Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dr. Stormlocke

Robo vs Jam

Recommended Posts

Matchup Statistics

Japanese Ranking: 4.5-5.5 in Jam's favor.

Openers:

Punishes:

Counters:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan: If they have tension, just expect Puffball Force Break. This is the best mentality to have against Jam.

Strategy: Jam likes to take to the air a lot, so greet her with 2hs knee rockets! Don't throw them out too often as her Force Break can make quick work of you unless you FRC the move.

Char specific details:

Member Submitted Info:

Originally posted by: Chojin

ANTI-FB BURST RUSH STRATS:

Her FB is difficult (if not impossible) for Robo to beat. If it's timed correctly, it can (and will) beat or trade with 2K (which I think is total crap, but whatever). The only hope you have of consistently beating it is hitting it with DP, which probably won't happen since you'll be too far away most of the time. Therefore, your best bet is to play it safe.

When I'm getting hit with random FB burst rush, this is generally what I'm being hit out of:

1) f.S

2) 2K

3) horsie (sometimes)

So, FB burst rush > your best pokes. Therefore, you don't want to throw out these pokes too often (midscreen, anyways). Lvl 3 missiles work OK, since you can jump and FD right after you shoot them (if necessary). Again, you can't be predictable with them or you're dead.

When Jam has enough tension for FB burst rush, try to stay out of mid-range, which is where you're most vulnerable (this is where Robo's slow pokes hurt him the most against Jam). If you're at the other end of the screen or in her face, you stand a much better chance of avoiding or beating the FB. 2K actually does a pretty good job of beating the startup of burst rush, so don't be afraid to use that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BasfXaouzg Nezu does a pretty good job here of avoiding the FB. Also, take note of his use of 2H (FRC) to bait a punish from Kazu.

GENERAL STRATS:

1) Always bazooka her on wakeup. You should do it relatively close when she has < 50% tension (since bazooka will avoid her DP everywhere except at max range) and from near max range when she has >= 50% since missile will often beat her dash super and you'll be out of range of the column super.

2) 2K, 2S, 2D is NOT safe. Jam gets a free 2D after this (I don't think IBing the 2S is necessary). Make full use of her 2K flowchart: mix up the following so you don't get predictable:

i) 2K, 2S, 2D

ii) 2K, 2S, 5H FRC

iii) 2K, delay 2S, etc

iv) 2K, recover, etc

v) etc etc etc

Don't forget that 2K tends to hit very meaty against Jam due to her thin lower-body standing hitbox. This makes your throw very effective after an empty 2K.

3) Don't be afraid to turtle at the other end of the screen and throw out missiles, lay mats, etc. You're relatively safe from long range; mid-range is the problem.

4) 5P is your go-to poke. It recovers quickly enough that you will be safe from random FB and iad drop-kick.

5) Command throw can be difficult against her since her 2P is retardedly fast (timed correctly out of blockstun, it WILL beat your command throw) and she has a fast jump. Make sure to mix it up with normals (I like using 5H FRC) in order to bait this and jumps.

6) 5P is also your best anti-air. It stands a good chance of beating IAD mixups, leading to a painful combo. Use 2H sparingly as it *will* get your FBed. However, you can use this to your advantage by intentionally using 2H in a dangerous spot, FRC it, and immediately 2K; this setup will beat out the inevitable burst rush or dash-in combo.

