[CS2] Valkenhayn Beginner Tips

[Kakimori]

Hi, I'm a relative beginner to BlazBlue and a Valkenhayn user (my other character is Lambda, but I'm pretty terrible with her). I'm posting here because I'd really like to hear any basic combo tips or strategies people have for Valkenhayn, since mine is really not that great. I should say that although I'm not really new to fighting games, I find the combos in BlazBlue EXTREMELY difficult (it took me about 2 hours to be able to do the CH 5B,5C,236C~9D,j.AAA,j.236A,j.236B,j.214A combo in the challenge section, and I still can't do the last j.214A consistently).

My two main talents for fighting games are spacing and reads. I don't have the best reaction time and I'm not good at really hard inputs, but I'm pretty good at using my reach with a long-range melee character (Nightmare in SC2) and telling what people are going to do. I like Valkenhayn for that reason: he has a lot of long-range, slow melee attacks that are relatively safe or even + on block, a good air dash, and the ability to become a rush-down character for a few seconds when needed (oddly enough, I hate Hakumen, though).

-My main spacing tools with Valkenhayn are 5C and j.C, and I land them both a lot.

-I try to use 6B as a meaty in the corner after knockdown, but I'm not very good at it yet.

-I feel like 6B and 6C are some of his best moves if you can get them out there, and I want to use them more, but I don't find too many opportunities for them.

-I try to use the guard point on 6A sometimes when I'm in the corner, but mostly you're not actually that close to anyone, and if you are, their 5A or 2A will usually outspeed and beat you out. I'm close to filing this move in the useless department.

-If they are blocking my wolf AAA low, I can use 5C~5B for the instant overhead, which is really nice.

-I almost never use 236C because it's really unsafe on block and I can rarely hit confirm off a 5C by itself, which is what I land the most.

-I'm also a bit afraid of using 236B~236B because of how unsafe it is on block.

-I love running in on someone as the wolf after a knockdown, then trolling them with 4C or 9C into pressure.

-I never really use Mondlicht, but I think it might be nice if I could figure out a way to land it.

-The main combos I actually land in matches are (don't laugh, I'm REALLY a beginner):

5C, 236A~D, wolf pressure

2C,6B,5C,236A~D, wolf pressure

[w]236A,j.236B,j.236B,j.236B,j.214A (SO SCRUBBISH)

5B,5C,632146D

j.C,236236C

The. End. I win matches based on good spacing, good blocking, and the occasional throw, but I have to work really hard for it and I'd like to be able to at least do a basic 3000 damage combo or something. Does anybody have any suggestions? I find it next to impossible to do things like combo as a wolf in the air and then hit C~D with the right timing to transform back into a human and keep comboing, or land an aerial j.B as the wolf and then land, hit D, and hit 2C in time to combo. If somebody has a video that demonstrates the proper timing, I'd be willing to try, but it might be better if I started off with a slightly simpler combo that still does good damage (if any exist). Combos that follow up a 5C, j.C, 2C, [w]5B, or [w]236A would be especially useful.

If you haven't noticed yet, I am REALLY a beginner, so any tips, strategies, or advice would be really really welcome!

[Sahgren]

For one, we do have a combo thread that lists practical found combos and a Q&A thread for questions on how to do something/why you should do it, so be sure to check and post in those next time.

As for things such as wolf cannons > [w]j.C~D > j.B > dj.B > dj.C and [w]5B > j.D > j.B > dj.B > dj.C, you'll just have to get used to the timing on those. They're fairly standard in Valk's combos, and basically every combo after a certain point requires that you be able to consistently switch between human and wolf.

Some simple combos to learn first:

[w]5B > j.AAA > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A

While it's not the complete combo, it is something to tide you over until you can get down changing back and forth in between wolf and human mid-combo. Also useful for when you're running out of wolf meter and just can't afford to do the full combo. Make certain to delay the j.236A > j.236B so that the opponent is below you for the j.214A, otherwise it'll whiff.

Can be started off of a [w]236A, but you'll have to run back under them to position yourself correctly for the [w]5B.

