[/] Slash Johnny Matchup Thread

[cube-mikael]

Just to point it out, Sol can never use Gun Flame in pressure if Johnny has level 2 MF, and that helps Johnny out alot. Also, if Sol dash breaks Johnny's normal pokes, Johnny will have the advantage through MC/coin. And on the flipside of dashing in/guessing is the fact that if the Johnny player guesses right, it'll hurt. And this part is true against any fast characters. I don't really know what the final matchup is, but it's not all bad for Johnny.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Worse comes to worst, neutral tech against VV, then jS (CH), land, combo.

[RedBeard]

Just to point it out, Sol can never use Gun Flame in pressure if Johnny has level 2 MF, and that helps Johnny out alot.

Also, if Sol dash breaks Johnny's normal pokes, Johnny will have the advantage through MC/coin.

And on the flipside of dashing in/guessing is the fact that if the Johnny player guesses right, it'll hurt. And this part is true against any fast characters.

I don't really know what the final matchup is, but it's not all bad for Johnny.

1. That's not true at all. Period. It's not like if Johnny is in the middle of pressure he can whip out MF Level 2. He's in too much blockstun. Besides, if Sol FRCs it he can just block and you just wasted a level 2(which you need more in this matchup than most)

2.. The whole point of Sol dashbreaking is that he dashbreaks outside of Johnny's laggy ass pokes then gets in for free. All of Johnny's longer range pokes have horrid, horrid lag on it. Not only this but if Johnny decides to do ANY ground poke, period, Sol can IAD in with j.S and there's nothing you can really do. Again, you are forced to guess.

3. Yes, if Johnny guesses right he lands tons of damage. If he guesses wrong he will take less initial damage, but then he is locked down and in a world of shit because Sol owns his face up close. If Johnny does big damage he just knocks Sol away. Sol doesn't really get locked down by Johnny because Johnny can't realistically lock him down that well, it's too risky.

Really, it's not that hard for Sol to get in on Johnny. Perhaps he'll take some damage doing so but once he gets in he's on a huge advantage. If Sol has 50% tension, Johnny cannot safely pressure him. Not only will Sol turn his pressure on Johnny, but he will do 200 damage in the process. VV RC=Complete ownage. You can be DESTROYING Sol, and he lands one of those and it's anyone's game.

In the end the matchup isn't horridly skewed either way. I still put it in Sol's favor in Slash, but that's me. Often the argument is that it's impossible for Sol to get in on Johnny. It goes both ways. Johnny cannot get in on Sol, at all.

[Jo]

I actually play this match up a lot. SOvJO, anyway. I can provide some input, I don't know if it'll be much use but, here goes nothing. 1- Start of the match: Sol players tend to use standing S at the start. Little known fact, you can 2P if you know this is coming and you get a counterhit. Not entirely USEFUL, but it stuffs that oncoming 5S and makes your opponent go "Uh?" 2- If you've successfully backed Sol into a corner, he pretty much knows jumping is out of the question unless he's a big fan of FD'ing. So the first thing he may want to do is run in and knock you down! 2D out of a run is too delicious for a Sol player to give up. Backdash the oncoming Sol and 6HS, you should hit him for whiffing that 2D. He'd be a little more cautious after that one. 3- It is definitely possible to mist finer out of a gunflame right through Sol's pressure if you've been IBing properly or if you've FD'd an attack or two. But the downside is the FRC, so try a low level 2 instead. Sol's initial block after an FRC gunflame may not be a low one. ;D 4- Dropping combos on Sol is irritating. Don't let that stop your pressure though! Once you get your pressure going again and you FEEL a VV coming, don't forget that Johnny can JC>FD his dash! That's really useful and can get you out of a couple of sticky situations. 5- Work on your blocking/watching for command throw set ups. Command throws usually work best right after a blocked burst/DAA. Something that makes you think twice about your mistake (IE obvious burst/lousy DAA timing). Don't hesitate to stick out a 2P or even a c5S. Johnny's c5S is quicker than it looks (to me, anyway). The Sol match up definitely takes a lot of patience. Just watch out for random Grand Vipers at times and Sol's jumping ppppppp VV. Divine blades are good for Sol too, just try to use them sparingly with some meter to spare (and jump install; gotta be safe). If you whiff an air throw and it leaves you higher than you expected and Sol is waiting for you below, try to drop a divine blade (if you can. Sometimes you're too high and the frames for jHS are just ending). If that Sol likes to use 5K on reaction to your air games, he'll eat a CH divine blade. Hope this helps. I should start posting more. Edit: Also, what I just put here, guess it's more of an "up your spacing" game tidbit. 2S is decent to catch a Sol during a run due to it's solid range. Just, mist cancel it please. :D

[4r5]

2HS is my new best friend. We'll have to see how long this relationship lasts.