7) Learn how to deal with 6H. You can beat it with lvl 3 DP or slash-back and 5H. Jam can be very predictable with this move, so use this to your advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys. I play Jam so I don't know the specifics of Robo Ky as a character but I do feel like I know the JA vs RO match-up well enough to give some advice on this. Feel free to correct me if anything seems wrong because I'm not an advocate on Robo Ky. With that said, I believe Robo Ky's best offensive opener is f.S. I notice that I get CHed out of all of Jam's usual offensive openers except for her 214K or 236S+P>Throw. His 6P is also not a bad opener but this one makes you a little more committed because if Jam high IADs over you, you will get CH into a combo that ends in card charge for Jam. I don't suggest opening with 2HS too often unless you know she's going to empty jump forward because whiffing this move is the worst thing you can do. Obviously the safest thing for both characters to do is play it safe by taking a defensive opening, which doesn't sound like a bad idea for either of the characters considering their limited options. Jam's IAD 214K is one of her slowest activating air-to-ground moves. Thus, if she does it mid-pressure off of a ground string to try and cross you up, you will have ample time to use 5P to CH her out of it. The other universal option is to air throw her. If you learn how to react to her IADs, you will have more control of this match. But on the other hand if you cannot stop her IADs then she will have the luxury to steamroll over you. Learn how to stop it and condition the Jam player to stay put on the ground. However, do not try to guess when she is going to IAD off of her ground string. Jam also has the option to end her ground strings in 236S>S or even worse 236S>D so if you jump up going for the air throw you will get clipped by this and the rest is history. It's imperative that you learn how to react to it and not just guess. Some of her common JC into IAD moves are her S and 2D so try looking for the IAD after that. For starters, if you have a hard time 5Ping her out of her IAD 214K or air throwing, try uppercutting when you have 50% meter. This will at least get you started on practicing to react to her IADs. And hey, learning how to airthrow people out of everything is a very handy skill that can be applied to any match-up. One thing I can't stress enough is don't use 2HS from mid-distance or closer unless you can FRC it. The previous post mentioned this but I'm going to reiterate this again because it I see this mistake too often with Robo Ky players. The only way you can AA her with this is if you anticipate long before she even IADs. But the thing is that a good Jam has no reason to leave the ground when Robo Ky is at the optimal range for a physic 2HS, and if your guess is wrong and you don't have an FRC Jam will kill you. I guarantee it she will kill you, even without tension. But feel free to use it if Jam is high up in the air because like all other characters there is nothing she can do about it except dodge or FD it. Airthrowing her out of her IAD is a much safer and cleaner way to dealing with IADs. When Jam is grounded, Robo Dash is risky. Not only does she have the universal option of double jump>drop>combo but she can also parry it. The FRC can lead to mind games if she goes for the parry but just don't get too greedy with Robo Dashing because anybody can see it coming from a mile away. Moreover, do not abuse the Horse. If you use it from far away then she has enough time to throw out a 6P. Even if you use it point blank she still has enough time to parry it. Both options can potentially lead to a wallstick combo. Not being able to use it randomly or even during a pressure string when you get pushed back too far kinda defeats the purpose of this move, but unfortunately you have to deal with this limitation in this match up. I suppose it's still safe to use if Jam tries to jump out of your pressure string, or if she's already in blockstun from a missile (again, defeats the point, unless you are specifically using it to close distance while in Det. Super.) Robo Ky with 50% meter will shut down a lot of Jam's options. The previous poster mentioned that uppercut super is the only reliable thing that will beat Jam's FB. Well, a lot of Jam players who do not understand that there are actually risks involved with her FB will confidently use it even from 3/4 of the screen away hoping for an easy way to close distance and potentially score a hit. You SHOULD be able to see something like this coming, especially if you sense that the Jam is playing mindlessly, so if you have meter you run towards where you expect the FB to activate and you DP that scrub Jam at point blank range. It is like playing chicken with Jam in a Hummer but Robo Ky is in a Big Rig. Fortunately for you, Big Rig > Hummer. It might sound crazy but you gotta go for it if you feel that FB coming. It is one of the few offensive answers to random puff ball FB and if you can condition Jam into stopping it, then you will have more control of that match. Let her know that you're not going to put up with cheesy FBing. Alternatively, you can just let her do it and make her waste tension but this will relinquish some control over to her since you'll be forced to play conservatively and defensively. You let your own playstyle decide which route you take with this one. I seriously suggest you learn how to counter FB with super though, so that at least you have it at your disposal. About missed uppercuts on wakeup. More often than not if you are uppercutting on wakeup with Robo Ky, it is because you have over 50% tension. This way, even if the uppercut is blocked or whiffed you can still F/RC it to remain safe. About 95% of the time I see Robo Ky add a j.S afterwards to catch the opponent off guard because the prospects of a CH j.S is enticing. Take note that Jam has the option to parry this. Now I'm not saying don't uppercut, but plan out your uppercuts so you don't put yourself into a bad situation. Oki games. Level 2 + 3 ground missiles on wake up might sound safe at first, but Jam can Burst Cancel right through it. If you know your opponent can do it, then you might want to stick with meaty 5K>5K>... instead. If she doesn't have Burst or doesn't BC then feel free to use missiles. If you don't understand the properties of BC, the crash course is that Jam cannot BC if she doesn't have a Burst, but she can do it as many times as she wants as long as she has a Burst. She needs to parry something, cancel into Burst, then cancel Burst in to FD, which will grant her all the invincibility frames of a Burst. There are enough invul. frames for her to run right past your missiles. Otherwise, once you have her in missile blockstun you can treat her like any other character. Just remember that 5K is not a bad option. Only difference is that you have to deal with her DP. Switching topics a little bit, Jam can also 6HS (throw invul.) your command throw so you best be real tricky with it. Random tidbits. Standing on the other side of the screen on a mat and waiting for Jam to rush in isn't a bad idea. A well-timed f.S will beat a lot of Jam's fast pokes if she approaches from the ground with a normal move. This will CH and lead to a knockdown. His 2K works sometimes too but in my experience it is slightly unreliable when dealing with Jam's 2S but it's still worth mentioning. If she air dashes in, then use the aforementioned 5P/airthrow/uppercut. When Jam knocks you down and charges a card, try not to retaliate with 2K. Closing the distance with a low that moves forward might seem tempting but 6HS will CH you every time. While Jam's pressuring you, IBing is just as much an important factor to winning as with any other match up. With proper spacing, instant blocking Jam's air dash j.P>j.P>*n pressure in the air will allow you to air throw her between the punches. This is true for all characters, not just Robo Ky. Jam's 6HS and 5HS is absolute IB bait. If you instant block her 6HS or the last hit of her 5HS with 50% meter, you can go directly into uppercut super. So as you can see, when Robo Ky has tension he doesn't have to deal with neither her puff ball FB, or her 5HS/6HS pressure strings. All of these things are easier said than done and I'll agree that JA vs RO is slightly in Jam's favor but it's far from impossible. It is a matter of learning how to shut down some integral parts of Jam's games. Summary: 1) Learn how to anti-air via 5P/air throw/super uppercut. 2) No empty 2HS when Jam is grounded. Move is awful. 3) No horse. Move is parry bait. 4) Robo Ky super uppercut > Jam FB. 5) If you are only going to IB two things, make it Jam's 5HS (last hit) and 6HS. Hi Stormlocke!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Summary:

