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[VS] Victor: The Curse Of Frankenstein

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VS_Header_Victor.png

http://vsav.mizuumi.net/wiki/Victor

Hit boxes

http://darkstalkers.moryou.com/savior/data-s/victor-s/victor-s.html

Really quick pros and cons

Pros:

Big Damage

Great priority (j.lp, j. lk, j.hp, electrified ground normals)

Good range on normals

One of the best anti airs in the game (electric c.hp)

Electric normals do chip damage & nulify projectiles

unique mix-ups which can easily avoid knockdowns

best air normal in the game. J.hp

Cons:

Slow movement speed

Big hitbox

Hard to get in sometimes

I'll steal Fayk's post a little later :keke:

- c.lk c.mp c.mk s.hp: his main chain combo. remember to press the buttons and not quick tap

them to get the electricity from his medium and strong normals. you can mix up after the

electric hp.

- c.lk, +s.lp c.lk, c.lk c.mk s.hp: this one is pretty long and hard to get used to, but it's

very good and has a lot of options to go on. first if they GC the s.lp, the c.lk goes under

at a distance and you can punish their GC. c.mk also avoids GC if they tried to GC a c.lk.

- c.lk, +s.lp xx ES spin punch: this is very good against Bishamon and another Victor since

they crouch high and will get hit by the spin punch if they're hit reguardless if they were

crouching or standing. if it's another character you'll have to confirm if they were standing

too. after the ES spin punch, you can also do a hp spin punch to combo afterwards. Timing is

strict though.

- c.lk, +c.lk c.mk s.hp: this is good because you have time to confirm if you want to

continue the chain, and avoid GC's at the same time with a far c.mk.

- dash lk +c.lk c.mp c.mk s.hp: be careful that short crouchers can crouch the dash lk. but

this is a decent dash link.

- s.mp c.mk, +s.mp c.mk c.hk OR c.lk s.hp (tap for no electricity): this is more of a fun

combo to use. usually after the s.mp c.mk, you would just confirm for a s.hp. but you can

also make use of the long hitstun of electric c.mk if you want to be flashy.

- ES knee, hp spin punch: you can get this from a GC, or normally.

- jump in lp lk: 2 hitter jump in.

- jump in mk: far distance jump in.

- jump whiff lp, hp jump in: the hp has a lot of hit stun.

- jump whiff lp, late lk: looks like you will empty jump in, but you hit them with a late lk.

- jump whiff lp, land c.lk and chain: you empty jump in and punish their AG or GC.

-s.lpXX ES spinny punch, ES spinny punch

*victors bitchslap is top tier, and the 2nd spinny punch finishes the combo w/ 2 extra hits(7 total)

c.mk/s.mp(*), +s.lpXX ESqcb2P

*make sure to hold the m#(increased hit stun)

d.lk, +c.lpXXES headbutt.

d.lk, +c.lp, c.lk, +c.lp, +c.lpXX ES Headbutt

* This is the meat of the last combo of the skillsmith vol 1 vid. I couldn?t get it to work. I?m pretty sure the other character being in DF mode affects combos(probably increased hitstun)

d+3K=hop? prolly good for 360?s & stuff(decent for corps hopping, though remember the other guy controls where he gets up). You can?t do anything during this hop? who cares, its still good

*spinny punch absorbs projectiles(maybe only energy? needs to be checked)

*electrified normals do chip damage!

Throw setups(preceed to follow at your own risk... some I have made up...)

-punch throw(teched or unteched ), nj/forward, throw(360 or electric squeeze)

-blocked knee uppercut->throw

--a.Setups for blocked knee

---dash->knee

---hop->knee

---blocked lp/lk->knee

-wiffed charge big fist(charge d->u+p)->throw

*this move recovers almost instantly... naturally. so, if the opponent isnt quick to punish, & is still on the ground, 360+p that shit.

-ground combo ended w/ electrified c.fierce->jumpin/dashing->throw

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This is his mix-ups.

1057701anyone planning on hitting evo this year? I'll be there and I intend to pretty much campout at the byoc area. I'll have VS and a few other things with me.

Been playing alot of Victor and Bishamon lately.

