[CSE-CP] Jin General Thread "Jin it to win it... again"

[Akira-Shiro]

> Jin does a truckload of damage with 25 Heat or an OD. He also does a lot of damage off a CH, crouching confirm, or AA confirm.

Jin is not the only character,,, so far every character gets alot from their OD and their CT so im not seeing this as being a very strong case. As for AA what is 3k or 2k + mixup everyone gets those options once again not seeing how this really makes him strong.

> He has tools to deal with any and every situation. Where you would use Ice Blades A and B to bait anti-airs, you'll use Hizansen, even though it's not as good as the former.

We are not talking about just baiting AA, his ice blades were also used to lockdown zonners to provide u with the time u need to get in. Jin will always be solid.

> He actually has an OH now in the form of Hizangeki.

I already mentioned that aswell and its not really all that strong,, it is a good tool. However it has the same reaction as pulling up ur barrier when someone is about to CT'er you. Its a usefull tool, but not all that.

> Mid-screen, Hizansen is going to be a pretty crappy air combo finisher, however, no one will be able to roll forward because of the distance between you and your opponent after knockdown. In the corner though, you're left at the perfect distance to use TK Hizangeki and prevent people from rolling out.

As i said before this isnt even really valent,, its kinda like ending a combo with D~Dp and dasing fullscreen... U get some form of lockdown with this tool yes, but its not okizeme.

> 6A is more than +1 on hit and 2D seems like it's more than +1 as well.

-_-" really,, he should have had this crap from day 1 so this just seems natural. Its not as if people really press buttons after 2D anyway, standing 5c blows that up anyway.

> We got new mix-up opportunities off j.D freezes. You can do something like j.D > dash under 5B for ambiguous mix-up.

This is actually very good but once again not seeing it as being S-tier material. Jin will forever be a solid character.

> OD Ice Wave does a ridiculous amount of damage.

>.> Just like every other characters OD distortion........

While it's too early to set tiers, I wouldn't be surprised if Jin ends up pretty high on the tier list. He's looking really strong in this game.

Jin only looks like that due to the easy of the character,, and the fact that learning other characters is taking others so long... Im losing my patients with these free ass Carl players.. Its a bit annoying. An its not just my characters,, the characters closes to there prime are Litchi, Jin, Ragna, Tao, and Haku... every other character the players seem to be going over some gigantic ass hill and the only gravity delaying this journey is that thing called BEING FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

>.< annoying ass nonoptimal Japs piss me the hell off.

[Jyosua]

-_-" really,, he should have had this crap from day 1 so this just seems natural. Its not as if people really press buttons after 2D anyway, standing 5c blows that up anyway.

I dunno who you've been playing, but people like to press buttons after 2D all the TIME in Extend. +1 might as well not be plus at all.

[xlolxlolx]

think hes been playing cs2 jin cuz thats 9 frames to fuck jin in the ass

lockdown zoners...lol you learn to dodge shit most zoners usually kill the projectile

[Akira-Shiro]

americans get slammed by ragna's gh all day, americans gonna get slammed by hizangeki all day

hizansen is a hard knockdown, quick wakeup youll just get tagged with a 5c or w/e into 4k+

Quick rise will get Jin hit u can get up after a hanzeki or whatever very fast. Ull be up around the same time jin lands, depending on the characters normals u can hit him before he can hit u... Lol when i saw someone quick rise a lil while ago and CH Jin it was kinda funny. Im sure Jin can do something to stop them, but that would be sacrificing his pressure on wake up... Unfortunately thats not oki if ur opponent has options that are not waking up and blocking,.. Its pseudo oki,, not really legit.

[Akira-Shiro]

think hes been playing cs2 jin cuz thats 9 frames to fuck jin in the ass

lockdown zoners...lol you learn to dodge shit most zoners usually kill the projectile

From a 2D only a few characters even on IB can stop jin from 5c'in.

[C0R]

Jin is not the only character,,, so far every character gets alot from their OD and their CT so im not seeing this as being a very strong case.

Jin only looks like that due to the easy of the character,, and the fact that learning other characters is taking others so long... Im losing my patients with these free ass Carl players.. Its a bit annoying. An its not just my characters,, the characters closes to there prime are Litchi, Jin, Ragna, Tao, and Haku... every other character the players seem to be going over some gigantic ass hill and the only gravity delaying this journey is that thing called BEING FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

>.< annoying ass nonoptimal Japs piss me the hell off.

