[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

[hipikachu]

It's Hell's Fang, so the knockback on Hell's Fang combined with it's load of negative frames on block should always net you a free CH 5B where 5A may not be able to reach. CH 5B>3C FTW. Unless he has 50 friggin heat

Edited June 24, 2013 by hipikachu

[LunaKage]

Oh, I thought you meant the first hit, because no Ragna in his right mind would ever do the second hit without heat on block.

Shit, it's hella rare to see a good Ragna even do the first hit on block, unless they were gonna use the scrub bashing mixup gimmick.

[hipikachu]

Oh, I was referring to the Ragna in his video. It looked like his sparring buddy. My bad, I should've given him more comprehensive Ragna matchup info. It's just the Ragnas on Vita PSN can get pretty dumb at times...

Well, I guess if there's anywhere he needs to begin, it's the basics.

Edited June 24, 2013 by hipikachu

[RockinGamma]

Oh, I was referring to the Ragna in his video. It looked like his sparring buddy. My bad, I should've given him more comprehensive Ragna matchup info. It's just the Ragnas on Vita PSN can get pretty dumb at times...

Well, I guess if there's anywhere he needs to begin, it's the basics.

OK, so I played today and got super bodied.And i tried punishing Hell's Fang but im not exactly sure which hit im supposed to punish.

And yes i play with that guy all the time.

[hipikachu]

OK, so I played today and got super bodied.And i tried punishing Hell's Fang but im not exactly sure which hit im supposed to punish.

And yes i play with that guy all the time.

I'm sorry for confusing you. Now, first of all, make sure you're punishing on block. You can't really do anything about him before the hit itself. Second of all, any serious Ragna would not be playing like your friend there, but you can take advantage of his bad habits on block by blocking both hits of the Hell's Fang, and immediately dashing CH 5B him during the recovery of the second hit. This goes into 3C. Only blocking the second hit would guarantee this kind of punish (unless he RC). When you block the first hit, you run the risk of being Inferno Dividah'd out of your punish attempt. If you respect him too much though, he'll reset pressure with 2A. This is why LunaKage suggested dashing 5A after the first hit, mostly because it's less risky, and smart Ragna's never go for the second hit on block. Unlike your friend there.

[toanenadiz]

You can punish the first hit of Hell's Fang. You just need to IB it and then it becomes -7 and your 5A will punish it.

[hipikachu]

You can punish the first hit of Hell's Fang. You just need to IB it and then it becomes -7 and your 5A will punish it.

True, I just wasn't sure whether he's ready to implement intentional IBs into his gameplay yet. And besides, this buddy of his has some bad habits of his own I would die to capitalize on.

[RockinGamma]

Alright. So I block both then dash 5b. Also, is there some kind of "footsies Game" in this game? or something i should be doing when not blocking or fighting?

Btw Sorry for not replying in so long. I was out of town.

[Litherain-XIII]

yes bb has a footies game but noel is pretty underwhelming in regards to that which we refer to as her neutral overall if im not mistaken. typically your 5B and 2A serves as your best footies tools in general. 5A and 5C have their uses but they require you to have experience to know when to use it in certain given situations otherwise you would probably get beat out of them majority of the time against other characters with more superior neutral options and pokes that are better than noels.

[RockinGamma]

Can you catch anyone with 6C after a Spring Raid?

[HexaNoid]

Can you catch anyone with 6C after a Spring Raid?

You can. LunaKage actually made a small tutorial on how to do it too.

[NeoMasamune]

Does anybody have any advice for connecting the d.236D after the d.4D from the first 5A corner combo in the wiki? I can get it up to that point consistently but the d.236 always whiffs

Here is the combo copied from the wiki

5A > 6A > 6C(2) > 66C > 4D > d.6C > d.214D > 446C > 5D > d.4D > d.236D > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5B > d.6B > d.5C > d.236D(1)

[Litherain-XIII]

Ok perhaps you're having trouble with the timing for the d.236D part in general. try to delay the input for 236D and it should go through. if you do it too fast after d.4D it will whiff so that's probably why other than you probably hitting the 5D part a bit too early in the combo. doing 5D while the opponent is relatively higher in the air can also make the 236D part whiff as well in some occasions even if you delay the timing but this is where you have to be aware of different character hitboxes regarding this. for example you can do this combo a lot easier on ragna or valk but may have trouble doing so with bang or lambda. but first try to delay the 236D.

[LunaKage]

That's my favorite combo :3

Height is your issue here, if 236D is whiffing, then d.4D hit them too high, meaning you either did 5D too soon, or you hit them with 446C too early/high.

[Litherain-XIII]

That's one of my favorite combos too bro XD lol

[LunaKage]

It also works on all of our normal jump-ins as well. With or without 5A, but either way you wanna microdash.

[NeoMasamune]

Ah, most likely I am doing the 5D too quickly. I'll have to practice more tonight

Another question: In some combos I've seen people do 22BB followed by a tiny gap and then continue the combo with a 22BBBC. How do you get the two silencers to connect with the gap in the middle? It always drops when I try. Are you supposed to do some sort if cancel between them?

[LunaKage]

No, those are probably CS2 videos anyway, since those combos are a bad idea in extend.

[Tsunayoshi]

Someone help me out with this combo : 5A > 6A > 6C(2) > 66C > 4D > d.6C > d.214D > 446C > 5D > d.4D > d.236D > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.5B > d.6B > d.5C > d.236D(1) I can't get past 66C > 4D Lol.

[Litherain-XIII]

um... ok maybe you are doing 66C wrong. try just doing 6C in place instead and see what happens. either you are dashing forward too fast to the point you cross under your opponent or your doing 4D too fast that d.6C is whiffing at this point. otherwise your problem is described in a somewhat vague manner.

[LunaKage]

microdash 6C should always be done in thst combo for consistency sake. Though you should probably delay the 4D if you keep catching them too high.

[hipikachu]

What I like to do delay 66C after 6C(2). It may not matter much, but do remember that the dummy can't tech until it hits the ground after the 6C(2) wallbounce, allowing you to catch them with 66C whenever you want. I found a very insignificant problem with 4D is that not delaying it enough causes the opponent to be launched higher than they should be, and delaying it too much causes 6C(2) to come out.

Either way, it's completely based non personal preference, so do whatever suits you.

[Tsunayoshi]

I got d.6C > 4D to work now I can't get 5D after AST > 446C > 5D whiffs completely.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Tsunayoshi

[LunaKage]

there's a good chance that you are hitting the 446C too late. so just try to speed it up.

[LiveWireX]

Yeah, that's a common problem I'll sometimes have. That, and when I'd first try to learn the input I'd wind up jumping for some random reason. Of course, if it really becomes a problem to where you can't get it down, you could always try things with double Bloom Trigger corner combos, though the timing is kinda specific and the damage output tends to occasionally suffer depending on the situations you'd be trying to do it in.