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Kajoq

[VS] Lei-Lei: Kwaidan

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You can see for yourself the result in that vid. He swings forward, promptly gets anti-aired, and eats a reset/mixup which could have landed sako a knockdown or infinite. He wasn't doing it to keep momentum but to escape pressure, maybe double cancel would have been better or immediate cancel and try to land first since sako's first reaction was to jump idk. Missile would have beaten it flat out if it was already charged. He does make a lot of other really good defensive moves/reads in that match, completely stopping sako from getting anything started. Checkout the jump back reaction to BBH neutral jump mixup at 19 seconds. Dash under ES gong(command throw OS?) at 40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCfzbPZv24#t=0m19s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCfzbPZv24#t=0m40s

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There's actually a small gap in that super. The blades come out in sets of 3. some characters can walk/dash between the sets. Good reference video. thx for the link.

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Snuggleguns, your images broke.

EDIT: Actually, that's odd. The Chireitou images are broken on Mizuumi as well.

Also, good point on that Pendulum. Maybe a double-cancel would work? That way, you're out of reach of being AA'd by ground normals.

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Something I haven't seen mentioned before and thought might be worth noting, or at least for finding out what happened:

I was messing around in training the other day practicing Anki Hou H setups. I threw a stun item and went for an IAD j.HK. When the hammer hit Wolf, he didn't get stunned and he instead went into hitstun like normal. I think my j.HK hit at the same time as the hammer hit, but I don't see why that would negate the stun. Anybody know what happened here? I couldn't recreate it, though I should try again.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3zoJUUJB20

At the beginning of this match, Sako backdashes towards the edge and does a Pendulum right out of the airdash. A few times, Diar moves the screen and you can see Sako whiffing a j.LP, though he might just be doing this to recover quicker since that uses up both of his air actions. How is Sako doing this, and what purpose does it serve? He seems to be using it to stay airborne a bit longer so he doesn't have to block fireballs.

So far, I've gotten it once while airdashing forward in training but haven't been able to replicate it. I also just tried doing it with the Gong by buffering an RDP and got it once (since pressing the opposite direction during an airdash cancels it). I'm thinking the timing is either very strict or just very weird, seeing as Lei's airdash has that weird bit of lag on the end of it. Don't know how many frames it is, though.

Perhaps it has something to do with empty air chaining, since you can do that with specials from normals, too?

EDIT: It's actually explained at the bottom of the first page of this thread ><

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笹塚 ‏Sasazuka- has a video showing how to Man-Up and rip instant TNRH's OMG this is crazy.

show's cr.mk xx TNRH too!

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12388252

Biggest thing I noticed is it's one wrist motion. Roll the wrist to hit lk~hk, than a double finger slide to get mp~mp.

See around 7mins for in game w/ inputs displayed.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmD1WsBg6AI

Quick video on pendulum cancel mixups. This is nothing new, but there isn't any documentation on this kind of setup so I made a video showing some tricks you can do. Basically your canceling either lp or mp pendulum as early as possible to create a high/low/throw mixup.

overhead: 623MP->K~J.MP

low: 623LP->K|>2.LK

throw: 623MP->K|>624P

Also, you can do the same after canceling a close crouching mk into pendulum. Letting you do things like iad hk>2.mk into pendulum overhead to mix up with low staggers and raw trh 19frame overhead.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1zFjG6_KA4

c.mk x dizzy projectile link in a live match at 1:05. That whole first fight is like a primer on how to fight the qbee match up as leilei, good chicken guarding and air control with mp projectile.

One thing I notice is that he actually does 6.mp poke on qbee, which I almost never do due to her being able to crouch it. Puts him in a bad spot at 0:12 when he tries to anti air with it but works alright when qbee's holding up at 0:47.

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I haven't worked on Vsav in awhile question on Lei Lei items came up and here is the Preliminary results

Random slots I don't know what causes it to be random but it isn't the main timer.


