[VS] Aulbath: Creature From the Black Lagoon

[Kyle]

Doesn't he have to jump different direction on different characters? example:

7j.lk or 9J.lk or 8j.lk?

[Actionhank]

Doesn't he have to jump different direction on different characters? example:

7j.lk or 9J.lk or 8j.lk?

Yes. I find back or neutral jumping works best on shorter characters but I'll do a test and confirm what's optimal. I find taller characters easier to neutral or forward jump, but lk-drill has to input immediately to avoid throw punishes.

Also for some odd reason, BB hood has been my personal demon when doing this overhead. I've found it to work once from a neutral jump but the inputs had to be unusually fast.

[sonicspear64]

I usually use 9j.lk when I initiate it because I'm usually half a character length away from using lights to set it up on most characters. When close up on the medium to tall crouching chars, I use 7j.lk (usually after a d.mp that isn't pushblocked or after an IOH to do another one).

BB Hood is in those class of characters where it's doable, but kinda difficult. Her and pretty much anyone else that can just crouch under Fish stand lights are the same way for me. I think it's nearly impossible to do it using 7j.lk in most situations on them.

[jinxhand]

What seems to be the best AA option vs Victor's j.HP??? I personally wouldn't mind trading hits as long as the trade is in my favor and allows me to either combo or apply mixup/rushdown. Or would my best option simply be to go A2A and trade that way???

[Primiera]

Even a preemptive st.HP would probably trade at best with Victor's j.HP. From my experience, I'd say move back and try to make him attack a Sonic Wave or Poison Cloud if they're being too predictable, or go A2A with j.MP and j.HP.

[jinxhand]

Even a preemptive st.HP would probably trade at best with Victor's j.HP. From my experience, I'd say move back and try to make him attack a Sonic Wave or Poison Cloud if they're being too predictable, or go A2A with j.MP and j.HP.

Seems I have to try the Sonic Wave... I've attempted the other methods, and still managed to get beat out and if I trade, Victor just goes right back into spamming j.HP or goes in for a combo if the jump attack connected deep enough...

I might have to try and see what I'm capable of after a successful Tech Hit...

Thanks for the advice!!!

[Primiera]

Seems I have to try the Sonic Wave... I've attempted the other methods, and still managed to get beat out and if I trade, Victor just goes right back into spamming j.HP or goes in for a combo if the jump attack connected deep enough...

I might have to try and see what I'm capable of after a successful Tech Hit...

Thanks for the advice!!!

I feel you, brother. There are some great jump-ins (Hsien-Ko's j.MP, Victor's j.HP, Q-Bee's j.MP, etc) in this game so amazingly abusable against anti-airs that some (online) people just jump all day. Mixing up jump left with jump up and some jump right for good measure. You gotta go A2A, chicken guard into retaliation, or get out of the way and try to whiff punish in a lot of cases to beat them.

[DaiAndOh]

What seems to be the best AA option vs Victor's j.HP??? I personally wouldn't mind trading hits as long as the trade is in my favor and allows me to either combo or apply mixup/rushdown. Or would my best option simply be to go A2A and trade that way???

If it's too predictable, try jumping with him (outside of air throw range), blocking, then punishing it. All jumping attacks when airblocked have really short blockstun. Give it a try in training mode and see what's good!

[Kyle]

^DEAR GOD THIS.

against Vic's j.hp, do chicken block, j.lp & use the RESET to setup a mixup.

I would consider Vic's J.hp one of the best air to ground in the game.

Lilith, Gallon & Felicia's J.hp's too.

If Aulbath can YOMI a J.hp, try doing Bubble ASAP than blocking the J.hp. this forces Bubble on Vic and can combo into gas than a full chain.

[jinxhand]

So I've noticed a weird anomaly with Aulbath when I was practicing a couple days ago that I haven't seen posted here yet. If for some reason this find is already somewhere here, I apologize in advance.

Anyway, I was trying to mess around with Aqua Spread (water pillar super) to find other ways to apply it to my game when needed. I ended up using that super right after the training dummy was caught with the bubble. Before the opponent landed, I hit him with the gas instead of Sonar Wave. The opponent was grounded, but landed with a funny animation, and wasn't able to tech. I made sure that the dummy settings allowed ground teching, and I even recreated the scenarion myself to see if I could manually tech both forward and backwards, and was unable to do so. So far, the "combo/setup" looks like this:

Bubble, 632kk, gas

So that got me thinking... I replicated the combo, and this time I threw another bubble out to see if it was avoidable. So far, it's not "unavoidable", since while the opponent is landing with that funny animation, the bubble itself had enough time to trap the dummy and from there you're free to do whatever. The only catch is that 632kk needs to launch properly for this setup to work, so if the opponent isn't launched up and off-screen, you won't be able to combo with gas and everything afterward. This "setup" does cost at least 3 stocks of meter, but from the damage output it seemed useful, but I guess that all depends on how quick you are at building meter. This wasn't tested on all characters, and I wasn't able to see if character-specific Dark Force could counter the setup, but that will be tested sometime this weekend. So here's what the whole combo/setup thing looks like ultimately:

Bubble, 632kk, gas, Bubble, [gas, BnB combo]

That which is inside the [] can be replaced with a preferred combo of choice.