[Tage*Proto]

I find 2hs is really Johnny's saving grace against Chipp. It's a great move in a lot of match-ups, but really shines against Chipp IMO.

[4r5]

2HS is a good move, as long as you don't whiff.

[JOFan]

mabe its just me but when fighting against sol i find it easier to combo dbfrc stuff if i: do a lvl2 low, then dash k(8) blah blah.. do a lvl 2 mid then close S(8), blah blah...

[JOFan]

JO vs KY tip pls. any way to punish or discourage use of stun dipper? that thing has good startup and combo into knockdowns easily... -_- also does JO have anything that beat ky flat out in air? i tried j.p and j.s...both didnt work as well as i had anticipated. and lastly, how does one catch a front techer? JO takes forever to jump up.. even when i super jump it i can barely catch em.

[tj3ssa1]

well i play against ky fairly often and all i gotta say is Instant Block a LOT. you can punish stun dipper if he doesn't FRC or RC it if you instant block the 2nd hit and if you're quick enough you can throw him out of it if you IB the 1st hit. i usually do 5s(far) after stun dipper fails. if he FRCs or RCs it tho, keep blocking. and try to bait stun dipper by throwing coins & mist canceling more often, then you can just jump up and do what you want from there. in short, no. ky beats jo in the air pretty much. unless it's from a really far distance, then j.s is a pretty good air poke. other than that, ky pretty much wins in the air unless you air throw him (which is what i usually do). just 6p, catch him with 6k, or hit him with a coin on his way down if you're able to. don't go air to air vs ky. and i dunno for sure. i just take lucky guesses sometimes when they front tech and either catch them with air throw by super jump or double jump. either that or sj.D and if it connects you can land ensenga afterwards (decent bit of damage). that's pretty much all i got. hope something i said works out for ya.

[4r5]

Blocking blocking stun dipper is a pretty good deterent. If you want to be fancy, you can forward dash over the first hit and throw him before the second hit. You can try and hit him out of the start, but that's pretty hard to do consistently. Best bet is to block. Going air to air with Ky can be tricky. Your saving grace is that you jump higher then him. All sorts of ways to catch front techers. Airthrow, 6P, 5P, coin, 236P.... edit: if they RC/FRC the stun dipper, I FDsuperjump to avoid the throw. you jump higher then him; spam DBfrc's more clarification on catching techers. alot of catching techers is just staying on the ground and watching what they do. Keep track of their remaining airjumps/airdashes and keep yourself in a posistion where you can punish a mistake. When you see a mistake is when you go in for the punish. Sometimes people tech as soon as possible and airdash, and alls that's left for you to do is dash in their direction and wait for them to land into your 6P. Other times people get trickier and save their techs and airjumps for when you commit yourself to an action then punish you.

[A3Religion]

Alright I definitely need some advice on how to get out of Ino's lockdowns when she starts them. I usually avoid them all together but sometimes its unavoidable. So any ideas on breaking free of the pressure string into one of her long, and very painful combos?

[excelence]

6p? wouldn't that works against I-No starting Pressure string?

[Honnou]

At some point in Ino's pressure string, she will have to: 1) Chemical Love FRC AD 2) Stroke the big tree 3) Fireball (probably frc too) to repressure. If you're a good enough blocker, and can wait her out til one of these points, there are ways out from there (6p after the HCL frc ad, jackhound the note, use a well timed attack vs stroke the big tree, etc). If she's staying closer with overhead/low mixes and redashes, if you can see the redash and do 5p, coin, or 5p, 5s air combo, that works too, but if she baits this, you're in for a world of pain. If Ino's first attack is an overhead, i.e. dashing jk/js, fd-ing it really pushes her back and kills a lot of her next options.

[A3Religion]

I use 2P, coin, 5p, and 2HS also I do use the Jackhound on the note. Sometimes I even IB and do them and somehow still get hit. But I like the idea of looking out for those three moves thanks that will help.

[CrimsonDisaster]

IB doesn't always guarantee a punish or escape, so just focus on IBing at points where you are pretty sure you'll get something out of it. I-No pressure is all kinds of weird to IB out of, though.

[JOFan]

I agree, Testament really doesn't have many ways to keep Johnny off him once Johnny forces a block. In a neutral situation, Johnny has the advantage. His pokes are generally better, for one thing.

hi guys,

i dug this up since i needed some testament tips but how do u go about beating testaments web xx 6p or 2k oki setup in the corner? in my case i kinda guess which one it is and go from there...as well.. what can JO do against testament that do the counter stuff during rush down.. is there a safe string i should know against him to prevent being knocked out of pressure + poison?

