[FB] General Discussion Thread

[MetalMaelstrom]

You shouldn't get too caught up on what tier your unit is. Because it's a 2v2 game, having a compatible partner and/or working well with him can cover a lot of bad matchups. Just play whatever unit you want.

tenkai-45i[xTF];1290884']This. This. This. Also' date= America's level is honestly not at the level where we need to worry about our suits being too weak for competitive play. Every person in this community has very fundamental things that they need to work on, so until we refine that, then we can worry more about tier lists.

You're both right. Team synergy is very important and America's play is piss poor right now (but honestly, that's not going to be changing anytime soon, so that's a problem for another day). However, that doesn't change the fact that Wing Zero is arguably the worst 3k gundam available. I really don't even mind tiers that much, it's just that Wing Zero is truly terrible, at least from my perspective.

Consider the following:

1. Wing Zero's BR is god-awful. Yes, the damage is great. Yes, it only takes two hits to cause knockdown (up from just one in the last game O_O). The things that make it bad are its terrible range, drastically sub-par homing capabilities, and it takes forever to even get one shot off. The likelihood of you hitting your target, as long as they're paying attention to you, is rather slim, especially if you're playing against someone who knows what they're doing.

2. The rest of Wing Zero's arsenal is just a mess of gerobi's (except for the even more terrible, non-locking machine guns). They have the same problems as his BR except to an even worse degree. Plus the damage they do is lack-luster compared to many of the other gerobi's in the game and also have less priority/super armor (save for CSa which has melee invincibility).

3. Melee capability is sub-par, at least for the 3k category. Even nu and Hi-nu do just as high of damage in their default melee strings, and have better ranged capabilities to boot.

4. Probably the most important reason of them all: mobility. Now I'm not talking his boost or his evasive flight mode, cos those are actually pretty good. The fact that Wing Zero has a floating effect whenever he lands is bad. He decelerates considerably due to this float effect which adds to the recovery frames in just normal landing. The fact that it's harder for Wing Zero to land means that he's much more liable to get hit by people spamming beams and taking advantage of his extra recovery. When compounded with his large hit-box and average (for a 3k gundam) health, Wing Zero just becomes an easy punching bag.

Again, I'm not saying that it's impossible to win with Wing Zero. Just know that you'll be playing with a severe handicap.

[xlolxlolx]

^this pretty much but he does have some tricks that still make him viable at the competitive level

until you get to the level where you can carry bad partners, don't go for 3k's because they're not cost efficient enough to make it worthwhile.

most 2.5k's can perform as well as mid-low tier 3k's, but you should definitely get used to playing 2k's because they are overall the most cost efficient.

but if youre playing against americans online it doesnt matter at all

[brett_]

@Blade: If BBCSEX, GGAC back in the day, etc was 100 USD would that stop you from buying it? I am quite tempted to say if you're that concerned about price you shouldn't bother buying it.

You really won't get much out of this game unless you have some enthusiasm. I see plenty of people (some from this thread even) talking up a storm about how they cant wait for this game or what not, then end up just quitting after a while because they don't have the motivation to seek out matches despite several lively streamers and multiple communities (not to mention a tourney scene). People who live outside of WC or Canada often just cry about being red bar with japan and getting no games. And even within the realm of yellow bar to japan (WC), some people still cry and quit after being unable to reach bronze1/2 on netplay :/. So yeah, just suck it up and skip some meals, it aint going down in price any time soon.

With regards to playing a 3k:

I was more talking about playing any 3000 cost gundam since I don't want to be a huge burden to whichever team I'm on by, say, dying too often.

Playing 3K is actually not a big problem. It's true that you carry more "weight" on the team due to your cost, but taking damage is actually the least troublesome when you're 3K. As 3K you're pretty much always the designated front player, so it's to be expected that you take damage. Even if you dont succeed in accomplishing much, you're creating openings for your partner. In addition, 3Ks are the easiest cost to manage extreme meter activation timings, because it's very easy to get your 3 half-activates. Wing's activation timing is a little more subtle, but with regards to 3K's in general its pretty accurate.

Also, 3K's are the best suits for dying first (a common problem new players suffer). Dying before your partner as a 3K is almost always the optimal order, no matter your partners cost. The same cannot be said of 2K, the other beginner-friendly cost value, where dying first can pretty much throw the game a lot of the time due to overcost.