00 - LP Axe       MP Axe           HP Axe

01 - LP Sword     MP Sword         HP Sword

02 - LP Shuriken  MP Shuriken      HP Shuriken

03 - LP Statue    MP Statue        HP Statue

04 - LP Boomerang MP Hammer        HP Hammer

05 - LP Boomerang MP Boomerang     HP Boomerang

06 - LP Kunai     MP Kunai         HP Kunai

07 - Random 1

08 - LP Boomerang MP Boomerang     HP Boomerang

09 - LP Axe       MP Axe           HP Axe

10 - Random 2

11 - LP Sword     MP Sword         HP Sword

12 - LP Shuriken  MP Shuriken      HP Shuriken

13 - LP Statue    MP Statue        HP Statue

14 - LP Kunai     MP Boulder       HP Boulder

15 - LP Kunai     MP Kunai         HP Kunai  

16 - LP Shuriken  MP Shuriken      HP Shuriken

17 - LP Statue    MP Statue        HP Statue

18 - LP Kunai     MP Hammer        HP Hammer

19 - LP Kunai     MP Kunai         HP Kunai  

20 - LP Boomerang MP Boomerang     HP Boomerang

21 - Random 3

22 - LP Sword     MP Sword         HP Sword

23 - LP Axe       MP Axe           HP Axe

24 - LP Kunai     MP Kunai         HP Kunai  

25 - Random 4

26 - LP Boomerang MP Boomerang     HP Boomerang

27 - LP Axe       MP Axe           HP Axe  

28 - LP Sword     MP Sword         HP Sword  

29 - LP Shuriken  MP Shuriken      HP Shuriken

30 - LP Shuriken  MP Shuriken      HP Shuriken  

31 - LP Axe       MP Boulder       Hp Boulder

Random slot 1 aka slot 07

Boomerang, Bracelet, Star, or Barrel

Random slot 2 aka slot 10

Vega Claw, Sword, Star, or Barrel

Random slot 3 aka slot 21 (There could be a 4th item on this slot)

Vega Claw, Sword, or Bracelet

Random slot 4 aka slot 25

Boomerang, Vega Claw, Bracelet, or Star

If you do an LP item on a stun throw you'll skip the next line.

Example on 04 you throw Boomerang in stand of the Hammer you'll go directly to 06.

Edit

I just noticed that chun and claw items are only on random slots so that'll make it easier to remember which slot your on.

LeiLei-

Post pursuit whiff 50/50 is from st.mp. Here you can go into cr.mk xx TNRH or just st.mp xx TNRH. This also covers jumpouts and gives her the opportunity to react and confirm the resets into ideal scenarios.

66~cr.lk blows up TechHIt attempts. Can link into another cr.lk and confirm a big combo.

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So I've come to realize that I want to play VS and learn Lei-Lei, but man is this place a mess! also I can't even read the notation, where's the glossary? :eng101:

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If you're having trouble with Numeric Notation check this out: http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Notation#Numeric_Notation

Some of the specific combo notation used in this thread I am not 100% what they're talking about though, lol. The combo notation in the linked page is just what I've been updating that wiki to use, though not every page has it yet.

 

" TNRH " in the post above is "Tenraiha" at least, lol.

 

Check her Mizuumi Wiki page for more organized info: http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Lei-Lei. Some of the info is pretty out of date... I've been slowly updating things here and there though. Read up, then watch high-level match footage to get a better idea.

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I've read up quite a bit of the Mizuumi wiki yes, and I do know Numeric notation, it's stuff like

 

"iadATCK, s.LP, s.LK, s.HK, MP, MP, Up" and 

 

"Dizzy opponent, hp projectile, iad.rk,(projectile hits), iad.rh, cont w/ ground combo" that mess me up.

 

RK is HK/Roundhouse right? Then what the hell is RH? What's ATCK? any button?

 

Help.

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"iadATCK, s.LP, s.LK, s.HK, MP, MP, Up"

Instant Air Dash (IAD) Any Jump Attack (I guess?) >> (land) 5.LP > 5.LK  > 5.HK (then input "MP > MP > UP", none of which comes out, but is the rest of the Tenraiha input which 5.HK cancels into)

 

To be honest I don't really agree with that combo anyways. You'd be better off doing just:

IAD Whatever Attack >> 2.LK > 5.HK xx Tenraiha

 

For one, it gives a high/low mix up incase they block the IAD, because then they have to block a low attack, which soon becomes another high from the Tenraiha. Another benefit is I am pretty sure the falling balls have a better chance of comboing characters that are closer they are to you when tenraiha initially hits (so doing less hits may be preferable), though I need to do some extra testing to confirm that.

