[CS2-CSE] Shishigami Ninpo Forbidden Art (Movement/Oki/Bumpers)

[huey253]

This is a small guide for teaching Bang players the different options that Bang has in CS2. It is a really straight forward and a very good read if you are finding yourself either bored with bang or feeling that your game is lacking something. I hope you all enjoy it. (I wrote this late at night so forgive me for spelling/grammar errors, and please tell me if there are any so I can edit them out)

-huey253

Movement:

Bang is a very mobile character with several different movement options. SUPER JUMPING (optional) applies to every single of the options with the bonus of it making the movement option faster (super jump makes a character’s rising jump speed increase and the height jumped) Some of these movements options are:

1. Jump

A. Airdash Forward or Backwards

B. Airdash Forward Twice or Backwards Twice

C. Airdash Backwards then Forward, or Forward then Backwards

2. Dash/Backdash

Bang has a pretty good dash (fastest max dash speed) which is useful for approaching on the ground. Bang’s backdash doesn’t function well in the standard use of a normal invincible backdash but it moves him backwards a huge distance (biggest in the game) .It is invincible from frames 1-9 and airborne 13-28 with him finishing his dash on frame 36

3. Walking

4. Double Jump

A. Airdash Forward or Backwards

5. Instant Air Dash

A. Airdash Forward or Backwards (to use the second dash)

B. Poison Nail Glide

C. Explosion Nail Glide

D. Airdash jA

6. Poison Nail Glide

Inputting 66236A or 44236A will result in bang doing a quick downwards glide with the Poison Nail leading the way. It is very useful for getting in on certain characters such as Lambda or Hakumen that would normally be much harder to approach. It is baitable, so don’t abuse the option too much as it will be punished by a good player.

7. Explosion Nail Glide

Inputting 6641236B or 44236B will result in bang doing a slower downwards glide with the Explosion Nail leading the way. (the input is changed for going forward because j623B will come out instead). The B nail has a hitbox before it hits the ground and after the explosion. These can be used in very interesting ways if the player is creative.

8. Airdash jA

Inputing a 66A or 44A will result in bang doing a single jab in the air with the benefit of recovering from the airdash animation. This option allows Bang to barrier during his airdash. It also seems to keep him in the air longer than any other movement option that he has.

9. jD

My personal favorite move, jD can be used in the middle of bang’s airdash to cancel his airdash momentum. It also affects his falling momentum too. Very useful for baiting anti airs and confusing people in general.

Oki Enders:

The main choices for oki for bang are 2C, 6D, jC. His 623B/J623B enders are usually for higher damage but result in a knockdown that pushes them away that requires you to run after them to get pressure. Bang can also utilize j623B in the corner for some tech traps/air unblockable setups, but those are a bit gimmicky. Daifunka and Ashura both lead into a knockdown . Different oki options for each ender are:

2C/6D:

Example Combo #1: 5A 5B 2B 2C….

Example Combo #2: 5A 5B 2B 6C jD 2369C dash 5C 6D… (standing only)

1. forward jump cancel into ground normal (preferably high/low for mixup)

This is the most standard setup that is universally used by bang players in CS2. 2A is great for keeping people honest and 5C/623C is useful if you can successfully train your opponent to respect and block you. A tick grab setup can easily be used in this situation too.

2. 214X/j214X

Bumpers!!!! Time to setup up some invisible mixups. *see bumper section*

3. *Corner only* Neutral jump cancel into late 44236A (back airdash Poison Nail)

This is my personal setup that I’ve never seen anybody use before. It baits almost all reversals on wakeup even if you do the airdash super late. Results in a poison nail hit if they try to DP.

Even works on the faster reversals like Hazama’s Jayoku.

jC/Ashura:

Example Combo #3: 5A 5B 2B 6C jD 2B 6C j4C j4C jC (standing only)

1. Standard mixup from hard knockdown.

High/Low/Command Grab/Grab/tick grab/etc

2. Dash 2A for catching rolls

Catches rolls and allows for a free extra air combo if the opponent doesn’t tech in time.

Daifunka:

1. Standard mixup from hard knockdown.

2. Dash 2A slide under.

Gets a crossunder if you time correctly. The timing for the crossunder became stricter in CS2 due to the neutral teching hitbox increasing which actually makes the mixup slightly better because it is really hard to determine if Bang will crossup even if he has the momentum to do so. 623C is commonly used here due to being at such an advantage that only reversals/jumping/backdashing will stop it.

BUMPERS:

By now, you’ve looked through bang’s special list, and noticed there was a command for setting bumpers. You’ve probably watched dozens of Japanese match videos, and have noticed once in a blue moon they also set bumpers. But what do bumpers do for you? Well, what if I told you, Bang could have movement abilities that exceed Taokaka and 50 50 mixups that even Rachel would be jealous of. Bumpers give you both :yaaay:Using SUPER JUMP (optional) increases the speed of the movement/mixup at the cost of being slightly hard to execute.