1) Learn how to anti-air via 5P/air throw/super uppercut.

2) No empty 2HS when Jam is grounded. Move is awful.

3) No horse. Move is parry bait.

4) Robo Ky super uppercut > Jam FB.

5) If you are only going to IB two things, make it Jam's 5HS (last hit) and 6HS.

1) So after more experience, I retract my previous statement about 5P being a good anti-air. Yes, it hits every so often and leads to a nice combo, but it only really works against really low air-dashes from long-range. It's technically possible to hit IAD dropkick with 5P, but it's too dangerous, considering you'll take at least 50% damage if you mess it up. The same is true with air throw, especially considering they nerfed the range in AC. Now, uppercut will work, but you have to deal with drop-kick crossing you up, which again means you will get killed if you guess wrong.

Honestly, the only safe way I've found to deal with IAD dropkick is to jump and block. That way, you actually have a good amount of advantage afterwards and you don't have to deal with the cross-up issue.

2) Agreed. This move is not something you want to use against Jam... pretty much ever.

3) Disagree. Horsie is crucial in this match, since it is a very important combo starter and it's one of Robo's only practical moves that trades with FB puffball. Yes, you can eat a 6P into death, but that just means that you shouldn't be predictable. Hell, most characters can 6P you through horsie, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it against them.

4) If you are lucky enough to have Jam right next to you, then go for it. However, Jam has this nasty habit of stopping just short of your DP range, which lets her either CH you out of DP or punish you when you land. Whatever you do, *don't* react to burst rush with DP.

5) IB everything that is in your power to IB, especially those moves. However, make sure that you stay blocking low during blockstrings, since Jam can use 236S, K to ruin your day for 0 tension and 0 risk.

Also: in principle, burst cancelling is a big threat, but in reality it is too difficult and too dangerous to be something to seriously worry about.

*New points*

This match sucks more than I originally though it did. She is the rock to your scissors. Jam is much less risky and does better damage than you and has an answer to *everything* you have, all of which lead to big combos, while you have virtually zero answers to her best moves (I *defy* you to beat FB puffball, much less get a decent combo off of it). Most of your best assets (2K, missiles, f.S, heavy weight) are now liabilities. You're basically down to whoring out command throw, 5D, horsie, and DP, none of which are even the least bit safe.

This match illustrates some of my points, i.e. why 2K and missiles are a liability and why Jam's 236S, K is super-friggin cheap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb9CpeCRBqw

When Jam has 50% tension, you're kind of boned as far as safe wakeups are concerned. A meaty 5P will beat 632146S, but will not recover quick enough to beat 236236H. Lvl 3 bazooka will beat 236236H, but often will still get hit by 632146S. I think the only safe wakeup games you get might be off of a max-range lvl 3 bazooka, but that's really difficult to do.

