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HexaNoid

[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trG_PsuLLXA&feature=channel_video_title

Chain Revolver out the ass. Posting for a friend

1) Use your bursts. Ending every single match with two bursts left isn't a good thing, especially in the matches you lost. Get used to at least using them to get out of combos that corner you/deal large amounts of damage.

2) Use 6A > 2B rather than 6A > 6C when using 6A for anything that isn't a punish. If the 6A is a CH, you'll still get the combo. If they block it you get 2B, which is much better in blockstrings than 6C. If it's just a normal hit that you weren't expecting, just chase them down and reapply pressure.

3) Use 6B > 6C instead of 6B > 3C. You still get a combo if the 6B hits, and you get a comparably much-less-horrendous on block 6B instead of 3C if they block it.

Edited by Sahgren

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Here is me being a Drive spammer.

Tournament 101 that I completely ignored - If you're gonna buy earplugs from the chemist cause you're getting a headache from loud noises, make sure to buy freaking aspirin too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/808BBCommunity?feature=mhee

Also ignore the random 3C during Haida, The cabs had us squished together so I was playing at an angle.

My reset setups that day only worked against the Tager once in the corner and against Mystic D in Casuals, I really should look at if they're holding a direction when I look at someone's hands mid combo ;___;

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I SEE YOU RUNIS I SEE YOU.

Anyway, from what it looks like to me, that 22C reset you like to use kinda doesn't work if someone isn't teching air Neutral, which means it will never work on someone like me who does air-back tech out of habit.

Also driving that much against Tager is a huge risk, I'm surprised you got away with it like every time.

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What immediately comes to mind is that you used j.4D more than all your air normals combined when jumping in. j.4D is a juke and a crossup trick, remember to mix in others in order to keep them guessing on what you might do. At the very least use your air normals when jumping in for when j.4D wouldn't cross them up (and thus whiffs on the initial hit).

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It does, I just fuck up the super jump timing. Unless you mean the mid screen one in which case that was me having a finger slip and then reacting to it with a impromptu reset gimmick. I'm meant to look at your hands mid combo to see which way you're tech'ing before the 22C comes out. I didn't look, just relied on sound of mash. If I see you're holding back or know you do, I can s.jIAD and air throw your tech. There's this weird window when air throwing someone's tech where either they can't break it or the break window is tiny. Sydney scene hate my air-throw traps because they know its coming but just can't tech it.

As for drive against tager, I KNOW! LOL! Hawaii doesn't have a noel down here. They don't know how to deal with her, so I had to dumb down my entire game plan to compensate for them not knowing how drive works. Granted when I got the d.6C I watched him start churning butter so I tried to frame trap him into a d.5B d.2D to CH his butter.

And Sahge, Leave mah j.4D alone ;__________;

Its a bad habit I've got into from Sydney. I'm not used to people who aren't expecting to get air thrown/j.A spammed at an air-air situation. I just wish they didn't take away the Invuln frames :P Then it'd be uber broke.

Edited by Runis

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Oh yeah, that 22C corner reset is something that I'm trying out. The Hawaii guys said something about the stalls having 5 frames of lag. I didn't notice it that much (Since my girlfriend's tv also has some lag and I practiced all my haida's on that before the tourney) but it might be why I'm not getting a sj right after the 22C (since you have to be perfectly sweet spotted to catch every tech option with throw) Thought I'd see how well it works in a live match that isn't against people I'm going to be fighting at the Melbourne tourney this week. I didn't really use my standard corner reset, which I think I'll probably use a lot more due to how hard it is to not get hit by some part of it if you emergency tech.

You guys also aren't commenting on my use of non-standard combos? A 2D combo that can deal 5.2k to Jin is hard outside of CH.

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Random Trivia: In the PSP version of CS2, j.4D had full invuln until landing, it could beat Tager's 6A no matter how long he decided to charge it.

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0:35 - 5C > 3C only works on crouching opponents. Go for 5C > 6B > 3C if you think your opponent is holding :db: for an overhead into 3C or use 2C to end your string.

0:38 - If you ever use 2D on block against someone with a DP, make sure you try and confirm it into d.4D to avoid the DP. As you could see, there is a huge gap between d.5C > d.6C that can be easily beaten out by a DP (or Tager Buster).

1:06 - Sub-optimal combo. Try and use 6C > Throw whiff > 66C for the best damage or at the very least use OpticA after 6A > 6C.

1:23 - Spring Raid > Nothing? What happened?

2:30 - 6B > 3C on block. Use the 6B > 6C OS instead of going straight into 3C or Rapid Cancel your 3C to make it safe.

I looked at the other matches in your video, but the same general points I'm going to make should apply to all of them. Firstly, I noticed that you were getting counter-hit by Ragna a lot in that first match. You were doing well to stay out of his range and avoid his pokes while waiting for a good time to attack, but when that time did come you didn't seem confident enough to start initiating your own pressure. You should also try your best to keep your opponent at bay with 5B/C or even Optic Barrels to make them play your game if you don't want to RTSD all day. Basically, it's good to respect your opponents options, but make sure they remember to respect yours too.