Setting up bumpers can be tough againist certain characters that having good zoning capabilities. Some easy “free” setups include:

1. Combo into 6D into 2 bumper sets

2. Instant Airdash backwards with explosion nail Glide into two bumper sets

3. 2C into one bumper set

4. In a blockstring (VERY RISKY)

Bumper Positioning is very important if you want them to be effective throughout the whole round, rather than a onetime thing. I have found that setting the B and D bumpers at the same location are a good start for success because they are the closest to the ground. Now, to extend your reign of terror over the screen, the best place to position the third bumper so that it is usable with the first two is by either doing a low as possible 2147A under the B bumper (which is in front of you) or using the full nail dash of the B bumper to move you forward and using 2147C there. Setting the fourth bumper is much more difficult and the only real way to do it without estimating is by using the D bumper to travel backwards and using 2147C at that location. Using the standard A and C bumpers are viable, but they don’t work as well with the B and D bumpers. They are also higher up, so the mixup/movement off of them is much slower. They are useful for avoiding certain projectiles, but in general aren’t very good. (The problem with projectiles will be explained later) Here is a link of proper bumper setups for optimal mixup/movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwsgeeFiRYw&feature=player_detailpage#t=88s Also note that C bumper after corner knockdown is pretty good for pressure/blockstrings if you use a jump cancelable to access the bumper. A C bumper is also commonly used in a much higher location for the "bumper" corner loop combo.

Bumper Mixup is completely unreactable if set up correctly. Bumpers grant bang a 9 way FRKZ dash with invincibility frames. A mixup that is commonly used are when the opponent is completely under or really close to being under the bumper is jumping into bumper and 1/2/3 dash for an instantaneous crossup/fake crossup. Next, if the opponent is about a character distance away from the bumper, a couple mixups that could be utilized are jumping into the bumper and using 6/4 dash in combination with late jA to get a crossup/fake crossup overhead jab that leads into full combo or airdashing into the bumper and then using 6 dash for an ambiguous jC crossup/fake crossup depending on the timing of the jC which becomes more ambiguous if they are slightly further away from the bumper.

Bumper Movement is the hardest thing to do successfully in match. A lot of the time, characters like Jin or Hazama will shoot a projectile in the line of bumpers making them difficult to use. This is frustrating at first, but is not a problem at all for Bang Shishigami. Using two or more bumpers will allow you to do things like 6 nail dash 4 nail dash 8 nail dash to move to several different positions on the screen almost instantaneously. The answer is simply to use your ability to teleport to different locations on the screen with nail dash ON REACTION to attempts of people trying to stop you from using nail dash. This can be done with practice. I personally recommend grinding training mode so that you can always jump into the bumper without fail (people miss the bumper all of the time) and use all 3 nail dashes (the limit) to ALWAYS move the desired location.

There are several different creative bumper setups that are viable for match, but have not been discovered yet. I just gave a sample of what I feel is currently the most efficient way to use the bumpers. I would love to see the different bumper setups that could be useful for different movements/mixups.

Thanks to Kensou, Kid Viper, The Biter and other people who have helped me find some of these different things about Bang.

Does anybody have any questions about anything? Feel free to ask. Is a blockstring section desired from anybody? I’ll edit this whenever I find some cool stuff to add. Thanks for reading it.

Edited June 30, 2011 by huey253

[Justice7541]

6641236B works for B nailglide? You mean I didn't have to break my back trying to do 23696B for two iterations of this stupid game?

Fuck it, I'm just going to main MAHVEL BAYBEE now.

Also IMO you should mention the different C bumper position sets for corner since that's where 99% of people are going to be going for bumper pressure.

[Dacidbro]

The guide's good dude. Not feeling particularly critical, I'll just say it's good :eng101::eng101::eng101:

[huey253]

yeah, people who have been playing Bang since CT will probably know almost everything in this guide. i'm happy you liked it :3

I edited in what you said Justice, thanks

Edited June 30, 2011 by huey253

[ZeroRaider]

This beats me having to note all this myself, a good read Huey.

[Airk]

Very interesting stuff. I have one question - why doesn't Bang's backdash "function well in the standard use of a normal invincible backdash" when it has 9 frames of invulnerability - more than anyone's except Tager and Arakune? (And Wolf Valkenhayn, I guess.)

[Justice7541]

Very interesting stuff. I have one question - why doesn't Bang's backdash "function well in the standard use of a normal invincible backdash" when it has 9 frames of invulnerability - more than anyone's except Tager and Arakune? (And Wolf Valkenhayn, I guess.)

Because it's only 9f invul out of like 30f of backdash and you don't move back that fast.

[Airk]

Because it's only 9f invul out of like 30f of backdash and you don't move back that fast.

It doesn't add up though; Ragna's backdash (He's a good example, because he's pretty average here.) moves him 270 arbitrary distance units in 20 frames, meaning he's covering 13.5 ADUs per frame. Bang's backdash moves him 480 units in 36 frames, meaning he covers... 13.333 ADUs per frame. That's not really a meaningful speed difference, (Hazama, for example, backdashes at 10.8 ADUs per frame.) and you get a lot more invulnerability in exchange.