Generally I try and move the opponent to the corner and keep him there.

depending on the distance I'll end a string with cr. Fierce(elec) or standing Fierce(elec)

Off of a Cr. Fierce, I'll do a couple of things.

walk up, 360

walk up, F+MP throw to reset them, occasionly mix in the follow up every so often

If they tech the throw I'll follow with the DP + K. Depending down on the timing you will either have it blocked(which again is another throw setup) or you can whiff it and throw as they land. or follow up with a walk up 360. And of course I'll mix in chains as well

Off a standing Fierce

I'll jump in with a deep fierce. The animation will start but the attack will whiff. throw, knee, whatever mixup from there. Or the Fierce will hit and stuff a good deal of things. This can also be done from the CR. Fierce but It works better for off the standing version(more ambigious)

other stuff I do with victor

I like to mixup the electrics with regular normals. People will get accustomed to the recovery of the elec version and get punished when you do a regular attack with less lag.

To be honest I've been beasting on CVS2 players with this so I'm not sure how useful it is against legit Vampire Players.

I didnt see this in the regular notes, but Victor's elec normals stuff projectiles. not really news, but some newer players may not have noticed it yet.

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By Korey from Facebook:

Victor Basics

Normals:

Victor has an interesting set of normals, because he can electrify his medium/hard attacks to make them stronger and have them do chip damage. This also makes them slower for some normals, so be careful if you're trying to poke with them. The main ones I'd suggest are elec. mp, low elec mp, stand elec mk, and crouch elec mk. Stand. elec HP is okay, but you have to watch out because it has big startup and big recovery. Victor's low elec HP is one of the best AA's in the game, if timed right. you can also use non elec low HP to AA, but it tends to trade. Not too badly though, because Victor has high health.

Specials:

Imo, Victor's specials aren't useful by themselves but they can be worked into combos/blockstrings for really scary tricks and some damaging combos. Lariat beats out certain projectiles. ES Lariat beats out all ES projectiles except for Jedah's. His DP isn't good for AA, as it gets beaten or trades a lot. But , what it is good for is whiff shenanigans/ pressure. Use it in a block string like low lk, low lk, whiff dp and then you get a pretty scary mixup. Headbutt should be used sparingly, if at all. use it to punish people who are being stupid. Big Arm should be used to punish certain fireball characters and to finish in combos, because it can OTG. 360 is your standard fare, but you have to be within hugging distance to land it.

Supers:

Slam Dunk is alright for punishing, but don't expect to ever land it on good people. It's easy to react to since Victor has to Down back for it. 720 is also very scary if you can work it into block strings/ mixups. dash 720, whiff dp 720 very scary.

Air2Air:

Vic has some awesome A2A attacks. Jump lp, mp, hp, mk and hk are all good, with HP being probably the best. But vary it up to switch your timing/angle. Air chains for victor are scary because you can mixup as soon as you hit the ground.

General strategy:

You can play Victor any way you want, but personally I like to play a more mixup/mindgame oriented Victor. Victor can use s.mp/c.mp and s.mk at certain distances to counter hit people and stop potential rushdown attempts. He's also got a semi decent dash pressure game that eventually can lead up to a counter hit or mixup situation. It's all about being Scary with Victor. You want to condition your opponent, and then start wailing on them with big damage mixups.

Basic Combos:

low lk, stand lp > Es Lariat> HP Lariat (standing only)

Jump in> low lk> DP

Low lk, low elec mp, low elec mk, low elec hk, dash pursuit attack

low lp, low lk, low elec mk, low elec hk

(Reset) low lp, low lk, low elec mk, stand hp (you can use crouch hp if you're close enough) <--- this combo allows for a free reset situation/ safe jump.

low lp, low lk, low elec mk, low elec hk > OTG Big Arm

Dark Force:

Is used as an 'Oh Shit!, GTFO ME' option against ground based pressure. The lp+lk and mp+mk versions make victor's standing strong and fierce attack throws(akin to shuma gorath's lvl 3 super). This defensive strategy utilizes the invincibility of the df activation to get out of pressure. Sequence of use is simply:

df pop, mp/hp throw, deactivate after knockdown.

Very effective at creating space. not viable against characters who are whoring out aerials upclose (i.e. qbee)

Hp+HK makes all of victor's standing/dashing medium and heavy strength normals their respective close electrified versions. [at this point in time] Never use it, ever. Period

Guard Cancel (DP+K):

Vic's GC is alright although it can be airblocked by certain characters. Be careful about what you GC with it.