I'm not saying 3K is a better starting choice than 2K, but you really shouldn't be worried about being a burden. Honestly I feel much more comfortable having a lackluster front player than a lackluster back player.

From an RTS perspective, you could say the front player does more of the micro, while the back player does more of the macro play (its much more complicated than this in actuality, but anyways...). In many ways, the responsibilities of the back player are equivalent, or even more demanding than the back player.

Many players like tenkai and lark played a lot of front player high cost business while learning, and they're doing quite fine.

[snip] don't go for 3k's because they're not cost efficient enough to make it worthwhile.

most 2.5k's can perform as well as mid-low tier 3k's, but you should definitely get used to playing 2k's because they are overall the most cost efficient.

Mobility and boost more than make up for any kind of lack of cost efficiency. 2.5k is also a pretty unrecommended cost to learn, but better that than 1K I suppose. burst timing and death timing is not really beginner friendly with that cost value.

With regards to w0:

However, that doesn't change the fact that Wing Zero is arguably the worst 3k gundam available.

1. Wing Zero's BR is god-awful...The things that make it bad are its terrible range,

Honestly its range is QUITE sufficient for what it is. If you even attempted to fire it farther than that, it wouldn't work regardless.

...drastically sub-par homing capabilities

So yes the actual GUIDANCE on the beam itself is mediocre. It's a fucking gerobi. However, the actual TRACKING during the startup of the move is actually quite amazing, one of the best in the game. It's for that reason his BR is often considered terrifying at close range, and part of the reason why complaining about its range is foolish.

...and it takes forever to even get one shot off.

Because we all wish we had a gerobi that had instant startup. It's true that the startup does take a while (or rather, due to the way the beam's active frames work, it can't be bd cancelled immediately for the full effect), but if you just think of it as a gerobi rather than a traditional BR, I don't really see how you can complain. BR itself is not the problem.

The likelihood of you hitting your target, as long as they're paying attention to you, is rather slim, especially if you're playing against someone who knows what they're doing.

So how does wing win at all then? On a serious note, if you're saying this, you could also say the same about Cherudim's BR. It sounds like you're just flying around mashing BR at people in the air or something. People seem to forget what landing punishes are.

4. Probably the most important reason of them all: mobility [snip] The fact that Wing Zero has a floating effect whenever he lands is bad. He decelerates considerably due to this float

effect which adds to the recovery frames in just normal landing.

His floatyness is actually not a disadvange. It's better to think of it as a doube-edged sword. While you may be susceptible to opponents sneaking a landing off and then punishing you, Wing's mobility gives him a very clear edge in the boost war. You can't really discuss Wing's float without talking about his mobility. His floatiness is what gives him his boost efficiency...

Overall, while Wing Zero isn't considered a good 3k suit, it's actually pretty beginner-friendly. Or rather, it's very good at helping new players understand real game fundamentals. That is because the primary way Wing Zero deals damage is via landing punishes, or the threat of them (on a basic level). Pick a suit like unicorn and you might end up not understanding why your shit doesnt hit anyone later on. Wing Zero is actually one of the most brain-dead suits in the game, particularly] at low level. Press A, and AC sometimes. You don't even need to know how to use BC until you get above 1.2k SP. The rest is understanding how to read boosts, match angle, and defend. This suit will force you to learn how to landing punish one way or another, which is pretty healthy for your early growth in preventing some common bad habits. Gunner Zaku is considered pretty damn mediocre, but is practically S tier in america for the same damn reason: basic gameplan. Press A. troll a bit. AC. Summon Shin.

Reading this thread I wasn't sure whether I was reading posts by people who don't play Wing at all, or people who play wing poorly and want to complain.

Edited March 17, 2012 by brett_

[qwerty]

I'd have a PS3 right now, except around this time last year I made the big gay mistake of getting a PSP and NEXT, which didn't cost much less than a PS3 + EXVS would today. Later this year I'll have the game, though.

Honestly, I think this game has everything needed to be successful in the States (the netcode probably took all of us by surprise), except there's one huge ass problem: it requires an ungodly amount of resources to run at tournaments.