I guess it would be a bad backdash because you surrender a lot of ground, but I don't really see how it's worse than average for backdashing for invulnerability unless people are able to chase you down due to the duration of the dash?

Edit: Note. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just trying to figure out how the reality matches up with the theory. I like to understand why things are the way they are.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Airk

[Dacidbro]

The real difference there is that when X number of pokes will hit any relevant ADU away, being committed for less time is far more important. So when Ragna is committed for 20 and you're committed 1.5 times as long, against a lot of characters that's just enough for your backdash to be completely worthless because of the speed of whiff recovery in general in this game. Most commonly, someone will whiff a move over your backdash, then if it was an A move they can punish on reaction, and if it's a B or C move they can continue their pressure anyway.

There are still circumstances where you can get out of pressure for it, so don't not use it. Just understand the weak-chokepoints.

[huey253]

when you hit most characters out of their backdash, they are in the air in non CH state, making it a bit harder to take advantage of.

bang is usually hit while he is on the ground

EDIT: and what dacidbro said

[Airk]

Right! That makes good sense! Thank you! I suspected it was something like what Dacid said after Justice's comments. Thanks again!

[Mr. Kimura]

Thanks for the guide, time to take notes

No questions as of now.

[Kensou]

To add to the bumper dealy...

From personal experience I've used TK'd bumpers purely because it felt easier to iAD to them due to it having the perfect height. There was a video that was up not to long ago showing alot of the bumper mixups I used back in CT and CS1 that are still viable now. But of course back in CS1 why bother with those right? *bad jokes are bad*

In all honesty there's no real right or wrong way to place them per se however its a matter of when and how you use them. I'll drop some examples...

Corner: I would use a D bumper after a Daifunka to make the enemy afraid of rolling backwards which in turn would make them sit still in the corner.

The Mind Game?

When you go for strings and iAD back the enemy will be looking for a dash back at them via bumper for an attack when instead you dash down via bumper and run at them on the ground for an anti air attempt. In turn when you've conditioned them to react a certain way you can manipulate their next action and get the desired punish. Only when you've got a better read on the situation, THEN you can bumper dash at them for the overhead or desired mixup.

What you get from this?

-Bumper dash at them, command grab if you feel a jump

-Bumber dash at them jC, cancel to triple nails for extended pressure if you feel. NOT REQUIRED JUST AN OPTION!

-Bumper dash down, run in command grab

-Bumper dash down, 5A, and start ground pressure

-Bumper dash up, toss nail of choice

-Bumper dash up-back, to avoid certain reversals

The possibilities and options are pretty open, its just on a per situation basis and how the Bang player is reading into the match.

Bumpers are a tool for conditioning in a nutshell. The only problem I've had with bumpers in CS2 is the reset damage mid screen can be weak due to Bang not really having a strong mid screen combo game outside of fatal counters and other counter hit situations. Because more than half the time you'll be aiming to use 2A to start and that move prorates to no end. Theoretically you could be quick enough to net a command grab during a bumper reset for some good damage but again, requires reading and conditioning your opponent really really well.

Some extra notes on TK'd Bumpers

-A & C: You can TK them right off the ground and be in perfect iAD height for the mixup at hand or even just general movement.

-B & D: The button input after the motion is slightly delayed. So 21479 DELAY BUTTON INPUT, B or D.

Takes a short bit of timing practice for B and D however its nothing to hard.

My 2cents.

Keep in mind my emphasis on READING the situations and opponent!

Edited July 1, 2011 by Kensou

[huey253]

thanks Kensou

[Lord Cruxis]

Alright this is an awesome read. Good stuff Huey. Although I got a few questions.

For the tager vs bang match. Does Bang still have that glitch were if he attempts to backdash while tager attempts a magnetise move while bang himself is magnetic, does he cancel the back dash animation complete and still keep the invincibility frames?

Also do we still have that thing(I guess its an option select) were if bang does ANY of his drive move and we expect a grab all we have to do is press 1 or 3+A+B+C and tech the grab still?

I'm into the silly little things lol.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Lord Cruxis

[kaeru]

Awesome guide Huey! Thanks for taking the time to put it all down.

There were some absolutely amazing resets of ground grab in CS1 using a bumper placement to stop your movement, then hit the opponent as they come back to you, then use the bumper for very strong command grab reset. Perhaps with the new properties in CSX for Bang's ground grab we can revive them. Also thanks for your input as well Kensou !

@Lord Cruxis, i can confirm at least that the backdash animation is not cancelled by the presence of a magnetic move while magnetized. We have an awesome Tager in our community and i've had lots of failed/successful backdash attempts against magnetism. It's never skipped the animation and kept invincibility before in CS2.

I need to give that 1abc during drive another try, though

Edited October 13, 2011 by kaeru

[Midnight-Zephyr]

I didn't even know that nailglide even existed!

Then again, i'm kind of a scrub. This guide is very helpful regardless.