[h] CH 5B/ CH 5C/ Crouching 5C > 236C > 9D > j.A > j.236A > j.236B > 5C/6C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.D~B > dj.B > dj.C

Basic combo for if you hitconfirm a CH 5B/ CH 5C/Crouching 5C. The j.B > j.B is a link, so time hitting the second j.B right as you see the first end.

Can also be started if you can hitconfirm a j.C on a crouching opponent. Just start is off as j.C > 5B > 5C instead.

[OrionXElite]

Technical Discussion

We've also got our Technical thread which is where the Valk boards are most active. There aren't many of us so we all pretty much just congregate here. I'll let this thread stay open for now, but I'm gonna close it once its purpose has been fully served.

As for stuff to work on, Sahgren pretty much covered everything thats good to start with. I'd only add that you need to make sure you use [W]5B a lot as thats your Anti-Air and its a damn good one. Its also really easy to confirm into a combo. Just use the one Sahgren posted and you can add the ender in later when you feel ready to learn it. Be sure to get accustomed to how his Beast Cannons work([W]236A j.236A etc) because in pretty much all of his combos, you need to add a delay in between each of them in order to keep them at the right height.

[Kakimori]

The problem with the combo thread is that it mostly lists the most efficient combos, which are more or less too hard for me right now.

Thanks for the advice and letting the thread stay open for now, though!

I didn't realise that [w]5B is a good anti-air as well as a launcher, and I'll definitely try to get some of those combos you mentioned down.

[w]5B,j.D,j.B,dj.B,j.C might not be too bad for me...I mostly have trouble when I have to switch using C~D.

[Son of a Gun]

I think this topic can be handy for aspiring Valk players. Asking *stupid* beginner questions in combothread won't contribute to the thread I think.

Sort of like the SRK "Saoikyo Dojo": 'No question is too basic here!'

I personally have played Rachel since first days of CT and still main her, but have Valkenhayn 'ambitions' as sub. Right now I don't know much about him yet.

- I have VERY basic questions like is it at all possible to end a mid-screen combo with 6C or Nacht Rozen?

- Or what NORMAL moves can follow up into wolf? When I try to got into wolf mode after moves like A,B,C I'm never on time to continue a combo as wolf. Same from wolf to human btw. Exception is wallcombos (and specials ofcourse).

[Dark Laplace]

I'd also think that having a Valk topic for beginners is good. Since my old main (Hazama) got changed up to the point where it wasn't as fun to play as him (thank you new balancing patch >.<) I've decided to make Valk my main rather than a sub. I don't have any questions now persay but I will stalk the combo thread for now lol :P

[OrionXElite]

I realized that maybe keeping a beginner thread open would be beneficial for new players to start so I'll either just keep this how it is or make a new one with some actual beginner friendly starting points.

To answer an earlier question, ending combos midscreen with 6C or Rozen is possible in some cases. Its usually not a good thing cause despite the good corner push, you lose your oki which is bad cause Valk has some of the best oki in the game. 6C is more doable than Rozen due to how Rozen usually makes them fly the wrong way or whiff entirely cause of how far he moves.

As for normals that can cancel into Wolf, there are 4 that cancel on hit and and 1 that can cancel before its active Frames.

On Hit, you cancel these normals: 5A, 2A, j.A, 6B(2nd Hit)

You can also cancel 6C before its active Frames begin for mixup.

As for combos off of these, there is only one that lets you combo off of the Wolf Cancel and thats ONLY if you can hit a 6B Fatal. FC6B>3D>5C(Brake)>j.A>Land>5B>JC>j.B>3C>j.A etc etc etc. Surprisingly, going for 3D off of 6B isn't a bad idea most of the time. At worst, you could be at +5 off of 6B. The huge amount of blockstun makes it really hard to mash out against a Wolf Cancel especially if they don't have a reversal. It automatically confirms its own mixup/combo should you hit it Fatal or they block it. And you don't even have to Wolf Cancel it if you don't want to. If they're still close to you, reset your pressure into 2A if they don't IB cause its pure blockstun and mix up up from there.

