[CS2] Valkenhayn Vs. Noel

[NickExtreme1]

Discuss the Valkenhayn vs. Noel match-up here.

Punishes:

Blocked 3C: 5B close range or 5C mid range (no Instant Block required). Since Noel will be crouching when punishing 3C, it can be comboed afterwards with 5B > 5C > 236C > XXXX.

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

[Kiba]

I have been playing this matchup with some time, and overall it's generally a nuisence since Noel's Drives are faster in a chain. However, it's also more annoying for me mainly probably because unfortunately my movement with Valk is still in the developing stage. I'm going to give very little information though because I'm still not completely knowledgable on Valk. Usually w/o a reversal/dead angle you usually have to sit and take what Noel does to you unless you're a risk taker in which case you could use 6A?

Punishes:

If the Noel player uses 3C, you can punish it with 5B, and it does not require an IB. Since Noel will be crouching you can do 5B - 5C - 236C - XXXX

[Toasty]

Punishes:

If the Noel player uses 3C, you can punish it with 5B, and it does not require an IB. Since Noel will be crouching you can do 5B - 5C - 236C - XXXX

I would recommend using 5C to punish 3C, since the 3C will sometimes push you out of range for 5B. You can still do the follow-up that you mentioned, however.

[Sahgren]

2C is useful on the Noel's wake up since it shuts down any attempts at them using 4D/2D to get a drive reversal on wake up. You're still susceptible to another attempt when following up with 6B or 6C on block, but you can always go into 5C/3C if you feel like not risking it.

[w]j.B is amazingly useful for the same reason 2C is; it shuts down 4D and makes the timing on a 2D reversal considerably stricter for them. When it's possible to go into [w]j.B (ie: not after a 236A/B wolf cancel) use it instead of j.A every time. Giving up the potential of getting an air combo if you catch them in midair is well worth not having to worry about 4D/2D.

[OrionXElite]

How easy is it to keep her out with good footsies?? I've only played the matchup twice and we both flail around like idiots :P

[Sahgren]

How easy is it to keep her out with good footsies?? I've only played the matchup twice and we both flail around like idiots :P

I can't really say all that much since my neutral game, and by extension my footsies, isn't exactly good. From what I have experienced, she really can't do all that much about [h]5B/5C, since both out range her and aren't the easiest to get past with 5d/2D. Her air to ground options aren't that great and have trouble with [w]5B and well timed [h]5A/2C, just be careful of possible j.4D attempts to juke past your AAs. The part that worries me is that she's fast enough that whiffing something means that she's pretty much guaranteed to get into her own range.

It should be possible to out zone her with good footsies since Valk's normals > Noel's normals, and the meaty C attacks and wolf mode are amazingly good at shutting down attempts at her using Drive to get in.

[Kiba]

Despite 5B/5C being good for footsies, Noel can get around it by using 3C whilst trying to get in. A good Noel player may guarantee 4.9k meterless and corner carry...

[Sahgren]

Noel can use 3C, yeah. On the other hand, that's a rather large risk for the Noel player, since you can punish a blocked 3C into 3-4k and guaranteed corner carry from almost any range. Figure out how willing the Noel player is to take that risk and respect that option accordingly, since that could swing the round in either's favor.

[OrionXElite]

I personally hate playing footsies with Noel cause I rage out every time my 5C gets stuffed by her 5A. Her 5A is almost CS1 Bang status now its fucking infuriating. I've had a lot more success playing Air to Ground for few different reasons. First, you can easily bait her 6A and make her shit for it. Second, if you can space it right, the risk/reward for her throwing 6A goes down significantly. If you're point blank when she AA's you and she confirms it right, you die but if you can space it to the end of her 6A's hitbox, shes not able to confirm the same and you only take about half the damage. Point blank she can confirm into 6C into her Haida bullshit and it ends up being like 4k with full corner push. Spaced out further, she has to confirm into dash>5B/5C into her air combo which only gets her about 2k. She has her stupid 6A OS which is to ALWAYS throw 6A>2B because you can still pick up the combo after a 6A and 6A>2B is free pressure except to MAYBE IB>DP from like Ragna but I never bothered to check. So my personal advice is to move around her a LOT.

If you're gonna play a ground game against her, you have to use a lot of 2B. She can't go under it, it'll go under a few of her moves and it confirms into 5B/5C easily. If shes trying to duck under your shit with 2C/3C, you'll stuff her and can confirm into 5C>Rozen into whatever. OH and when she doesn't meter, watch for wakeup 4D or 2D since they both have frame 1 invul to their respective attributes. Its annoying that you have to guess which one she'll mash on:v: But if you're feeling risky, you could throw a meaty 2C and that should beat both of them. I'm not home to test it but I will when I get the chance.

[Kiba]

Thanks guys!

OH and when she doesn't meter, watch for wakeup 4D or 2D since they both have frame 1 invul to their respective attributes. Its annoying that you have to guess which one she'll mash on:v: But if you're feeling risky, you could throw a meaty 2C and that should beat both of them. I'm not home to test it but I will when I get the chance.

2C beats any of them cleanly as Sahgren pointed out earlier. In the corner we're talking like 5K + meterless so the Noel will need to be careful about their wakeup options. I just always do it because I don't want to get into the drive bullshit.

[OrionXElite]

Ah ok I didn't read the earlier posts so I didn't know it had already been pointed out that 2C will beat both options. 2C actually nets you 6k meterless and you build nearly 70 meter to throw a super in there if you want. This changes my whole thought on the matchup actually. The risk reward is surprisingly in Valk's favor despite the fact that Noel usually just herp derps her way out of shit.

Stupid bitch ain't gonna drive spam me no more :3

[Leo7]

If you end up blocking her drives, and she goes into a drive blockstring, you can 6A the overhead kick drive before it comes out and IIRC you can also 6A the spinny gun (6C) drive if you're close enough (edit: mid-string 2D and optic barrel cancel as well if close enough). Everything else is risky. Just pay attention to what drive strings the Noel is commiting to.

[Verard]

Probably common knowledge to everyone, but wolf cannons are nice for punishing whiffed 4D if the Noel is drive happy when you try an approach.

[Kiba]

Don't let something like this happen to you guys. I've had it done to me on countless occasions.

Whilst doing that, one time I managed to 2A her out of it, but since it was once I'm not sure if it was completely viable.

[Sahgren]

Don't let something like this happen to you guys. I've had it done to me on countless occasions.

Whilst doing that, one time I managed to 2A her out of it, but since it was once I'm not sure if it was completely viable.

IB > 2A/6A is a viable way of knocking Noel out of drive. She has just so many holes in her drive pressure that it really helps to test out when you're allowed to hit buttons. Trick is just watching out for the strings that let you poke out.

[Verard]

Fun little tidbit, 6C will actually beat out Fenrir on Noel's wake up if you do it early enough. Valkenhayn will be above the initial gunpoke hitbox.