 

 

 

"Dizzy opponent, hp projectile, iad.rk,(projectile hits), iad.rh, cont w/ ground combo" that mess me up.

This is saying you have to have an initial dizzy item hit, afterwards you get next to them and throw an HP Item >>> IAD j.HK >> HP Item hits >> IAD j.HK >> Whatever Ground Combo you want to do.

 

That combo lets you do two Instant Air Dash j.HK in it, since the HP item hits so delayed. You're only able to set it up after they've been hit with an item toss that causes them to become dizzied. I don't know why that combo includes both "RK" and "RH", they are both "roundhouse kick", lol.

 

Sometimes you'll see notation, though this is pretty outdated, based around old terms for button attack names. Its usually pretty inconsistent, therefore bad.

I've seen stuff like:

JP = Jab Punch

SP = Strong Punch

FP = Fierce Punch

SK = Short Kick

FK = Forward Kick

RK = Roundhouse Kick

 

I've also seen these mixed in with now standard LP, MP, LK, MK inputs, but they include FP and RK for some reason; maybe it was standard at some point. Either way it gets really weird and inconsistent the older you go back for notation.

 

I'll update Lei-Lei's combo section in the next day or two on her wiki to make it simpler for you.

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Yo man, I just checked the mizuumi wiki and there's Dark Force combos and other stuff, did you just add them? I believe these weren't there before, if so, thanks!

 

I've been practicing Tenraiha, and I've hit a wall, it is possible to add buttons that aren't in the sequence, right? The wiki says

 

"Lei-Lei could also do "1LP (1HK) 1MK (MP MP 8)" which results in c.LP c.MK Tenraiha." (I guess they meant LK there)

 

Does that mean LK>H+MK>MP>MP>8? or L+HK>MK>MP>MP>8 works? Am I even understanding this right?

 

I can combo 2LK>MP or HK into Tenraiha, and I've been training to do LK>Tenraiha and IAD whatever into it too, but I can't manage to squeeze a MK in there. In the same vein, it should be possible to do 2LK>2MK>2HP>Tenraiha, right? Is it possible to do 2LK>2MK>2HP>(HK)>MP>MP>8 or something or should I just do the demon AFTER the 2HP?

 

Is there any setup for empty dash>Tenraiha besides doing it inhumanly fast? Maybe dash>2HK or something? What's the best normal to whiff into it? That's basically her slowest move (11f) along f.HP and 6HS, but f.HP is out of the question since at anvil range it becomes n.HP and comes out at 7f instead. I know that at close quarters I should be going for throw/command throw, but still, it should catch a jump into Tenraiha wich is the coolest shit in the game.

 

In my session today (and the first real one I've head, really), saw that you can late pursuit>Tenraiha pretty easily, you just do 8LK for the pursuit and buffer the rest during the jump, dunno about you but I believe this should be in the wiki, to me it's a pretty strong option. basically an instant overhead?

 

Also are combos into projectile possible? I was fooling around in training mode and saw that LP>>LPxxP item works (I think?) Any way to combo into dizzy items? How do I use them? Just throw them out and hope they hit?

 

EDIT: I just saw like 6 posts above that you can in fact combo into dizzy items lol, I guess it's character specific? at least LP>>LPxx M or H item doesn't combo on Sas, It has to be 2MKxxitem to work?

 

So many questions, sorry about that, I really want to learn this character :toot:

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Sorry for the late reply, needed time to look into some of the stuff.

 

 

 

Does that mean LK>H+MK>MP>MP>8? or L+HK>MK>MP>MP>8 works? Am I even understanding this right?