I came across all of this messing around with this combo:

Bubble, 632kk, Sonar Wave, s.HP, pursuit

I also noticed strange things like after hitting the opponent with a bubble, dash MP can sometimes cross up from below and allow for throw setups. I'm not sure how consistent this "cross up" is; compared to the usual bubble-to-gas song and dance, I'm sure this option isn't worth using except on an uber rare occasion . I came across this on accident trying to put the opponent in blockstun so the bubble can connect, and did the input too late. I wanna say 63214kk can work well in this because if you happen to put yourself in the corner, this can take you back out of it, and land the opponent back in the corner (can't remember which direction Aulbath does the trick fish ender). I'm pretty sure in a situation like this, the opponent might try to mash out a reversal dp (if they have one).

Speaking of command throws, which of the 2 command throws that Aulbath has takes the most precedence in terms of priority??? I'm assuming his P-command throw takes precedence, but I see people using both P and K versions (I can't remember if there's a damage difference between the throws either).

Last thing (I think), I've noticed that in order to do Aulbath's throw followup (pressing the opposite direction) the stick needs to go back to neutral after doing the first throw input, then the timed opposite direction needs to be pressed. Is there any real work around to this???

EDIT: here's the video explaining the untechable setup. It seems the only way to escape it is by using Dark Force. Props to CaseyCor and the guys at Saltmines for helping me show, test, and record on the fly.

[Kyle]

updated the gimmicks list Thanks Acti0nHank

[Remzi]

Does pillar have any practical uses for punishment/neutral? Seems like 632KK can punish Jedah's air wheels, if you get a good read. Outside of that, I really don't know. Maybe useful vs Anak for punishing various things, and possibly a trade or two.

[jinxhand]

Does pillar have any practical uses for punishment/neutral? Seems like 632KK can punish Jedah's air wheels, if you get a good read. Outside of that, I really don't know. Maybe useful vs Anak for punishing various things, and possibly a trade or two.

You basically have to have a good read in order to truly utilize 632KK imo. From my personal experience, most people I fight tend to get hit with 632KK while trying to avoid the bubble, and this happens mid-stage. One match I fought a Morrigan player, and I expected her fireball from mid-range, so I 632KK'ed her before the bat was released.

Honestly though, I find it best when I use 632KK in a combo. Other than that, and the occasional good read moment, I don't use it much...

[ChunkTug]

I learning so bear with me.

QBee (2-8): ... Some things to note is that it's really hard to connect with a full poison/echo combo on her, because she is so low to the ground when she is in her stun state...

So I just noticed that if your opponent is crouching when gassed (or they were crouching when they got bubbled then gassed) they'll be in crouching hit stun for the remainder of the combo.

Jump in on crouching Morrigan you can't chain j.LK > j.HP. Jump in on a gassed crouching Morrigan and she'll be standing/stunned for the first hit, so j.LK connects high for j.HP to come out.

Q-Bee is much lower crouching profile, so you can't get j.LK > j.HP even when gassed.

Against crouching Q-Bee:

Bubble, Gas, (opt. whiff j.HK), j.HP, c.LK > c.MK > c.HK

Q1: Is there a better crouching Q-Bee combo I should be trying?

Q2: Are there other characters I need to be watch out for their crouching hit box for combos?

[jinxhand]

I learning so bear with me.

So I just noticed that if your opponent is crouching when gassed (or they were crouching when they got bubbled then gassed) they'll be in crouching hit stun for the remainder of the combo.

Jump in on crouching Morrigan you can't chain j.LK > j.HP. Jump in on a gassed crouching Morrigan and she'll be standing/stunned for the first hit, so j.LK connects high for j.HP to come out.

Q-Bee is much lower crouching profile, so you can't get j.LK > j.HP even when gassed.

Against crouching Q-Bee:

Bubble, Gas, (opt. whiff j.HK), j.HP, c.LK > c.MK > c.HK

Q1: Is there a better crouching Q-Bee combo I should be trying?

Q2: Are there other characters I need to be watch out for their crouching hit box for combos?