Your execution isn't horrible but it does need work; you managed to pull off most of your combos with no problem minus one or two hiccups. However, the combos you were doing weren't actually optimal so you might want to check out the CS2 combo thread in the archive to learn some of her better combos (particularly those that use 22B > 22BBBC~66).

And I know you've already addressed this, but work on those hitconfirms. In the last round of the second match you hit Bang with a 5C and didn't RC into 66A, then you hit him with 6B and used 2D instead of 6C or 3C and there was another instance where you landed a 3C but didn't confirm it with 22BBBBC. To help this, make sure when you go in for an attack you have some sort of plan instead of throwing things out wildly or set a training dummy to block randomly and try and only follow up an attack when you land a hit.

I think that covers most of your problems. Grind out Noel's better combos until you can do them with your eyes closed and work on your neutral game and hitconfirms. If you have any other problems or questions feel free to ask.

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Hey guys ive been playing the game seriously for 2 months with Noel against higher level guys offline. Ive been improving but i seem to have alot of trouble playing against opponents who like to make their chars jump/double jump/cross up around alot while coming in with attacks that seem to beat her 6A (I havent tried 6C tbh).

Should Noel be intercepting with an air throw or a j. 5A/B/C or RB? Should I as the player wait while theyre in the air and have my Noel intercept them on reaction?

Also, on the ground, how can Noel get past long stretching attacks from opps, without it being sort of a guessing game? And I know ppl keep telling me that 5/2A is how you start pressure with her but how does she even get into that range relatively safely in the first place? Ive been looking on the forums but I feel like I dont really get this char as much as Id like to.

sry for lack of footage but help would be much appreciated.

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This kind of question is really more suited to the Questions Thread, but it's all good.

Unfortunately, there's not a lot Noel can do against aerial opponents in the way of anti-airing them; if your 6A isn't working, then you either need to block the attack, avoid it with a backdash or something or see if your 6As are messing up because of timing issues (such as against Makoto or Tager's j.2C for example).

Airthrows are also legit but you have to make sure you don't get predictable with them and you have to be pretty good with the timing so the aerial attack doesn't end up beating you out. 6C is a really bad AA and should only really be used in tech traps and RB AAs are just for trolling/being LunafuckingKage.

Your best bet for getting out of long pressure strings is your CA if you're in a real jam (i.e. against Rachel in the corner). It can be baited though, so be careful. Otherwise, it's just gonna be about whether or not you can get a lucky 2A in or something. As for starting pressure yourself, it's just about getting your opponent to respect your 'range' before you go in hard. 5B/C to keep them at bay then, once you've spaced them out a little and got them scared, you can dash in for some 2/5A pressure into shenanigans.

Hope this has helped.

Edited by HexaNoid

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Also keep in mind that if your opponent likes to jump alot, just read the jump and run straight under them and you're out of pressure.

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Welp, my turn to get critiqued and bashed.

2 videos against A.I. on Hard mode. Objective was to establish some mannerisms and habits that don't require mashing the fuck out of D.

Side note: Still not 100% familiar with the d.___ animations and how to efficiently link them together, so if you see me linking them, it's drive mashing.

I'll let you all judge. I think I have an idea on what to improve on (one of them is to get consistent with my inputs like Revolver Blast and Optic Barrel), but I want to see if it matches up or not.

1st one: VS Hazama

Some quick side notes:

@2:38 -- Audio goes back in time like 3 seconds and stays messed up for the rest of the video .... Idk how the fuck that happened.

@0:53 -- Missed revolver blast (j.236C), ended up doing 2C (or is it 3C, I can't tell lol)

@2:02 -- Was trying for optic barrel (236C) but I kept messing up the input

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tY5dodVdRw

2nd one: VS Tager

Some quick side notes:

@3:00 -- Audio goes back in time again ~_~;; Gonna have to do something different with future uploads.

@1:52 -- WTF INVULNERABILITY FRAMES? ._.

@X:XX -- LOL DAT LUCK -- Dw, you'll know where it is when you'll see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMzd2mrCED8

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@M.D. Orona

Some general pointers:

1) Don't use j.D in neutral. It has no horizontal hitbox, making it terrible if they jump. If it's blocked, you're stuck falling to the ground and the opponent gets a free punish before you can attack after landing. It's also used as a major portion of her combos whilst having heavy repeat proration, so you can't get much if it lands.

2) Stop trying to grab mid combo. Purple grabs, when not used for specific setups, are just letting the opponent out of a combo earlier than they should be. Here's the thread for Noel combos. Check there if you don't know what to do after a certain point, and ask here if you need help doing it.

