[CSE] Arakune Technical & Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Skye]

Never touched Extend's Challenge mode.

Is the j.a whiffing because its too high or too low?

Does it look perfectly positioned and they just tech out?

[Kujikawa]

It's too high.

They just tech out.

[Skye]

Sounds like you are Super Jumping.

Do a Normal Jump and see how it works.

[Kujikawa]

I'm not. This is strange lol.

[kousaka]

Its just a timing thing. Delay the jump cancel from 5d a bit and to get all the Ja's in mash it in faster.

[Jyosua]

Hey guys, I'm trying to calculated frametraps, airtight strings, and unsafe ground gatlings for blockstrings for each character. I'll be going in mostly alphabetical order, so I've started with Arakune. I've never actually touched the character, so I'm not sure if any of these are incorrect, not viable, never are blocked on the first active frame, etc. Could you guys look through this list and correct any noteable errors? I really appreciate it.

Assumptions made: All moves are blocked on the first active frame. This means you are in blockstun starting from the second active frame of the move. Moves with a 5 or less frame gap between them I’m calling a frame trap. For the most part, I’m also assuming that cancels are done at the earliest possible time. Sometimes delaying this allows for a frame trap.

Further notes: Instant blocking the first move increases the gap by 3. Barrier blocking decreases the gap by 1. Using this knowledge, you can more easily figure out where to mash or DP.

Arakune

Airtight gatlings:

5A > 5A

5A > 6B

5B > 5A

5C > 6D

2A > 5A

2A > 2A (barely, can be delayed for an easy frametrap)

2B > 2A

2B > 2B

6A > 2B

6A > 6B

6A > 6D

6B > 6D

Frametraps:

5A > 2A – 1 frame gap

5B > 5D - .38 frame gap (lol?)

5C > 5D – 1 frame gap

2A > 5B – 1 frame gap

2A > 2B – 1 frame gap

2A > 2C – 3 frame gap

2A > 6D – 4.38 frame gap (lol?)

6A > 4B – 4 frame gap

6A > 5D – 2 frame gap

6A > 2D – 4 frame gap

Unsafe Gatlings:

5A > 6A – 14 frame gap

5A > 6C – 18 frame gap

5A > 5D – 8 frame gap

5A > 6D – 5.38 frame gap (lol?)

5B > 4B – 5 frame gap

5B > 5C – 7 frame gap

5B > 6C – 11 frame gap

5B > 3C – 10 fame gap

5C > 6C – 11 frame gap

2A > 4B – 9 frame gap

2A > 5C – 13 frame gap

2A > 6C – 17 frame gap

2A > 3C – 16 frame gap

2A > 5D – 7 frame gap

2A > 2D – 9 frame gap

2B > 5C – 11 frame gap

2B > 6C – 15 frame gap

2B > 3C – 14 frame gap

2B > 2D – 7 frame gap

6A > 5C – 8 frame gap

6C > 5C - ~13 frame gap

6C > 5C > 2C - ~8 frame gap

[Skye]

5a > 5d has an 8 frame gap?

Weird, I always imagined it to be safer than that considering that 5d CHs mashers.

[Jyosua]

Well assuming 5A hits on the first frame and that you gatling it right away, the opponent has exactly 9 frames of blockstun left. If the wiki is right about 5D having 17 frames of startup, you've got an 8 frame gap. 8 frames is relatively short though, so if they don't yomi it and try to react, they may miss the opportunity, especially online.

[Herbal Grey]

Well assuming 5A hits on the first frame and that you gatling it right away, the opponent has exactly 9 frames of blockstun left. If the wiki is right about 5D having 17 frames of startup, you've got an 8 frame gap. 8 frames is relatively short though, so if they don't yomi it and try to react, they may miss the opportunity, especially online.

i'm about to like a noob. how/where are you finding/calculating blockstun?

also, i went into training mode and i think it's actually a 6 frame gap because i tested with haku's, rachel's, and arakune's 5a to mash during this frame trap...haku (and makoto i tested) beat it out, rachel traded, and arakune flat out lost (with haku's 5a startup being 5 frames, rachel's 6, and arakune's 7)

also, like i was wondering if you're just doing every gatling? because like even though moves cancel into 3c, you would never use it as a block string per se because 3c would completely whiff (with long recovery)

btw, this list is really cool. me like

[Jyosua]

Yeah I did every ground gatling. If the gap is 6 frames (which it quite possibly could be), that means that 5A only hits on the last of its active frames. That's really important, because it will change the values for all gatlings from 5A.

Can someone test 5A > 6A and see if you can fit a 15 or 16 frame startup in between those? That will confirm which frame 5A actually hits on, I think. Based on your tests, it doesn't appear that the size of the character affects the frame it actually hits on.