[Rift]

I like to Jackhound RC then start my own pressure if I'm being rushed down. But I have a similar problem if I don't have enough tension for that. If I get poisoned, the Jackhound RC then throw is a great way to fix the problem. Most opponents won't react quick enough to stop the throw, so you can save your ass from the poison fairly quickly. But this technique might not be the best way, and it might get predictable if you face the same testament player very often. As for safe strings, try abusing the coin for pressures, and IAD DB FRC, maybe? Someone got a better way?

[RedBeard]

In the corner if Testament webs you and goes to mix you up your only choices are OD or DAA. If your Testament is the type of opponent who thinks he's safe after webbing, Throw or OD him if he always just blindly rushes you. Or just DAA. Or just block or FD or whatever. Basic defensive stuff is your option. Just remember if you wakeup throw to block the net or Testament actually gets a free combo if he neutral techs. Now, midscreen pressure there is actually something really sick you can do that I do against Testament all the time. If you're decent with backdash timing, just do it. It's a get out of jail free card against all of Testament's basic pressure unless he starts it with FRC EXE Beast. If he webs then tries to 6P you, it's a free 2D->Mist Finer or Jackhound->tons of damage. If he does 2K you're neutral. If I have 50% tension this is usually where I RC Jackhound to force a mixup. Against Testament you never really want to let up on him, but don't be reckless or whatever. Just don't back off. Stay just outside of his poke range and harrass him so he can't back off and turtle. A few things I do to get in on Testament are jackhound RC, coin and wavedash in after it, IAD j.H, TK Ensenga, or 6H. I especially like to distance myself just out of his sweep/f.S/2D range, wait for a flinch or a poke then 6H. Just be careful of Hitomi if you plan to use Jackhound. Make sure you watch the trees. In general in the match you just want to land a random poke then rush him down and mix him up. Just be careful of Nightmare Circular and 2H. Don't just blindly Mist Cancel pressure, make sure you toss in coins cause they'll save you from Nightmare Circular and 2H. A lot of Testaments I play tend to try to counter the coin or 2H after I toss a coin to go past it. The 2H actually works pretty well against Johnny's pressure as if you dash or whatever the 2H hits you. So just be careful and be ready to 2D mid pressure. Ok that was probably not that helpful but that's pretty much how I play against Testament. I can't stress enough to not let him totally back off. Always be threatening and learn to get in his face without putting yourself in too much danger.

[JOFan]

thanks for the feedbacks guys. i will try and incorporate more JHRC stuff into my game more and will definitely play a bit more aggressive. that 2h of testi's did gave me quite a bit of trouble but 2h rc 6k kinda deterred one of the local testis when u say jackhound rc mixup.. what exactly do u do? is it fast enough to get a grab? i just kinda vary my rc timing so i either end up infront or behind em.

[RedBeard]

Front/back/overhead/low/throw/throw bait. It is an insanely good mixup for 50% tension. Just be sure not to RC too quickly and then do a low hit or something on the other side as they will block it by default if you do it too quickly(game mechanic to prevent instant crossups) More specifically...2K, 2K on the other side of him, pause a moment and throw on either side. Instantly Dust. TK DB FRC. 2K->c.S->TK Ensenga. Instant Backdash->TK Ensenga etc. These are just the basic mixups you get off of it.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Also sweep, though that's hard to hit-confirm.

[Johnny Ringo]

any advice for dealing with Eddie and Chipp?

[4r5]

Eddie: Aside from never letting him have little Ed. Stand inside of far drill, and outside of close drill and poke away. If far drill, do whatever. If close drill, IAD, lvl2 MF through it, Jackhound, OD, Coin over it... Stand close enough that when ever he tries to summon, you slap him. If he gets a summon and makes you block, then I hope your good at blocking and anticipating the throw. Chipp: Hitting him is hard, but at least you hit him hard. If you ever come up to UMBC, or if I ever get access to a car, or if you come up to the c3 tournaments, then I can show you a thing or two.

[Rift]

I have alot of experience fighting against hit-and-run chipp players...but I don't have that many tips, really. Maybe 2H, 5D, dust combo against a running in chipp...I mean, worst case scenario if blocked? Like 4r5 said, you hit him hard. Just be cautious and make sure you nail your combos, because you can basically kill chipp if you land a hit on him twice. I also like to throw out a coin if chipp does teleport FRC. If he teleport FRCs in front of me, he gets coined. If he gets behind me I will either throw a coin, or accidentally Jackhound from the crossup (depending on the timing of my input), which at least puts me in a safe position.