I know when I bubble-n-gas Q-Bee, I'll usually try to go for j.LP > j.LK, then go for a crouching combo like c.LK > c.MP(1hit) > c.MK > c.HK. j.LP > j.LK usually works for characters like that, but since the Q-Bee players in SD don't crouch alot, I abuse the regular full bub/gas combo... Oh yeah, j.LP > j.MP works also...

The only other character I can think of with a low hitbox is maybe Bulleta... She's a harder target to hit than Q-Bee is imo.

[Kyle]

Perfect Anti-Air trade by ActionHank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzHWRwN94o#t=2m53s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzHWRwN94o#t=3m19s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzHWRwN94o#t=5m6s

Perfect Anti-Air trade by SonicSpear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzHWRwN94o#t=12m52s

Aulbath-

poke w/ cr.lk because on hit you can LINK cr.lp into whatever & on block it is a great tick-throw or setup for IOH J.lk~J.2hk.

During Bubble traps against characters w/ armor (Sas & Bish). Be prepared to punish their DarkForce w/ dashing ES-Command Throw. The Punch version.

cr.mk at max range is GC safe

st.lp works against crouching Sasquatch

Anti-Finishing Shower trick is to Dark Force & go to the top of the screen, than command hop off the stingray and use the drill to spend time off screen as the missiles disappear.

[jinxhand]

cr.lk is a better tick throw setup that cr.lp??? What's the specific frame data on that? cr.lk seems a bit slower imo, but yet it's still effective.

[Skankin Garbage]

C.Lk has the same startup and active frames as C.Lp, but it has two additional frames of cooldown. It's probably better for tick throws, though, because if you have too much frame advantage, you run the risk of attempting a throw before the opponent leaves blockstun and getting a S.Mp/S.Hp instead. The difference isn't that great, though.

When dashing, however, this is pretty irrelevant, because the frame data for the dashing versions is the same - something that the VSav Wiki doesn't mention.

C.Lp: 4 / 3 / 7 (Startup / Active / Cooldown)

C.Lk: 4 / 3 / 9

D.Lp: 3 / 3 / 12

D.Lk: 3 / 3 / 12

This is mainly relevant because I'm pretty sure you can't link either dashing version...or if you can, it's damn near impossible.

[jinxhand]

I think I've linked d.lk into cr.lp once or twice. I'll hit up practice mode and see how I did it...

[jinxhand]

So I wanted to revisit the Bubble, 632kk, gas setup. After conversing with a fellow VSaver, I'm starting to see some untapped potential in 632KK, gas. This setup alone allows Fish to put the opponent in a bubble trap for FREE!!! I tested this out with the whole cast, and the ONLY escape to this is going into DF.

 

Some people have said that wasting 2 stocks of meter "isn't going to be good" for you anyway, so why do it??? Not all of the cast have some form of armor in DF. DF also costs one meter, so essentially they're left with two options, take the extra damage from Fish, or waste meter to save themselves, possibly putting themselves in another setup. There are ways to force the opponent to waste meter without this setup, but I honestly feel this type truly benefits Fish if he has tons of momentum already in the match, especially round 2 or 3, where this setup can easily close out the match. I've personally used this setup on a few occasions. I just need to pay more attention to when 632kk actually hits so I can quickly charge for the poison gas attack.

 

Let me be the first to say that this setup is obviously better vs some characters than others. From my personal experience, QBee, Demitri, Lilith, Morrigan, Wolf, Bulleta, Jedah, and maybe Sasquatch can fall victim to this setup given the right circumstances. You have to keep in mind the opponent's meter also. Knowing this, and keeping momentum will definitely make this trick work wonders.

 

For those that doubt, this is no more different than those that use DF to rush and bubble trap the opponent. Many people thought that was pointless, but after watching the "Devil's Playground" tournament, I see how effective that can be if done correctly.

 

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Regarding connecting jump-ins after gassing crouching/short opponents, it's probably best to do j.lk (whiff), j.hp, then combo afterwards...  st.mp (1hit) > st.mk > cr.hk... I've also used st.mp (2hits) > cr.hk. You're still close enough to force another bubble trap if able, and you can still apply pressure.

[B.Z.B]

After a corner bubble setup and combo to oki setup I was playing a player who would forward tech and throw me before the bubble connected.   What is the proper os punish?   Can I just do a meaty move to stuff it?? I know I could jump but I'd rather not have to do a hard read. 

[DaiAndOh]

Some command throws have invincibility on them, when does as a reversal, it's a good answer. If you mean regular throw, a meaty should beat it.

If you have footage of the situation, that would help clarify, I've never had the latter occur.