Avoid finishing blockstrings/combos with 2S unless you're positive that you're in range. I can't tell you how many large combos I've eaten because 2S whiffed right in front of Jam.

Oh, did I mention that 2P mash clashes with your DP?

During bazooka mixup, this is by far your best low option:

lvl 3 bazooka (Jam blocks), run-jump in, land, 5K, hit-confirm DP super, land, 5K [JI], c.S, SJC, K, S, P, S, JC, D

This combo does something like 190 damage, is hit-confirmable, and preserves your tension gain since you didn't FRC.

*Opening gambits*

Asking to die: 2S, 2H, 5H

Extremely risky: f.S, 2K, any jumping move

Moderately risky: 5P, 6P

More or less Safe: Jump and block, block, backdash, 2D

Jam pretty much beats your ass at the start of the match, since she has multiple safe options that lead to big combos. TK dragon kick will counter hit you out of any jumping move and possibly even 5P/f.S, which leads to a 50% damage, 0 tension corner-loop into knockdown. Oh, and it's unpunishable. Drop kick will beat most of your options for a smaller combo, probably around 30%. Her ground options generally will get beat by f.S or 6P, but the threat of TK dragon kick and IAD drop kick should keep you from doing those. Your best option is to sit on your ass and start to build tension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3) Actually, yeah, I thought about it for a while and what I said earlier about horse was a very one dimensional way of looking at the move. Instead I should have pointed out the mistakes I see Robo Ky players make when using this move. Some of these should be obvious but I still see it too often. Probably just a habit RK players have a hard time dropping because it works better in other match ups: - After a non-CH Robo Dash connects, RK should not use Horse as Jam wakes up to get back closer to her. Should be obvious but I still see it happen. D: If you want to close distance, cancel the tension charge earlier and dash in. - During a pressure string after RK gets pushed back too far, be conservative with how often you use Horse to get back in. Jam might be specifically waiting for it. - Be careful with using Horse point blank as Jam wakes up. OS parry beats your bait throw. But yeah, Horse can still be used in other situations like to clip her if you suspect her to jump out of pressure or if you know it will beat out something she's about to throw out. I guess it just comes down to this move being high risk, high reward. Take note that Jam's 236S+K can only cancel into one of her three kicks if she has that kick charged. Without a card or RC, 236S+K is unsafe + punishable on block unless done from max distance (think of it like Ky's Stun Dipper, but his is unsafe on IB). If she does 236S+K after 2D and she doesn't have tension or a card, it will be the end of her pressure string. If Jam has card when 236S+K is blocked, then she has the option to wait a second and cancel into charged kick for a high risk/high reward mind game. If she goes for this high risk strategy, your best option is to remain blocking low or use a move that keeps him in crouching position because the charged kick will whiff completely. I don't think the video shows anything cheap about the move, though. The first time he got hit by it just lead to bad bursting. Jam has to commit when baiting after 236S+K. Had he not bursted he would have been free to tech backwards safely. In a case where Jam isn't baiting, the most reliable time to burst is after eating the charged kick. Dogura basically did the worst thing he could do in that particular round. The next time he got hit by it was as the end of that same round, when Jam has no tension or card. Had he just blocked it he would have still had a chance to survive. It's a decent move but I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's cheap. Understand its properties and you will have an easier time dealing with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was implied that it's only dangerous when she has a kick charged, since that's the *only time* that the move is particularly risky. And yeah, there was a poor burst, but that's besides the point; Jam does a delayed 236S, K after a blocked 2D which can very easily catch the opponent standing or doing a move. Even *if* the opponent blocks it, it's WAY too dangerous to try to punish it because of the threat of the charged kick, so the situation is very, VERY much in Jam's favor. Think about it this way: if you guess correctly that Jam isn't going to follow up with charged kick, then then best you can punish with is probably a f.S. If you guess wrong, though, Jam gets 60-70% for no tension. So, going by the numbers, it's overwhelmingly in your best interests to continue to block afterwards, which is what Dogura in fact does. So, what we have is this: a fast, delayable, low-hitting move that can be hit-confirmed into a large combo for no tension from *anywhere* in the screen, and to top it all off, it's more or less safe. It's only disadvantage is that it requires a charged kick to be useful... but honestly, when *doesn't* Jam have a charged kick available, especially in this matchup. EDIT: OK, so you mentioned that you can use a crouching move to avoid charged kick, which I think is true, but it doesn't change the fact that the risk/reward for 236S, K is still overwhelmingly in her favor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i played a ton of jam matches last night and just to kinda reiterate what has already been said. Robot had two really good normals in this match 5p for when shes in the air and 2s for when shes on the ground. 5p will CH alot of her air approaches and leads to big damage and it will also recover before you get hit if it whiffs when she does a move like 214k. The only time it doesnt work is if shes like coming down directly on top of you in which case you should just block. Seriously any time you see her in the air throw this thing out. 2s has a longer range than most of her ground normals and will hit her on the approach alot. It also will hit her out of her puffballs alot of the time. Be careful though cause 2s does have a bit of a recovery time and jam is very fast. Another great move for this match is lvl3 sho. alot of jams pressure you can IB and sho in. It will also beat out or clash with puff balls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw in Nezu's vid where he did LV3 DP between Jam's 5HS and 6HS. Is there any other gaps in Jam's string that I can IB and LV3 DP? It's really painful when once she gets in and see my guard gauges jacked up flashing in matter of second D: Only thing I try is just look for opening to DP...but that doesn't always work well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just DAA maybe? if your going for L3 srk, then you got the 50% tension anyway... right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ But doesn't your tension gain becomes shit after DAA? Besides, I would love to do some damage against Jam whenever possible. I just can't shake her off with Robo other than IB and FD at the same time and look for opening to DP or 5HS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like DAA, as its free knockdown if they dont bait it from ya so thats a decent way to get a oki setup in too, based on your tension... like 70% tension, you can DAA then TK 2 L2 missiles that will get you a lil time to recover and plan out what to do or (much less safe) follow up with a robo dash, then you can do some things frc it into a 50/50 with 2s and 5d, let the dash go thru (not advised imo), just command grab them instead (easy to see coming though), fd brake it into a 2h if you think theyll srk try it with the missiles though, seems like you could use that for momentum switch which would be useful in that kinda situation with jam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried practicing IBing Jam's 5HS into LV3 Shoryu but it seems that I need to IB all 3 hits to get it out. Maybe I'm not inputting Shoryu fast enough but I tried to IB the last hit of Jam's 5HS but bah, Shoryu doesn't come out at all. I could backdash or Shoryu only if I IB'd all 3 hits. Anyone wants to confirm this for me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried practicing IBing Jam's 5HS into LV3 Shoryu but it seems that I need to IB all 3 hits to get it out. Maybe I'm not inputting Shoryu fast enough but I tried to IB the last hit of Jam's 5HS but bah, Shoryu doesn't come out at all. I could backdash or Shoryu only if I IB'd all 3 hits. Anyone wants to confirm this for me?