The games primary "grappler" is Victor.

A few things on this:

1.) The game mechanics don't facilitate throws as well as Third Strike, GG, BB, ST etc. You will only be landing these when your opponent is choosing to block. Be sure to condition your opponent to stop jumping and hitting buttons before you attempt these set-ups.

2.) Every character has a command throw. Some are ranged, some are lunging and some are more effective than others.

Victors has some good tools to help commit your opponent to blocking. I believe his J.hp is one of the best air moves in the game.

Lastly, the best victor in Japan is called "Oboro". This is funny b/c another character (bishamon) has a secret boss form called "Oboro Bishamon". Hence this guy is soo godlike he makes Victor look like a boss character.

Here's a good vid of an effective Victor:

http://www.youtube.com/user/neojinbe#p/u/661/C7_f03vkBMo

Further Victor info in addition to what was already said --

In addition to the mention of Oboro for or Japanese victor, but FLoE plays a solid victor (and sas sometimes) in some of the recent Savior tournaments.

Throws:

Victor has throws on MP, HP, and MK or HK (maybe both)

MP: Lower damage, but they flip upwards into the air and reset, so you can use this to mix them up on their wakeup. Usually your better option (Esp. when you are good).

HP: Higher damage, knocks down. Potential for pursuit followup.

Kick throw: I find these less useful, but they can be good for getting away or towards a corner because of how far he throws them.

Command throws:

His punch command grab is great. It can't be teched like a normal throw, so if you have a solid setup for it, it'll get em! Learn to set it up, but the game's pace means you have to really train your opponent to block and such.

His kick based command throw is techable, so mostly garbage.

Supers:

His 720 super (buttgrab) does massive damage and where you should be using your meter (or ES moves in some situations), if you can learn to set it up. Scrubby players like me mostly do this on jumpin or wakeup on a foolish opponent. Great players like Oboro will buffer it on a whiffed attack normal / dash attack.

His other super (the electricity) is pretty limited use, but has its moments. It has huge recovery though, and slow startup. The first part (the axehandle) can hit as well as the electricity that arcs out.

Other stuff:

His pursuit is much more limited than other characters, and very slow. It's not worth whiffing for meter like some chars. Still, some setups have a pretty much guaranteed pursuit/ES pursuit followup. I think this includes his GC, but I haven't played lately so don't remember.

His guard cancel is decent - not amazing, but solid, unlike the super slow ones that, say, Aulbath(Rikuo) or Hsienko have.

Like others mentioned, his j.HP is great. Neutral jump is a different version (but quite good hitbox too, and one frame faster startup I think) that knocks down on hit. Be careful of other characters with a really good jumping attack. j.HK is underrated (not as safe a hitbox as HP, but really subtly further reach) in my opinion. j.LP is good if you can predict them jumping and want to stuff them in air to air. Always chain to another air attack on contact after j.LP, generally - for meter or hits.

edit: he also has a command throw on all standing punches when in (one of his two) his Dark Force mod. It's fun as hell, but when you're new, it's gonna get you killed unless your opponent is new, because it has forced recovery when it ends, giving your opponent a free punish..

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that fb post is all Korey.

I only added the blurb about dark forces

and I think the caption to the title should be: "Shake that ass, show them what you workin with"

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From Youthenasia @SRK. Post#2236

off the top of my head:

watch match videos from oboro, by FAR the best victor there is.

his non electrified normals have less recovery than electrified so end your strings with those if your opponent is blocking.

abuse the knee DP, every version is good but specially LK and ES.

c.lk, -c.lp, c.lk, c.mp(electric), c.mk(electric), c/s.hp(electric) for BnB, will reset your opponent and give you time to setup alot of things.

dashing lp / lk / mp are very good, dashing mk/hp work sometimes too.

c.hp and c.hp(electric) are godly anti air.