Yeah, I'm just doing all the ground gatlings. There are some like that in Jin's revolver action too, like 5B > 2D... it's an utterly useless gatling, unless maybe you're fighting carl. XD

The way this is calculated:

Look at the first move's level. 5A is a level 1 move, which means when blocked it induces 11 frame of blockstun. If we assume it's blocked on the first frame, since it has 3 active frames, the last 2 active frames eat 2 frames of your 11 frames of blockstun. This leaves 9 frames of blockstun left. Since we're doing blockstring gatlings, I'm assuming you're cancelling these at the earliest possible moment. This means that instead of the 12 frames of recover 5A has, we'd be dealing with the 17 frame startup 5D has. We've got 9 frames of blockstun left, so the first 9 of those 17 frames the opponent is in blockstun, but the remaining 8 they are not and can mash.

However, your tests indicate that 5A does not touch the opponent until the very last of its active frames. this means that after the last active frame you have the full 11 frames of blockstun left. Again, we're assuming the move is immediately cancelled into the startup of 5D, which means that the gap is only 6.

[Skye]

arakune's 7

Really?

It's always been 6.

[Herbal Grey]

WOW LOL i really woulda bet money that it was 7 lol, but watev good catch haha.

i tried it before with tager too, and his 5a was getting beat out whether i tried to furiously mash or time it (which is def 7 frames), while B-buster was working

[Jyosua]

Arakune loses despite his startup being 6 frames? Yeah that means his 5A definitely doesn't hit until later in the active frames.

[Herbal Grey]

just re-tested, arakune trades, tager still loses (although the animation for 5a comes out)

[StayFree( ' 3')]

just re-tested, arakune trades, tager still loses (although the animation for 5a comes out)

...fuckin a.

[Skye]

just re-tested, arakune trades, tager still loses (although the animation for 5a comes out)

Now that sounds about right.

[Watermelonz]

Okay, so here’s a combo that I often use to go into Arakune’s astral and it works for more than 95% of the time, and it covers all four versions of his astral. Basically, it starts with:

2A > 2A > A-bug > 5C > 4D (no hit) > C-bug > 632146D > D-bug > when D-bug is about chest height, 4A > rising D-bug > situation #1/2/3 (below)

After activating the astral and Arakune disappears, one of two things will happen. Most of the time, Arakune will reappear on the same side he was on and go into one of three versions of his astral, or he will reappear on the opposite side and go into the fourth version of his astral.

• If Arakune reappears on the same side he was on, go into situation #1. Situation #1, which is the easiest and happen about half the time, covers two versions of Arakune’s astral: the 2-bounce and the horizontal dash. Situation #2 is basically an extended version of situation #1, and will cover the version where Arakune does three vertical drops.
  
• Lastly, if Arakune reappear on the opposite side after activation the astral, go into situation #3. This will cover the version where Arakune does 3 bounces.
  
  The three situations:
  
  • Situation #1: after a-bug bounces, 5D > A-bug > D-bug > rising D-bug > Astral Finish or go into situation #2
    
  • Situation #2: rising D-bug from situation #1 > 4A (optional 4C) > mash 4D > A-bug (optional C-bug) > D-bug > Astral Finish
    
  • Situation #3: 4D > A-bug > D-bug > when D-bug is about head height, 4C > C-bug > 4A > A-bug > 4B B-bug> Astral Finish
    

  These combos can also be altered when in the corner. Instead of using 5A/B/C/D to summon bugs use 6/A/B/C/D, and instead of using 4A/B/C/D to summon bugs use 5A/B/C/D. The vertical drop version of the astral may actually be easier in the corner.

[Fluck]

Jyosua: You can gatling right after the first active frame that hits the opponent, otherwise Ragna's 5B (8 active frames) would have massive gaps going into almost anything else. So the gap between 5A 6D is actually always 6 frames and frame-traps opponent 2As.

[Skye]

Congratulations to Herbal Grey (brkrdv) for getting 3rd in BB EVO.

[Herbal Grey]

Congratulations to Herbal Grey (brkrdv) for getting 3rd in BB EVO.

:D thanks!

pretty pleased with my play...got hit by too many platinum bats, coulda utilized bug pressure during curse better, but oh well. got my j.b iad j.b to work a few times lol, other times not (huey was definitely getting salty in casuals later about ioh j.b combo'ing into the second j.b for full curse in the corner). i'll watch the matches again when my wallet isn't starving for that 1st place paycheck

[Mr.Biscuits]

Against James you should always 2A > 214C during curse to bait out the bats and Counter Assaults.

[Skye]

*3a > 214c

[Herbal Grey]

yeah i was able to bait it out a few times during curse, but what really killed me was getting hit by the bat a few times into the corner in neutral game when i just thought he wouldn't use it. i basically never got the chance to even throw out overheads or do extended pressure because he always had it.

[Skye]

I usually bait bat mashing with sj.d. When plat has bat, you have to play funky as hell.

[Mr.Biscuits]

yeah i was able to bait it out a few times during curse, but what really killed me was getting hit by the bat a few times into the corner in neutral game when i just thought he wouldn't use it. i basically never got the chance to even throw out overheads or do extended pressure because he always had it.

If Plat has bat just bait it out with Jump C. Free fatal for 100%