Last time i checked with ZAPPA/MAY/KY (didnt try with robo ky) I only needed to IB the 3rd hit in order to backdash... I think i even CHed 6hs with Zappa's 5p (5f startup) when my timing was exact...

so unless everything including IB goes against robo ky :( shoryu should work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last time i checked with ZAPPA/MAY/KY (didnt try with robo ky) I only needed to IB the 3rd hit in order to backdash... I think i even CHed 6hs with Zappa's 5p (5f startup) when my timing was exact...

so unless everything including IB goes against robo ky :( shoryu should work

Thanks, I will go try it out once more whenever I find time to play. I only got to play for half an hour so I maybe was coming to conclusion hastily. Because IBing last hit is just so much easier than IBing all 3 :yaaay:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what about can you uppercut before jam does the 6hs?

If jam does 5hs 6hs, theres nothing you can do without IBing the 3rd hit of 5hs... in other situations like 5k 6hs, you can uppercut her before 6hs comes out (but you have to have godlike reactions)

Thanks, I will go try it out once more whenever I find time to play. I only got to play for half an hour so I maybe was coming to conclusion hastily. Because IBing last hit is just so much easier than IBing all 3 :yaaay:

and i just remembered i actually uppercut jam after IBing the 3rd hit of 5hs before 6hs came out with ky... so it should definately work with robo ky. Thing with ky was that I have to delay it a bit or we both trade Counter Hits (:psyduck:). Not sure if its the same with robo or not... plz confirm :yaaay:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I just got it. You can just IB the 3rd hit of Jam's 5HS and Shoryu does indeed come out. I was trying to input too fast like as soon as I IB, I tried to Shoryu. That was the problem. I did the way you suggested and delayed my input and it works like a charm. Thanks. edit: Now I did the calculation again, I guess you have to input shoryu asap guard stun is over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the frame data says that on normal block it is +1 so on IB it would be -3, so yes it's safe the timing might just be a little difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you need a way to put up a defense for a hyperactive Jam, I find that using the 2HS against her when she's flying towards you with a kick stops her in her tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×