[Rakaneth]

I'm trying to incorporate wolf mixup into my game right now. At the moment, my midscreen offense consists mostly of IAD jC (which beats a lot of things, I am finding), fishing for 6B starters midscreen, and 2A mash into Jager for human mixup. I'm trying to learn to wolfcancel out of Jager, but I get beat out of startup by mashing. Help!

[Sahgren]

I'm trying to incorporate wolf mixup into my game right now. At the moment, my midscreen offense consists mostly of IAD jC (which beats a lot of things, I am finding), fishing for 6B starters midscreen, and 2A mash into Jager for human mixup. I'm trying to learn to wolfcancel out of Jager, but I get beat out of startup by mashing. Help!

One thing you can do is to try wolf cancelling backwards instead of forwards. Use 4D/7D so that you juke backwards to dodge the poke, then come flying back in with [w]j.A/j.B to punish their mashing. Problem with this is that it doesn't beat all kinds of mashing; if they use a slower attack with a bigger hitbox (such as their 5B) there's still a chance that they'll hit you out anyways.

Main thing is just keep 'em guessing. Mix in wolf cancelling forward to make them want to use fast attacks like 2A that you can beat if you cancel backwards, and cancelling backwards that make them want to use slower attacks that you can beat out by cancelling forward.

P.S. It's worth noting that there are some moves that just beat out wolf cancelling after 236A no matter what you do (Noel doing IB > 6A comes to mind), so in those situations you're just locked out of using 236A to reset pressure when they're blocking.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Sup fellow 6 Heroes. I'm currently trying to learn to play Mr. Hellsing, I know personally that I have decent input skills, but I think through my moves. So I was hoping that an input heavy sub may improve my skills. That and in my book besides Hakumen and Hazama he's the only other cool character in this game.

I'm trying to get used to [w]5b>[h]jb>jb>jc>konig flug and such. Anyone has tricks for that, I always press [w]5b and then drive before I actually get into the air.

[OrionXElite]

[W]5B>j.D~B is a bit of a hard link when it's late in the combo obviously. The way I do it is I hit the Wolf 5B, tap 9 to jump forward, then I kinda plink D~B so he turns back into Human and the j.B comes out as soon as possible. It's hard to explain the timing, you gotta try it to get used to it.

Alternatively, you could do the [W]5B>j.AAA>j.D~C>Konig Flug ender. Not any different difficulty wise but it's different enough to be a preferred route for some people. Same condor applies after the third j.A, hit 9, then plink D~C to connect the j.C. It's really just a practice thing, you'll get it soon :3

[Ronove]

then I kinda plink D~B

Wait, you mean you do D+B > B as button press? Care to explain in detail? I roughly know about p-linking from SF4 but this is the first time I hear of this in BB.

[StarGazer]

Valkenhayn's [W]5B > j.D j.B should be inputted fast, but not as fast as a plink :p

Valkenhayn is a really hard/unique character you might have trouble learning him, but of course if you are good then you will need less than 4 days. I took 6 days to nail all his stuff especially getting used to the instant overhead and its combo:v:

Its good to have a beginner thread. I will try to help on it.

[Ronove]

Well the input is practically as fast as the [land] > D > 2C string in his combos, it's almost a simultaneous button press.

[StarGazer]

yeap, but i see the land > D > 2C harder imo. will i guess you can call it Plink but i prefer to use the Plink term to the very strict links like Makoto Kara Cancel (you have only 1~4 F window or you will miss it).

If anyone wants to practice the land > D > 2C link then he should practice these combos:

-[W]B > IAD > j.B > 3C j.A > Land > D > 2C

-Rozen > 9D > [W] j.B j.A > Land > D > 2C

as for [W]5B > j.D j.B try it straightforward like this combo:

-[W]5B > j.D j.B > j.B j.C > Konig

[Ronove]

-[W]B > IAD > j.B > 3C j.A > Land > D > 2C (you can omit IAD)

imho it's better not to omit the IAD, depending on the spacing the last bit might whiff so it's better to just learn to always do IAD [w]j.B that way it's 100% guaranteed that the following part won't whiff no matter at what distance the combo was hitconfirmed.

