[CS2] Tsubaki vs Jin

[Ginseng]

Discuss the Tsubaki vs Jin matchup here.

Things to watch out for:

Some combos may not work on Jin due to his hitbox. Pay attention to your combos accordingly in this match-up

On corner,

air hit>j214D>5C(w)C>2CC>IAD jCC>5B>2CC>22[c]>5C 2C>236B>236B 214B 22B

Against jin, the combo completely whiffs at 5C(w)C. I replaced 5C(w)C with 2B, and it worked.

At midscreen,

air hit>j.214D>236D> dash 2CC>IAD j.CC>5B 2CC>236B 214B 22B

Against jin, an additional 5B between dash and 2CC can be added.

[SolxBaiken]

Ok so after fighting some respectable Jins I find it extremely hard to get out of his pressure, the gaps are so tight and I feel like nothing I have is fast enough to interrupt him without the player making a mistake. Hell even with barrier he seems to close the gap relatively well and his range and hitboxs just make me cry ; w;

So how should I go about fighting him?

[Airk]

Well, anytime you can predict him going for a 6B (where he hops forward and kicks you with his heel - the move that looks like an overhead but isn't) you've got an out. Depending on how gutsy you feel, how fast you react, and what he gatlinged from, you can interrupt this with a jab, 2C, DP, or super. There's 25 frames of startup there, and he can't gatling from anything that gives more than like 16 frames of hitstun.

Depending on how good your opponent is, he's going to rely on a lot of dash/DP cancels. Anytime you see a 6C come out (the upwards slash) that moves him forwards a good bit - you have to expect him to cancel it either into dash or DP. Dashes you can jab him out of unless he cancels the DASH into a DP, and DPs themselves are punish fodder if blocked. Sometimes they'll try to cancel into an ice sword or something instead, but if they let themselves get this far into a chain, they're not actually in that good a spot. Good Jins probably won't use 6C outside of combos.

The thing that always kills ME with Jin is that if he pins me in the corner, I have no clue how to get out and usually they just reset me to death. I know I should be blocking low, but I kinda SUCK at doing a neutral tech and then getting to downback fast enough. -_-

[BatousaiJ]

Playing against Jin hasn't changed much other than having to watch out for using that 6A more often which is annoying when he uses it without meter and very dangerous when he does.

Don't play that air to air game with Jin since his j.C and j.B will rock your world all day and play footsies with him with 5B since it's faster than his 5C and use your trusty 2C when he comes in on your aggressively from the air with j.2C and j.C.

If he's got you locked down, respect the + frames and throw out some wake up/IB DP so he respects your DP option but don't overuse it or he'll punish you for it.

If he respects the DP option, he'll lay off the attacks to bait it and that's your opportunity to get out or start a pressure string of your own.

Watch for his ice projectile while you're charging full screen and be prepared to block it. Don't get to aggressive against him on his wake up since Jins love DP'ing especially when you've got your back to the corner so bait it and punish accordingly.

Jin's got a better pressure game and can do more damage off random hits than before so play the distance game carefully and use 236C/D approach to your advantage.

[pktazn]

Against Jourdal I used a lot of counter assaults if I got in a corner. It helped get me out at least haha. Other than that I had to block and wait for an opening because his Jin is pretty aggressive and I'm lol with pressure at the moment.

[Ginseng]

I'll wait 1-2 more weeks before I put up a bullet point list.

[pktazn]

Was watching a recent ranbat on Nico and noticed that the Tsubaki player used 214D to go through his sword projectiles when he was trying to zone her. She got a few nice combos off him if that was his way to approach her as well. Thought it was worth mentioning.

[BatousaiJ]

Ya, Jin players get a little reckless trailing their 236C sword and I often catch people with 214D as they rush in.

Don't forget that Jin's 2D will hit you out of 214D and given that's mid-range, if they call out your 214D as they rush in, they'll be able to throw that out there and get a meaty combo off of it.

[Airk]

Ya, Jin players get a little reckless trailing their 236C sword and I often catch people with 214D as they rush in.

Don't forget that Jin's 2D will hit you out of 214D and given that's mid-range, if they call out your 214D as they rush in, they'll be able to throw that out there and get a meaty combo off of it.

Yup, 2D and 6D will both hit you out of 214 series, but both are too slow for him to do on reaction to anything other than 214C, so as long as you're not predictable, you should be fine.

Otherwise, 214 is strong against Jin - it dodges EVERYTHING he has including DPs, Supers, and Astral. The only things that can hit you are 2D, 6D, 2A, 2B and 3C. Heck, I may have to start throwing out 214Bs on people who insist on trying to special cancel their 6Cs with stuff. :P

Jin is a weird matchup. He does a lot of damage off certain hits (mostly in the corner) but he has no "tradtional" mixup to speak of - until he has 50 heat his overhead basically does nothing, so he's entirely reliant on weird jump/projectile and throw shenanigans or getting counterhits with DPs. Against good Jin players, I swear I take more damage for trying to hit him than I do for getting hit by his 'mixup'.

[Jourdal]

His OH is not useless, w/ or w/o meter. He has a lot of gimmicks he can use in place of mixup. And if you think his damage is still primarily in the corner then....

[Airk]

His overhead is 640 damage unless he has heat, or counterhits you. That's pretty unfierce.

I pretty much SAID that he has lots of gimmicks.

I didn't say he only does damage in the corner, and I don't think you're prepared to argue that Jin's best chances of "a lot of damage" DON'T come in the corner.

Edit: Sorry. Crabby day at work. Was excited when I saw your name since I know you play Jin and probably know a ton about him, but there's no info in your post.

[Mr. Kimura]

Cancel dash and 3C into DP? Everytime I wait for it he doesn't do it and then he gets to do what he wants. That an all his air moves are stupidly good. This matchup isn't fun at all. All I know is to wait for 6B and 6D but thats about it. If I try to pressure him I get DP'd, and when I drop and block and wait for one, it never comes out.

[Errol]

Yeah, Jin's air is legendary.

[Mr. Kimura]

Its true. The match up is even on paper but it doesn't seem like it when fighting him. I guess I need to learn to keep my distance and learn not to fail on baiting DP's.

But at least if he dashes after 6C and does DP, 214x should go through it from what I've practiced, at least with the right timing. Or you can block and punish. The only problem I think that most people like me have are approaching him, most Jins I fight are all over the place.

[Airk]

If he's doing the 6C > Dash Cancel > DP thing, just throw out a jab. One jab. He'll think to himself, "Aha! He's mashing to try to hit me out!" and go into the DP, but you'll recover, block and clobber him. Just don't mash. Or, yes, you can beat the DP with just about any 214 move, depending on which version he likes to use. (Most Jin players will use the C version because the D version costs heat and the B version whiffs on crouchers.).

2C is your friend, because it will stuff a LOT of air approaches, and force him to get tricky. Once he starts getting tricky, his common options are: Crossup j.D (Which actually loses to 2C if you time it right, but the timing is different for Crossup vs not crossup and it can be hard to tell.), or feinting with j.236A/B/C/D of which only the D version is really particularly safe, the others can generally be bypassed with a properly timed Dash, 236 or 214 and he has 11 frames of landing recovery for you to punish.

Beating Jin is all about understanding the patterns your opponent is using, because fundamentally, ALL of his methods of applying pressure are unsafe when responded to correctly, but you often won't have time to react, so you'll need to predict.