It's a different game.

The Japanese methodology of fighting games does not prioritize much experimentation, as it is a competitive environment for every single match.

Jin's tools have changed. For better or for worse is up to much debate and opinion, all mostly irrelevant until the game is available in america.

Until then we have only the evidence to go upon, and that evidence shows Jin cleaving through the carcasses of other characters. The Japanese say he's strong, and until we play the game, their conclusion is the most relevant.

[Moy_X7]

Jin is not the only character,,, so far every character gets alot from their OD and their CT so im not seeing this as being a very strong case. As for AA what is 3k or 2k + mixup everyone gets those options once again not seeing how this really makes him strong.

The thing is that Jin can use Sekkajin or 214D to boost his damage at any time, at any position in the screen. Other characters require specific setups in order to use CT mid-combo, mid-screen.

We are not talking about just baiting AA, his ice blades were also used to lockdown zonners to provide u with the time u need to get in. Jin will always be solid.

I would seriously not use the air Ice Blades against someone like Lambda. She gets 3K off an AA sword. You get what? Like 300 points of damage? lol

For the other zoners, TK j.236C does a better job than A and B Ice Blades. Air ice blades have a ton of recovery. You really don't see those used all that much during high level play as the risk is not worth the reward.

Also lol, Ice Blades are easy as hell to IB. If you're "locking down zoners" with those then they are fucking up lol.

I already mentioned that aswell and its not really all that strong,, it is a good tool. However it has the same reaction as pulling up ur barrier when someone is about to CT'er you. Its a usefull tool, but not all that.

Opinions

Once you get to play the game and you see people get blown up by Hizangeki, you'll realize just how much of a difference it might make for Jin's game.

As i said before this isnt even really valent,, its kinda like ending a combo with D~Dp and dasing fullscreen... U get some form of lockdown with this tool yes, but its not okizeme.

Valent? TF?

I said that it's a crappy knockdown, I'm AGREEING with you XD

-_-" really,, he should have had this crap from day 1 so this just seems natural. Its not as if people really press buttons after 2D anyway, standing 5c blows that up anyway.

If people aren't pushing buttons after an IB'd 2D in CSE, then they are fucking up. 2D is barely +1 on block, a lot of characters have the option to push a button, specially if you're using 5C after 2D god knows why.

This is actually very good but once again not seeing it as being S-tier material. Jin will forever be a solid character.

Of course that's not going to make him "S-tier material" on its own, its the tip of the iceberg.

>.> Just like every other characters OD distortion........

I'll give you this one lol

Jin only looks like that due to the easy of the character,, and the fact that learning other characters is taking others so long... Im losing my patients with these free ass Carl players.. Its a bit annoying. An its not just my characters,, the characters closes to there prime are Litchi, Jin, Ragna, Tao, and Haku... every other character the players seem to be going over some gigantic ass hill and the only gravity delaying this journey is that thing called BEING FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

>.< annoying ass nonoptimal Japs piss me the hell off.

The simplicity of a character should have nothing to do with tier standings in the long run. Maybe now because people are still figuring shit out and that's exactly why coming up with tier lists this early in the game is retarded as all fuck. Plat players are also struggling to come up with optimal stuff. Give it some time but I guarantee you that Jin will be A-tier at the very least when things get settled down.

[Akira-Shiro]

Getting hit with 2D places alot of characters at that distance where their only option is to 5c.. Jin's 5c has amazing speed and range making it the more optimal tool to use after a 2D. It is +1 and on IB its -2 however due to distance and spacing its actually still + because certain characters lack the reach/speed to hit him before they are hit. Unfortunatley i do not see Jins potential shooting up the latter any father than learning new OD combos... Hes at his peak already. Sure we may see some optimal hitconfirms later,, but what u see is what u get. An i see a very solid chatacter.. An im not talking from a neutral standing point when referring to his blades being used as anti zoning tools. Lambda is left wide open after a D attack and because jin is jin, any whiffed D is getting punished by D~ ice care. Which in the next installment can be combo'ed midscreen making it all the more effective. Reading an opponent knowing when and where to jump to throw the blade of your choice depending on the sitiation. Im not talking about throwing ice blades full screen after a super jump so chill. However what i am saying is that now, those reads are useless since u lack the proper tools to punish which are the specific ice blades im talking about. Primarily his D~ice blades.