 

 

The + in the notation makes me think that you believe you can hit the button at the same time, which is not true. I hadn't messed with this too much before, but I looked into it and here is how buffers work to my knowledge:

Anything in ( ) is a hidden buffer. Anything outside is a move that hits/connects/combos.
> = Chain
xx = Special/EX Cancel

LP/MP/MK/HP > (LK) HK (MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

LK > (HK) MP (MP 8) xx Tenraiha

LK > MK > (LK) HK (MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

Each button should be pressed individually in the order they are listed in. The rhythm may be different to properly time each of them. These are not necessarily combos you want to do in matches, just showing off how it works.

 

I believe you also must not interrupt the command super sequence with any other buttons, so something like LK > MK (HK MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha will not work since you put an MK in between LK and HK. 

 

Right now I'm thinking some of the info on this page is completely wrong:

http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Command_Supers

 

It mentions certain things that I believe just do not work.

 

 

 

There are other ways to "skip" or "hide" inputs by sliding them within other inputs, such as pressing two buttons at the same time. Morrigan's DI may be input by pressing "1LP, 1MP+LP, 3MK~LK, HP" which results in c.LP c.MP c.MK DI.

This does not work. You can hit LP > MP+LP all you want, and the MP will never come out. Chain combo inputs do not register if you do press two attack buttons at the same time. I'm probably going to have to re-write that page quite a bit.

 

 

 

 

it should be possible to do 2LK>2MK>2HP>Tenraiha, right? Is it possible to do 2LK>2MK>2HP>(HK)>MP>MP>8 or something or should I just do the demon AFTER the 2HP?

 

To do 2.LK > 2.MK > 2.HP would require you to do

2.LK > 2.MK > 2.HP (LK HK MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

The input buffer for command supers does not last long enough to delay the HK input for that long, and I don't believe you can input other buttons inside of the sequence.

 

 

 

Is there any setup for empty dash>Tenraiha besides doing it inhumanly fast? Maybe dash>2HK or something? What's the best normal to whiff into it? That's basically her slowest move (11f) along f.HP and 6HS, but f.HP is out of the question since at anvil range it becomes n.HP and comes out at 7f instead. I know that at close quarters I should be going for throw/command throw, but still, it should catch a jump into Tenraiha which is the coolest shit in the game.

 

Not sure what you'd want to do here to be honest.

 

 

 

In my session today (and the first real one I've head, really), saw that you can late pursuit>Tenraiha pretty easily, you just do 8LK for the pursuit and buffer the rest during the jump, dunno about you but I believe this should be in the wiki, to me it's a pretty strong option. basically an instant overhead?

 

You don't really have a lot of frames to work with after doing a late pursuit, you typically need to attack or throw them immediately usually. Tenraiha anvil has an 18 frame startup, so there is a good chance you'll get mashed out of it unless they are a character with a slower roll and they roll on wakeup -- in which case this may be a pretty good tactic. You can also do stuff like IAD j.HK and instantly Tenraiha when you land. Figure out fun ways to sneak it in!

 

 

 

Also are combos into projectile possible? I was fooling around in training mode and saw that LP>>LPxxP item works (I think?) Any way to combo into dizzy items? How do I use them? Just throw them out and hope they hit?

 

You can do like MP/MK xx Item Toss. Frame advantage on LP Item is poor from combo range, but you can combo into MP Item on tall opponents. I am not sure if LP item can ever hit dizzy, I heard it has a chance on the "random" boxes, but I never got the Star or Barrel to come out on them. MP Item can combo into stun if you do it right, but its not really practical.

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Simultaneous button presses don't count for command super inputs as far as I can tell testing with an input reader. For tenraiha combos you cant break up the input sequence from individual button presses but you can hide certain inputs to get the chain you want. Comboing tenraiha from a move that's not a part of the super input however requires you to press the entire sequence really fast in the combo window after the last button press of the chain. How it works is already explained, but for practial purposes I'll list the options available to combo from. You can use any chain sequence leading up to these combo points as long as its possible by the game engine.

 

 

1. Easiest difficulty: comboing off of HK with regular chain input, no hidden buffers in move start up or other wierd tricks.

