with doing 22x at the start of the round in the same scenarios I would use 5B, but while the range is a little better, the slower start up occasionally seems to hurt me if they get on me fast enough. Also looking into opening with a 236x move, as they seem to stuff an awful lot of stuff and even catch a few jumping openings, but not sure which is the best strength to open with yet.

Edit: In regards to the DP debate, I'd like to add that, yes, if I had infinite charge I'd always use the D version over the A version when trying to get people off me, no reason not to to use the move with more invulnerability, but I'm finding many of the better players online make acquiring charge very difficult such that its not uncommon for me to get no more then 1-2 charge meters in an entire round. That may just be a fault of my own ability right now, but with that currently being the case, when given the choice between having 1 more frame of invulnerability that likely won't matter and having an extra meter that can dramatically increase the damage of my next combo or do a better job of carrying my opponent into the corner, its hard for me not to take my chances with a 623A to preserve the meter.

[BatousaiJ]

Lets not forget the nice damage you can do off of a 623D > j.214D in the corner that you wouldn't other wise using 623A > j.214D. Or if you have three charges, 623D > j.214D > 236D for that massive damage.

There are even fancy RC combos you can do off 623D itself on CH that you can't do with 623A as well.

623D CH(first hit) > RC > 5C > 2CC > IAD combo works just fine and is actually pretty easy to connect.

Off a none CH hit you can even do

623D(all 3 hits) > RC > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B (hooray for untechable time)

So basically, more invinc frames, better hit box, not only a projectile, more combo ability and damage. It's obviously the superior move and well worth the use of a charge in many situations.

As to address the starter option, in all honesty I would say the "best" starter is just simply to block and see what your opponent does first. Everything else can be easily punished if you're being read and especially on the first match you want to get an idea of what their preference of a opener is and try to punish that in the second round if they're dumb enough to start off the same way(and many do).

22A starter is actually quite strong as it's got the range and speed(IAD combo off CH too) and even if they choose to jump over it to start, you have time to recover before they can land a hit usually. It'll get beaten out by some normals on the ground like hazama's 3C and etc so just know the match up and see if they can beat your option.

I also enjoy using high jump backwards and getting a bit of j.D charge and then either air dashing forward or backwards to suit my needs. The trick with j.D is basically to only use it when you can air dash to continue pressure or back up to get to a safe range. Of course, the safest option is and always will be untechable time 5/2D but I find the more time you are able to charge successfully, the more frustrated and reckless my opponent gets in their attempt to stop my charging which allows me to punish them for it.

[Airk]

Lets not forget the nice damage you can do off of a 623D > j.214D in the corner that you wouldn't other wise using 623A > j.214D. Or if you have three charges, 623D > j.214D > 236D for that massive damage.

While I didn't go into specifics, I did pretty much already say that if you wanted damage off 623D, you need to burn 1-2 extra charges. I guess I didn't make it clear that this wasn't an option off 623A, but I thought it was implied.

So basically, more invinc frames, better hit box, not only a projectile, more combo ability and damage. It's obviously the superior move and well worth the use of a charge in many situations.

But most of those situations are dependant on you being willing/able to spend other resources on top of it.

22A starter is actually quite strong as it's got the range and speed(IAD combo off CH too) and even if they choose to jump over it to start, you have time to recover before they can land a hit usually. It'll get beaten out by some normals on the ground like hazama's 3C and etc so just know the match up and see if they can beat your option.

It can be a VERY near thing if people get in the habit of jumping towards you, so some measure of caution is in order. It shouldn't lose to Hazama's 3C though, unless it goes over him or something - it comes out in 10 frames, vs 14 for 3C. It IS, however, harder to precisely time 22A than 3C.

I also enjoy using high jump backwards and getting a bit of j.D charge and then either air dashing forward or backwards to suit my needs. The trick with j.D is basically to only use it when you can air dash to continue pressure or back up to get to a safe range. Of course, the safest option is and always will be untechable time 5/2D but I find the more time you are able to charge successfully, the more frustrated and reckless my opponent gets in their attempt to stop my charging which allows me to punish them for it.

[pktazn]

Yea, just watch what they do when the match starts and decide what to do from there since that's most likely what they'll do in other rounds. From what I've played most will either air back-dash or (air) dash towards you and start attacking.

My personal favorite is when they tend to airdash towards you, so you can air grab/2C into a combo haha.

[BatousaiJ]

While I didn't go into specifics, I did pretty much already say that if you wanted damage off 623D, you need to burn 1-2 extra charges. I guess I didn't make it clear that this wasn't an option off 623A, but I thought it was implied.

But most of those situations are dependant on you being willing/able to spend other resources on top of it.

It can be a VERY near thing if people get in the habit of jumping towards you, so some measure of caution is in order. It shouldn't lose to Hazama's 3C though, unless it goes over him or something - it comes out in 10 frames, vs 14 for 3C. It IS, however, harder to precisely time 22A than 3C.