It's easy to link a chain combo of a dashing far lk, you can juggle knee DP ES with qcb+hp(+- strict timing), you can juggle qcb+PP with qcb+PP or qcb+ES.

these combos will work on tall chars and some medium when standing: d.lk, s.lp, qcb+PP, qcb+HP / c.lk, -c.lp, qcb+PP, qcb+HP and other variations.

you can link c.mp(electric) or c.mk(electric) to s/c.lp or s/c.lk and combo from there.

there are alot of setups for 360 and 720, just 90% of those won't work on 90% of ggpo players who'll spam you on wakeup or as soon as you leave any gap in your attack, for those just kill them with chains and knees and don't bother.

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something ive been using lately is close mk / mp on opponets wakeup, example

have someone cornered and in a knockdown, i expect the roll out of the corner, and i time the mk / mp, so that when they roll past, they are waking up into the active frames of either close mk / mp. back dashing out and timming your close mp / mk meatie is a nice thing to do to, and you keep control of your opponet if they block.

some chracters with fast wakeup speed (bee...) make it very hard to get in position and get the electric close mp / mk out in time, so its not very usefull in that situation.

on hit = standing lp / crouching lk > electric chain to reset > shenanigans (this is my second favorite victor combo =P )

on block = keep pressure on and do your victor thing. of course tech block or gc can stop you.

Im pretty sure vic gets command thrown if the opponet goes for it, but not positive. you just neutral jump > whatever then =D.

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haha, I do. /sadface

Ive gotten some stick practice in here and there too, so I feel good on both =D.

We need more Victor people discussing in here, cause if you ask me, with a solid grasp of all the system mechanics and solid fundamentals, Victor can be pretty intimidating! All that electric and stuff, i mean, fish must be terrified! It makes sense why they always spew poision like guile throwing gas'y sonic booms!

a lesson ive learned lately is that to it is very necessary to master - dash > 360 to open up peoples defense! any + frames gives you an opportunity to go for it.

personal favorite - dash lp kinda deep blocked > neutral jump j.lp (wiff) late j.rh > dash - 360

o yeah, and mp normal throw > dash 360, henceforth known as "the roadapple" lol XD (yes i know i didnt invent it)

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mp-throw dash 360 is too funny.

We've been setting up post throw mix-ups w/ jump-ins and different aerials to create a high/low game. When they respect too much, we can empty jump 360.

I will play with the dash mixup tho. Fewer options may work better for the meta game. Or the spacing could be more preferable in the corner.

Words of wisdom to all Vic players.

You will struggle w/ getting in & staying in. to overcome this you must do a few things.

- Never pressure sweep on block.

- If you choose to activate a pursuit & they are not in the corner, you've lost all momentum

- On pressure, cancel short/quick chains into the knee. This is best when your spacing is just where the opponent doesn't know if it will hit or whiff. By the time their brain digest the scenario, you recover and cr.lk or 360/720 them.

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- Never pressure sweep on block.

I really gotta drill this into my head.

what do you guys do if your mp mk is blocked and your at max'ish range? what are your thoughts on actions after mp / mk on block?

josh is cool, and a good player =D

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Anti Aulbath Strat:

Not guaranteed but very probable.

When Aulbath hits w/ dashing.mp he has a 2frame link to connect w/ cr.lp into whatever.

IF he misses the link, you can reversal ES throw. You can even piano the punches to makes your own reversal-window larger than Aulbath's link-window. It's mean, but a legit strategy.

Watch Kosho do it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsfBOgCh38#t=43m26s.

Step 1: IF you get hit with d.mp

step 2: 720 hp~mp~lp*

Don't forget to negative edge

It's worth trying.

=/

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The requiremensts for "Mega Spike", "dash-Mega Spike", "Gerdenheim 3" & "dash-Gerdenheim 3" in VSAV.

"Mega Spike":

1. Only directions that are true = 4 2 6 & 8

B/c of this, traditional SuperTurbo shortcut is not acceptable. =/= 632147P

2. Diretcional inputs need to be in circular order.

B/c of this, SSFIV input shortcut is not accepatable. =/= 6, 4, 2, 8

3. The special move input-buffer counts towards the last input.

similar to a walking-Hadouken: 23[6], delay, P uses the input-buffer to walk a few frames before activating a fireball.

B/c of these rules, we can do a few tricks.

- standing "Mega Spike"'s can be input very easily w/o a fear of jumping: 63214, 5, 8P

- Splitting dash startup w/ a "Mega Spike": 87412, 5, 66P "hide/buffer" the first few jump frames w/ another move.