LK  > HK (MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

 

This is your first bnb and simply takes the first two inputs of the super and chains them normally. The rest of the inputs are buffered inside of the HK since it's impossible to chain to a MP from an HK.

 

 

2. Middle difficulty: comboing off of any move that is a part of the input sequence but buffering the rest of the sequence in either move start up or with impossible chains

 

From LK

LK (HK MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

 

This does not combo, but if you press the input fast enough you will not chain to either HK or MP before Tenraiha. This has some utility for the fast overhead but shouldn't go for it on hit confirm as you'll loose your combo and they'll just block it or interupt you.

 

From MP

LK (HK) > MP (MP) 8 xx Tenraiha

 

This one is hard due to buffering the HK inside of the LK startup so the normal chain sequence does not come out. You have to piano LK~ HK similar to kara cancels or plink in SF4. Even though its suboptimal damage, this is my go to hit confirm online. Once you get it down its very hard to drop and the has better utility than the hk imo since you can still go low with HP afterwards instead of having to tenraiha or end the chain. Practice pressing LK > HK fast enough that the chain does not happen, then tack on the rest of the TRH input to get the MP chain.

 

From HK

LP/MP/MK/HP > (LK) HK (MP MP 8) xx Tenraiha

 

This one is interesting since it theoretically lets you do an extended chain comboed into tenraiha anvil drop, but the input is awkward imo, so how viable it is vs full chain into knockdown with trh otg is something I've not explored. I wasn't even aware that you could chain to HK from any move with that extra (LK) snuck in until Rotanibor posted the above and I tested it just now. To even place the (LK) between chains requires you to do the same kara type fast button press. Which I assume places it during the previous move's startup letting you chain to HK afterwards. Practice chaining MK or HP into HK with an LK input inbetween and determine whether or not it's something worth practicing vs the other combos.

 

 

3. Hardest dificulty: comboing off of any move that is not a part of the input sequence; MK & HP (LP & LK do not combo into TRH's 19 frame startup)

From LP

LP (LK HK MP MP 8)  xx Tenraiha

 

Not practical and doesn't combo, you'd probably just get LP > LK xx Tenraiha anyway.

 

From MK

MK (LK HK MP MP 8)  xx Tenraiha

 

This has the most utility out of all the the possible moves that tenraiha can combo off of and is the ideal hitconfirm after a full chain imo. However it requires you to press the entire sequence after the MK press. This takes practice but there's different techniques you can use to do it all fast enough. Here's a video of how I input it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrdTwsHTaEI just pretend I tack on a 8 afterwards. On ggpo I don't hitconfirm into this. I go to the easier links above for damage I know will connect. However I still use it without a confirm since it has mixup utility even though its high risk.

 

From 2.HP

HP (LK HK MP MP 8)  xx Tenraiha

 

This will OTG the opponent with spike balls against most(maybe all?) character's rolling forward or neutral. Easier than the MK link but still difficult. The utility here is to make your opponent not want to roll forward and helps her gameplay goal of pushing the opponent to the corner. It will also let you set up unblockable attempts more reliably than just 2.hp into item toss.

 

 

 

 

You can do like MP/MK xx Item Toss. Frame advantage on LP Item is poor from combo range, but you can combo into MP Item on tall opponents. I am not sure if LP item can ever hit dizzy, I heard it has a chance on the "random" boxes, but I never got the Star or Barrel to come out on them. MP Item can combo into stun if you do it right, but its not really practical.

 

I've seen in match replays where leilei would hold onto a MP stun item and confirm an IAD combo into it on a tall character so its somewhat viable if a bit esoteric and character specific. Should be looked into more on what's possible on which characters in what state. Probably only tallest characters standing dont think it hits even the tallest crouchers though.

 

Canceling 2.MK into a normal HP item can catch people off guard sometimes but is more of a gimick than anything practical since you can be punished hard for trying it it. The best use of stun items are not in combos but either as a good read/reaction anti air MP/HP or unblockable setups with HP item. The Stun item just makes the HP item unblockable even scarier so its good to hold onto it if it comes up in the rotation, but don't be afraid to toss it on someone's block if you need to keep up neutral game.

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