Ya I got that you pointed it out, it's just important enough to warrant being reiterated with examples.

As for your "willing to spend resources", as we all know if you win with 2 charges left, they won't carry over to the next round and losing with a bunch of charges in tow just feels like ass.

Don't be a hard ass and treat each and every charge like you'll never get another as that will make you predictable to play against. I'm generally in the camp of using my charges more liberally(not needlessly though) especially in crucial moments of the game where you need to take advantage of every last invinc frame and point of damage to gut out that win.

As for the Hazama example, it's precisely a matter of input on the beginning of battle. Just try to put out a 22A and have the Hazama player spamming 3C at the start and see which one wins every time. There are a handful of moves like that and it helps to be aware of them.

[Airk]

Ya I got that you pointed it out, it's just important enough to warrant being reiterated with examples.

As for your "willing to spend resources", as we all know if you win with 2 charges left, they won't carry over to the next round and losing with a bunch of charges in tow just feels like ass.

It's really the "able" more than the "willing"; If you've only GOT one charge and 40 heat, 623D doesn't really get you much more than 623A, so you might want to save it.

Obviously, nothing exists in a vacuum.

As for the Hazama example, it's precisely a matter of input on the beginning of battle. Just try to put out a 22A and have the Hazama player spamming 3C at the start and see which one wins every time. There are a handful of moves like that and it helps to be aware of them.

Me, I'd sadly be more worried about Ragna and his bleeping 5B, which comes out in 8 frames, and somehow reaches far enough to hit you at the start of the round. x.x It just seems odd to me to weigh the value of a 623D when you've got charges and the skills to use them, but then weigh the value of 22A as a starter on the assumption that you're no good at timing it. If you're no good at timing it, Tager can 5C you in the face at the start of the round too (Only 1 frame slower than Hazama's 3C), but I don't think that's one of the moves you'd suggest people be wary of. (Or maybe it is?)

Regarding other starters, they're mostly dependant on your opponent and what you think they're likely to do. 236B will catch most people who try to backdash at the start of the round, and is pretty safe at that range if they just block it, but it _WILL_ get stuffed by pretty much any random attack people throw out at the start of the round (Ragna 5B, Tager 5C, Hazama 3C, Platinum 5B, Jin 5D, Litchi pretty much anything, etc.) so you should try to have a read on people before using it, because the reward isn't very exciting (Basically 236B,214B,22B and time to charge.). It's kinda similar to 3C in that regard, except the risk on 3C is even worse because if they block, you're in for it, whereas at that distance, 236B is roughly even.

[logichole]

So here's my question. I want to level up my rushdown/mixup/blockstrings. What are good options with Tsubaki here?

[pktazn]

She has an overhead and a low that look similar when it's starting (6A and 6B respectively) but be aware of it's gatlings and that they're somewhat slow. They do work though if you aren't too predictable with blockstrings unlike me haha.

Actually you just have to remember what her normals can cancel and gatling into other moves to help with rushdown/mixup/blockstrings.

This is a list of gatlings for Tsubaki's normals from Ginseng's Guide for Tsubaki

I'm hoping someone else who's better with blockstrings and pressure can give you a list of what they feel would be the best options since I'm still learning but Batousai gave me these tips after we played so maybe it can help you too

Use 5C© > 6B and 5BB > 6A or 2B > 6A and etc more often in your block strings.

Try going into practice mode, having the dummy block everything and get used to using 6B and 6A in your blockstrings and you'll level up your pressure just like that

[Urichinan]

Is using 236236C as a OS in the corner (214214C+B= Barrier if they don't roll out, 236236C if they do) worth the meter?

[Airk]

So here's my question. I want to level up my rushdown/mixup/blockstrings. What are good options with Tsubaki here?

Well, the basics, in no particular order, are

Lots of short dash pressure. For best pressure, you need to be in or near throw range. 5B, 2A and 6B all leave you plus on block, as do 22C and 22D. These are your best chances to dash in closer.

"High/low Mixup points": You can gatling to a high or a low after: 5A, 2A, 5B, 5BB, or 2B. If you're trying for high low mixup, you don't really want to proceed much further in your blockstrings than that, especially since you'll be wanting to dash in again before their blocking pushes you too far back. (Unless you gatlinged into a 6A - 6A should pretty much ALWAYS be followed by some sort of cancel.)