- full walking "Mega Spike": 87412, 5, [6], Delay, P "hide/buffer" the first few jump frames w/ another move.

Dash:

1. Has startup and recovery frames which cannot be jumped during.

2. Is special cancel enabled.

B/c of these rules, we can do a few tricks.

- dashing "Mega Spike" is EASY: all following inputs are accepted

6, 6321478P

6, 63214789P

6, 632147896P

"Gerdenheim 3" & "Dash-Gerdenheim 3":

1. All same conditions of "Mega Spike" apply

B/c of this, the last four inputs can be manipulated in the same way the "Mega Spike" are manipulated.

2. You need to "hide/buffer" most of the inputs to avoid jump frames. Attacks, dashing startup, dashing recovery, or landing from a jump are very good places.

B/c of this, you will never see a standing "Gerdenheim 3". VSAV is too fast for it to exist.

Iputs:

Buffer(47896321478) 632KK = "Gerdenheim 3"

Buffer(8963214789) 63214KK = "Gerdenheim 3"

BUffer(63214789) 6321478KK = "Gerdenheim 3"

Buffer(21478963214789) 6KK = "Gerdenheim 3"

Buffer(63214789) 63214, 5, 8KK = standing & delayed "Gerdenheim 3"

Buffer(2147896321478) 66KK = Splitting dash startup w/ a "Gerdenheim 3"

Buffer(2147896321478) [6] Delay KK = Stepping "Gerdenheim 3"

Dash.lp as a buffer tool:66~lp is his best buffer, the +frames on block and hit are just enough for a successful tick throw. Here's all the previous inputs modified to accomodate the d.lp tick setup.

66lp (478963214789) 632KK = "Gerdenheim 3" This input works, but the move whiffs

6[6]lp (3214789) 63214, 5, 8KK = "Gerdenheim 3" This input works, but the move whiffs

6698lp (741236987) 4123[6], delay, KK = "Gerdenheim 3" stepping "Gerdenheim 3". *Reverse-closkwise input* THE BEST SETUP.

dash.stop as a buffer tool: 66~4 starts a dash and recovers from dash w/ frames that will not allow jumping. Here's all the previous inputs modified to accomodate the dash.stop buffer.

66, 87412, 5, 66P = Splitting dash startup w/ a "Mega Spike"

66, (8741236987) 412, 5 66KK = Splitting dash startup w/ a "Gerdenheim 3"

From KAME:

"At 2P side, using Dash-WeakPunch. During guard, input [4 8 6 2 4 8 6]quickly, walks a little[4], and push buttons."

Big thanks to "YetiGhettoSlang" & Kame_Victor for the secrets which leads me finally understanding this!

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I'm not seeing why Lp is a better tick than Lk...at least, if we're talking specifically about frame data. D.Lk gives you a much bigger frame advantage. Unless there's a reason you'd want less time to complete the motion?

Otherwise, I'd still D.Lp is likely the better choice, but it's because D.Lk (and especially close D.Lk) have a tendency to whiff some crouching characters that D.Lp won't whiff against.

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Been talkin vic lately w/ my buddy luke. Here are some more pointers and tools vic should be abusing.

Air game:

First off, his j.hp is probably the best in the game. His air game and landing mixups all revolve around it. Abuse it until opponents start to respect or tech hit against it.

Any jumpin j.hp that you can confirm, should go into a full chain than st.hp.elec reset

When ascending on the jump, whiff a j.lp. This is a good air to air and forces proxy blok on grounded opponents. can optionselect an air string. Input: ascending j.lp,~j.mp, j.hp. This will setup an offensive metagame. Vic can alter chains and land into a ub\guardbreak st.lp. This setsup oki.

When opponent begins to chicknblock the j.hp, vic should jumpin w\ j.lp, j.lk, j.mp land ub-st.lp. Setsup oki

When opponent begins to techhit the j.hp,vic should descend with j.mk or j.hk the few extra frames of startup will punish the opponents techhit attempts.

When opponent is excessively blocking vics j.hp, vic should do a delayed j.hk such that no active frames connect. Land into a cr.lk chain, 360, es-360, or 720.

One final pointer to his air game, against tall characters, vic can ju,pih with j.hp, j.hk. This chain is amazing. The stun, boxes, frames sare great. Abuse it. Works on demitri, victor, bishamon, jedah, anakaris.