3) Do 6A > 2B rather than 6A > 6C if you haven't hitconfirmed into it. If the 6A unexpectedly hits, the 2B will whiff and you get to chase them down and restart pressure. You get a combo if the 6A is a counter hit with 6A > 2B (whiff) > 66C, and you go into 2B for pressure if it's blocked, which is much better than 6C/2C.

4) Try to limit how much you're pressing buttons in neutral. You're attacking too much when you're far out of range to hit; that could get you into trouble against characters that can attack from a distance, and generally wastes the time you could spend positioning yourself or attempting to get in.

Other than that, get more used to the character. Spend some more time getting the feel for her normal attacks and experimenting with drive.

Edited by Sahgren

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Okay so I am improving, not enough to where I want to upload another video just yet.

But I do want to start learning these 2k+ combo's that are posted since significant damage is an area I'm still lacking in (mostly due to my inability to use drive without dropping a combo). Best I'm getting on average is 1-1.3k per combo and that's not enough =|

So I look at the first midscreen combo that isn't against a crouching target and .... I can't do it?

2/5A > 2B > 6A > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D – 2,285/33

2B seems to just create an inconvenient amount of distance between Noel and the target (in this case, Rachel, if that makes any difference), then 6A causes the final push for them to be too far away to continue the chain.

Is there a dash cancel or something that I'm missing in that chain?

(Side Note: Even 2B > 6A > 6C gets dropped QQ)

Oh, also. Wondering if this is CS1 or CS2 Noel's frame data. It was linked to me by Dev but I don't remember where he said he got it from nor can I figure out how old this is. Just want to make sure I'm looking at relevant data.

EDIT: I am an idiot, I should learn to start reading URL's.

And for those that were curious, I was looking at it, wondering what I can use to invul my way out of an over-aggressive Tager, but that's a different issue altogether =_=;

Edited by M.D. Orona

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Yeah don't bother with that combo just yet lol

Start with these:

(j.B > 66 >) 5A > 6A > 6C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

(j.B > 66 >) 5A > 6A > 6C > Throw Wiff > 66C > Throw Wiff > 66C > 5D > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236B

Crouching Opponent:

2A > 5B > 5C > 3C > 22BBBC~66 > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

5C > 3C > 22BBBBC~66 > 66C > 4D > d.6A(wiff) > d.5C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

Drive Starter:

2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > Throw Wiff > 6C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.6A > 214A > 2B > 6C > Throw Wiff > 6C > 22B > 22BBBC~66 > 66C > 236A > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D

Corner Combos:

Crouching 5C > 3C > 22BBBBBBC~66 > 66C(2) > 6C > 4D > d.236D > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D > Fenrir

2D > d.5C > d.6C > d.2D > d.623D > 66C(2) > 6C > 4D > d.236D > 66C > j.D > d.6D > d.6B > d.5D > d.5C > d.236D > Fenrir

These are some good beginner combos, and some of them I still use to this day, so they are still useful even when your execution gets better.

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*yawn* Long week. Really tired. Got like 4 days off for the next week. Let's see if I can actually learn something in this time frame.

From what I can tell, biggest areas of improvement for me are in Blocking (as opposed to backward/air dashing for safety), Throw techs, and combo execution. Anything else I should add onto that list?

Granted, this is a Tager fight but hopefully it serves as a point of reference for where I'm at now skill-wise.

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*yawn* Long week. Really tired. Got like 4 days off for the next week. Let's see if I can actually learn something in this time frame.

From what I can tell, biggest areas of improvement for me are in Blocking (as opposed to backward/air dashing for safety), Throw techs, and combo execution. Anything else I should add onto that list?

Granted, this is a Tager fight but hopefully it serves as a point of reference for where I'm at now skill-wise.

More general pointers:

Try to avoid using supers outside of combos. If they're blocked, it's a waste of 50 meter that you could've used for RCs and CAs.

On that note, try to avoid using supers unless it's going to kill them. It's much better to be able to RC to make an unsafe move safe (ala 3C) or CA out of pressure you'd rather not sit through than it is to get the extra ~1000 damage. You get 1000+ off of 5A > 5B > 5C > 2C, there's no need to spend 50 meter for that much damage if it isn't necessary.

Spend a bit more time getting used to drive, you still seem to just be hitting buttons rather than attacking with a purpose. You landed some 2D hits, but didn't convert them into combos. 2D leads into 5k, it's best not to squander the hits you get.

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*yawn* Long week. Really tired. Got like 4 days off for the next week. Let's see if I can actually learn something in this time frame.

From what I can tell, biggest areas of improvement for me are in Blocking (as opposed to backward/air dashing for safety), Throw techs, and combo execution. Anything else I should add onto that list?

Granted, this is a Tager fight but hopefully it serves as a point of reference for where I'm at now skill-wise.

Tager specific, you really don't want to use drives a lot against him since he can sledge through it and do other stuff lol. Other than that I agree with Sahgren for the most part. :3

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