Longer pressure strings are good for both surprising your opponent once they expect you to do short strings, and also to make blocked mixup safe - if you've gone as far in your string as 2BB (going for a low), then you should cancel that move into something, since it's -7 on block. The mixup at this point stops being "high low" and starts being "when is this string going to stop" because from 2BB, you go into 5CC>6B, with option to charge cancel 5C or 5CC (Resetting you to basically neutral - you'll be at roughly -2 here, which still isn't half bad.) and option of going for 22C (or 22D) after any move. 22C chips off a primer and leaves you plus on block, and you can play mini-mindgames by holding it for a moment or two. Plus, once your opponent gets used to blocking 22C, it becomes easier to sucker them into trying to block a fully charged 22D.

On top of all this, you can mix in throws - mostly during your dash-jab spam, but really anytime you're in range (Kara throw helps here.)

There's also some sort of weird crossup IAD j.214D thing you can do, but I'm going to tag BattousaiJ to explain how that works, because I don't really get it yet.

re: 236236B+C OS in the corner... I dunno. I think there are probably better ways to stuff rolls, but if you're worried about a wakeup Jayoku or something, I guess this is a very safe approach. The reward for a naked 236236C isn't anything especially exciting though, and you'll lose your corner pressure because you'll blast them all the way across the screen.

[logichole]

For best pressure, you need to be in or near throw range. [...] you'll be wanting to dash in again before their blocking pushes you too far back.

Aha! I think this is my problem. I was generally taking my blockstrings all the way to 6B > 22C and wondering why I was never close enough to keep the pressure on. I'm very comfortable with doing kara throws, but was rarely close enough to make use of that.

[...] charge cancel 5C or 5CC (Resetting you to basically neutral - you'll be at roughly -2 here, which still isn't half bad.)

I'll try that too.

What are some techniques for beating crouchers? 6A is really, really slow. Looking similar to 6B during startup helps I guess... are there any other good overhead options vs. people who block low? Against a standing opponent 5B > jc > j.B offers some amusing variations, but a low j.B whiffs against crouchers and j.C is also awkward in that situation.

What are my options for getting in close in the first place? 22X > charge or throw > charge tends to leave you quite far away. 236X is now pretty safe when spaced properly, but still gets stuffed by an opponent who looks for it and hits you out of it. On block I'd want to go to 2A perhaps? Maybe I should work more on 5B > dash in for pressure.

[Airk]

The only things you have for beating crouchers are:

1) 6A. You'll just have to be as sneaky as you can. Looking a bit like 6B helps a little, but good players will know that 6B isn't an option after 2B, so that won't apply.

2) Throws.

3) Making them want to hit buttons. It's EXTREMELY easy to create tiny little gaps in Tsubaki's blockstrings that give your opponent just enough time to do something stupid.

4) 22D if they're not paying attention.

5) Guard crush if they've had to burst. Tsubaki has good, steady guard crushing capability, and most of her moves that do it are fairly safe on block. She doesn't have any 4 primer strings or anything, but you can do weird stuff like 236C>22D>22C>RC>22C to mess with people's heads.

Basically, Tsubaki doesn't have any magic tricks for beating people who are willing to just hold downback. You just have to keep the pressure on as much as possible, and try to find something they're NOT watching for. Do the same 5BB>2B string 3 times and then go 5BB > 6A and see what happens. Throw out different versions of 22X with different charge times and try to psyche them into trying to block a 22D (anytime you do a 22X it's sortof a mini mindgame - they could try to jab you out, but they risk getting a counterhit, or they could try to jump out and risk getting hit and put back in pressure, or they can sit there and risk it being a 22D, or losing a primer to 22C). Don't go for the throw for a while, then switch to throwing a lot, etc.

But there's no Makoto 20 frame overhead or anything to make it easy for you.

In terms of getting in, yes, mostly it's 236X, 214X if you can catch people trying to hit you out with non-lows, dash 5B, or, heck, dash 22X. There are some tricks you can do with D cancelling as well - mostly on 236X, since those can be D-cancelled before they hit if spaced far enough, so things like 236X>214D can screw up people who are fishing around trying to hit you out. 2A is generally the best followup for 236X on block, though you can go into 22D for extra confusion, and, once people stop trying to hit you after one of those moves because you got a CH 2A on them once too often, you can start throwing, going for 6A, or WTFever. Also, in terms of getting in, you don't really want to deliberately start an offense against most characters with no charges, so try to dodge back and charge a little bit before engaging - with even one charge, you're able to stay right on top of your opponent...and hopefully get some scraps of charge in your knockdowns.

[iora]

I hit with 3C. What are my options. Particularly options for....

CH-50Heat-1Charge

CH-50Heat-0Charge

CH-0Heat-0Charge

NoCH-50Heat-1Charge

Thank you! There are exactly zero 3C combos in the combo thread.

[diospyros]

Well, from cs1 to cs2, 3c has changed from jump-cancellable to ice skates on cement. In fact, pray to god you don't hit someone with 3c on block. If you hit confirm 3cc with 50 heat though, the only option is to rc. Afterwards, you can link to 2c. I would look up Spinoza on the video thread for more information on it.