He has another abuseable tool he can use on short crouches,. This is on his gtound and dashfing game. I will post up this stuff in a bit.

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Ground game:

Vics ground game objective is to dash.360 or frame-trap the opponent. Both options play off eachother and deal good damage. He does not have an overhead, not a high/low character.

Usually, vic gets in with +frames from a landing j.hp. If you know the j.hp will not do damage, or cannot confirm the j.hp will do damage, the ground game will begin.

His three primary options are dash.lp, dash.360 and poking with st.lp chain to cr.lk.

Here is how these three tools are used to counter the opponents options.

Dash.lp is amazing:

It Stuffs jump-outs and turns the reset into oki.

It fights tech hits

it is +frames on block or hit.

This tool forces the opponent to stay grounded and setup his throw game. Typically, you should start with this tool and condition for the throws. This game tends nto be jumpy and pokey, so start with this tool for a higher success.

Opponents options for dealing with a tight dash.lp is very limited. They can do a reversal/invinc more. Baiting this is another metagame. But rarely happens.

Their true option is to techhit against the dash.lp. once you confirm the opponent can techhit against this. Vics options are

- delay the lp off the dash to punish techhit attempt and gain needed +frames

- dash.360 to punish the techhit attempt

Now for the fun, if dash.lp is blocked/hit, Vics best mixups are available, these same options are good from a deep blocked/non-confirmable j.hp too:

- dash.lp

- dash.360

- step into a 720

- Step into an MP throw. This cannot be jumped & on a success, resets into another OKI.

- poke w/ st.lp, cr.lk

- against short crouches, whiff a knee and 360/es-360 when you recover behind them. Qbee, lilith, wolf, morrigan, bulleta

If the st.lp, cr.lk poke is blocked, either jumpin or dash mixup

If the st.lp, cr.lk is hit, LINK st.lp, st.mp.elec, st.hp.elec into an oki.

If the st.lp, cr.lk is techhit, see options for fighting techhits

This is how vic deals with being pushed out by a successful techhit:

- do another dash.lp to fight the distance

- whiff a knee to fight the distance

- 9-jump back in to fight the distance

In summary, this is all one big flow chart based on what the opponent will do. With Vic, you are forced to make good opponen-reads to be successful. This is why he is considered low tier.

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i love vic!!!!!!

Whats goin on thought id throw some shit in. Kyle has covered most all of the basic things involved with Vic's game plan. Wanna talk aboot es lariat for a second. Es Lariat eats most all projectiles in the game, giving him a chance for approaching with 1 meter especially against projectile heavy characters. I know theres no sentijamal drones in this game but jedah for instance. Always throwing pizza wheels out. Seeing when he is going to do this and es lariat right thru gives you a free knock down if your close enough. If not you still eat thru the projectile and get close enough to run your game. Ex lariat also eats jedahs ex wheel so use this to close gaps and get in there. Got some stuff about Q bee ill post later

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H83e7FkAfZY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR4kwB1UPxs#t=1m7s

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is possible to imput victor 720 during a normal dash without any lp,or lk buffer?

on the post above there's this:

66, (8741236987) 412, 5 66KK = Splitting dash startup w/ a "Gerdenheim 3"

but is anyone tested this yet or is only possible in theory?

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That is how to split the dash w/ the 720, so it's instant.

I have seen dashing 720 (w/o a normal) in match vids. It's very difficult, I cannot do it. I do know, you have to roll the circles away from the opponent, that way the final inputs are rotating across the down axis and not the up axis.

As seen here: @05:20

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gAKfKWx2Ww#t=05m20s

My guess at the inputs here are:

66~987412369874, 5, 2, 5, 6KK

You can see Vic stop the dash & crouch before the 720 is activated. It's gotta be something like this.

I DOUBT he split the input with cr.lk. but may be worth considering...

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Hey, I tried this at work with my boss recently and thought it was cool, so I bought it. I can't ever get Victor's airthrow to work. I've tried varying height, rising when attempting, jumping forward/back/neutral. Nothing works. It's just j.4/6 M/Hp right?

Maybe I'm spoiled by I-No's airthrow range, but I can't get it point blank in training mode either.

What am I doing wrong?

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