4 PS3's, 4 monitors, 4 sticks, 4 copies of the game. Okay, doable, just ask everyone to bring their own setup. Now we need an internet connection. How many venues have a decent internet connection, let alone one that doesn't have blocked ports and isn't being raped by a stream? Or better yet, a wired connection that's readily available? And therein lies the problem; why travel to play on a shittier connection than what you have at home? I'm sure this isn't a problem at any arcade that has PS3 EXVS, but what about Evo? FR? NEC? How are people gonna play this game at larger tournaments?

[Tari]

The internet connection itself doesn't have to be good, it just has to exist. As long as we can hook up to PSN and have all the PS3s wired to a single hub/router, we can play the game with faux-LAN and blue connections.

Though, I admit that doesn't make the issue much easier to address.

[vibratingsheep]

FYI, all of the Super NCI videos are now up at FinestKO's YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/finestkoproductions). Let me know if there's anything I can do better in the future with recording - this was the first live run of the system, and any advice on what I can do to improve will be appreciated!

[Dakanya]

I noticed sometimes there wasn't sound? I guess it depends on the setup. Other than that, I think my main complaint would be how much got miscommentated or how many key moments get missed, lack of game knowledge? Like when Master dies in Gold mode, it's not that he won't be able to burst again, he just won't get to burst three times. If he's coming in with full life he's definitely going to build another half-burst, etc... stuff like that. Commentary is hard and well it takes someone who really plays the game in the first place to commentate well.

[vibratingsheep]

I noticed sometimes there wasn't sound? I guess it depends on the setup. Other than that, I think my main complaint would be how much got miscommentated or how many key moments get missed, lack of game knowledge? Like when Master dies in Gold mode, it's not that he won't be able to burst again, he just won't get to burst three times. If he's coming in with full life he's definitely going to build another half-burst, etc... stuff like that. Commentary is hard and well it takes someone who really plays the game in the first place to commentate well.

Sometimes there wasn't sound? Hmm, could you show me where? The one time I did notice that there was no sound, it was because someone shoved the mixer and pushed the commentary volume down to zero. Was there another time where there was no game sound either? In our testing, that only came up if the PS3 was configured improperly.

Also, yes, it's definitely hard to keep track of so much going on at once for commentary, but we did the best we could with the people who weren't playing - I spent a month and a half building the setup instead of working on my own game :/

[Dakanya]

Sometimes there just wasn't any game sound but there was still commentary so no worries there. Thanks for providing the stream equipment, I hope you'll be able to make more time to play before the next NCI!

[Blade]

Man, fuck this game....

[Dakanya]

yeah full boost has been out for a month now... more importantly why haven't people been playing exvs?? D:

[Dakanya]

sorry about the double post but... we are now recruiting all pilots to come fight at EVO =]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14154-Gundam-EXVS-side-tournament-at-EVO2k12

[AirMaster]

Anyone here still plays this?

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[AlexSanteria]

I'm still playing. I just picked it up.

[Kurushii]

REVIVE FROM THE DEAD!

NEW DLC COMING!

[Pichy]

...Stamen? I don't recall Full Boost having the Stamen. So either Bandai's using DLC as a way of beta testing before another cab update, or perhaps they're going to make Full Boost a DLC upgrade instead of a seperate disc. Either way, it's certainly bizarre. And nifty.

[Dakanya]

i think they just want money. well they can have my money, just give us full boost already @_@

[AirMaster]

I seriously can't wait. Hopefully people will start playing again.

Anyone else think they'll release other FB units via DLC? If so, which ones do you want?

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[qwerty]

Holy shit gp03 yessss

[bchan009]

Will someone please play with me? Pretty please please please please please please?

I'm in Hong Kong. I have 100Mbps fiber optic internet. Please. I'm desperate for Extreme VS action.

All the HK arcades are dominated by GvG NEXT Plus and Federation vs ZAFT II.

Please.

Someone.

Anyone.

D:

[M.Song]

I seriously can't wait. Hopefully people will start playing again.

Anyone else think they'll release other FB units via DLC? If so, which ones do you want?

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i want stargazer :<

[StarGazer]

i want stargazer :<

Me here

[AirMaster]

Haven't seen many videos of Stargazer. I'd love for Efreet and Reborns Gundam to be available as DLC.

[qwerty]

I'd give my left nut to have Epyon back in FB. I think Epyon would work much better in EXVS than in older games, even as a 3000 point suit.

[haketh]

So what are the best resources for info ont he game? Really wanna start entering the Dogfights for this.