For anyone having issues with the IAD, just buffer [8] during as [w]5B hits and then do 66 [w]j.B, I personally find more comfortable to do than doing 96

[Sahgren]

[w]5B > IAD > j.B also has the added bonus of getting you a bit of extra corner carry. It'll let you get off the full corner combo from ~1/3 of the stage away from the corner rather than requiring you to be almost directly in it.

I dunno why, but IADing in wolf has always been awkward to me. I'm used to 96, but with wolf I usually have to do 966 to get the airdash out.

[OrionXElite]

Valkenhayn's [W]5B > j.D j.B should be inputted fast, but not as fast as a plink :p

Valkenhayn is a really hard/unique character you might have trouble learning him, but of course if you are good then you will need less than 4 days. I took 6 days to nail all his stuff especially getting used to the instant overhead and its combo:v:

Its good to have a beginner thread. I will try to help on it.

Yeah I know the input isn't a plink by definition but it was the easiest way to describe how I do it as I've always had a weird way of doing things so its hard to describe. Its not a technical plink but the its the same concept of pianoing the necessary buttons to get the inputs out as fast as possible. So while the technical term "plink" doesn't correctly apply in terms of what its used for, the concept oh HOW you do the inputs can apply just as effectively...If that makes no sense, I'm sorry:v:

[StarGazer]

it will be better to always IAD... i dont know what i was thinking of when i wrote this omit thingy

Yeah I know the input isn't a plink by definition but it was the easiest way to describe how I do it as I've always had a weird way of doing things so its hard to describe. Its not a technical plink but the its the same concept of pianoing the necessary buttons to get the inputs out as fast as possible. So while the technical term "plink" doesn't correctly apply in terms of what its used for, the concept oh HOW you do the inputs can apply just as effectively...If that makes no sense, I'm sorry:v:

Make sense, you shouldn't be sorry for anything tbh am sorry for commenting on everything

[Sahgren]

it will be better to always IAD... i dont know what i was thinking of when i wrote this omit thingy

Make sense, you shouldn't be sorry for anything tbh am sorry for commenting on everything

The omit makes sense in that it isn't strictly necessary, it just helps. I'll be honest and admit that I'm lazy enough to not include it if I think I can complete the combo without it.

[OrionXElite]

Make sense, you shouldn't be sorry for anything tbh am sorry for commenting on everything

Oh theres no need to apologize for having questions. If you're willing to learn and ask questions, I'm more than willing to explain things multiple times and in multiple ways if it helps cause sometimes if you don't ask, you just can't figure it out effectively :3 Also this is a Beginner Thread, questions are always welcome.

[Tong]

Is 2A j.C insta overhead something gimmicky that must be used ocasionally or a powerful tool?

What's a nice combo from it?

[Sahgren]

Is 2A j.C insta overhead something gimmicky that must be used ocasionally or a powerful tool?

What's a nice combo from it?

It's a powerful tool; it also works off of just 2A and 2A > 5B, if you get the spacing correct.

The combos I usually do off of it:

Mid stage

j.C > RC > j.C > 5C > 236C > 9D > j.B > j.A > land 5D > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.B > j.214B > 5D > j.236B > 7C > j.B > dj.B > dj.C (4076 DMG, 43 MG)

Corner to Corner

j.C > RC > j.C > 5C > 236C > 9D > j.B > j.A > 5B > 236B > j.236B > 4C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.AAA > dj.D~C (3334 DMG, 25 MG)

You can do ... > j.A > land 5D > 2C > 5C > j.D~A > j.236A > j.236B > ... instead for more damage.

Corner

j.C > RC > j.C > 3C > step forward 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > j.214B > 1D > 236B > j.236B > 4C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.AAA > dj.D~C (4435 DMG, 40 MG)

[Jiggmaster]

Per curiosity for all the people here, what would you say are a couple of good approach methods with Valkenhayn?

[Mr.EG3K]

Yeah, I must say I'd like to also here some opininons on some of the more/most effective methods for making safe approaches on opponents, in general.