[Moy_X7]

Well, looks like we're done here.

I'm curious though, next time you play against TD's Rachel, SwordofToan's Lambda, or xntrik's Mu, I want you to invite me so I can spectate and I want to see you use air Ice Blades A and B extensively. This shit I gotta see XD

[Errol]

also Errol, what's up with you and Konan, are you in love with him or smthn? lol.

Konan still plays tsubaki right?

Yes and yes.

Tsubaki doesn't have like 12384 awesome players like Jin

[mAc Chaos]

Ice blades always seemed unnecessary to me. Not many Jins used them very well in my experience except for his triple ice blade fake crossup. Seems like most of the stuff you get off the ice blades you can just do anyway with other tactics.

[toanenadiz]

I saw my name and decided to see why it was brought up and then I saw posts with way too much text so I decided to no longer care.

Ice blades always seemed unnecessary to me. Not many Jins used them very well in my experience except for his triple ice blade fake crossup. Seems like most of the stuff you get off the ice blades you can just do anyway with other tactics.

Wouldn't they be completely ineffective against Haku since he should have more than enough time to always cut or D them on reaction?

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah pretty much. Although the crossup still gets me sometimes.

Basically it never stopped Jins from beating Hakumen so I don't really see what the huge gaping hole not being able to use them leaves.

[Moy_X7]

I saw my name and decided to see why it was brought up and then I saw posts with way too much text so I decided to no longer care.

tl;dr version is that Akira believes that Jin's j.236A/B are essential when it comes to fighting zoners. So I want him to play a player who knows what their doing with their respective zoning characters and prove to me just how essential those air ice blades are in these match-ups.

[mAc Chaos]

> fight toan

> save replays

> youtube

> get account banned

[Yuushiro]

I barely use those ice blades. It's good that they are gone now and being replaced with something "better" per-se.

Many times that the landing recovery actually was the end of me by using those moves. So now I learned not to throw it just randomly, not even worth it sometimes.

[shtkn]

j.236A/B serve a purpose: it can be an anti-antiair when jumping in

It's also important for zoning since it stops opponents from running under horizontal air ice blades

Now we will have to use j.236D instead, but the new one doesn't cover as much space as before...

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

[Akira-Shiro]

Well, looks like we're done here.

I'm curious though, next time you play against TD's Rachel, SwordofToan's Lambda, or xntrik's Mu, I want you to invite me so I can spectate and I want to see you use air Ice Blades A and B extensively. This shit I gotta see XD

I except your challenge so long as u do me the favor of staying relevant and to the topic. As I said before Jin lost a tool, whether its his D~Blades or the single air blade. His tools were taken, and yes i find them useful just like any tool a character has. However the excessive use of a tool will become predictable and transparent making it easy to counteract, but at the same time i wouldnt expect someone who is not SRZ or Haven to comprehend that so this mistake of using the word "Extensively" is understandable.

[Ayashii]

Well, looks like we're done here.

I'm curious though, next time you play against TD's Rachel, SwordofToan's Lambda, or xntrik's Mu, I want you to invite me so I can spectate and I want to see you use air Ice Blades A and B extensively. This shit I gotta see XD

Not to get into argument or take sides but I do it and it has been working for me lol. Also, ice swoords on ch can land 300-2.5k depending on situation, usually I land chs or hit them and go into air normals - 5a - stuff. I would explain why but it appears I have run out of

[Moy_X7]

Not to get into argument or take sides but I do it and it has been working for me lol. Also, ice swoords on ch can land 300-2.5k depending on situation, usually I land chs or hit them and go into air normals - 5a - stuff. I would explain why but it appears I have run out of

I mean sure, they're useful but they're not something that you would use against heavy zoners. As xlolx said, characters with strong zoning will straight out beat Jin in a projectile war. I understand, j.236A/B > AD > stuff leads to over 2K. It's just that I personally wouldn't risk using air ice blades against a strong zoning character, specially not against Lambda.

@Akira - lol it's not a challenge, I just wanna see how the use of j.236A/B pans out in a match against a player who's good at using their respective zoning characters. If you don't air dash after an air ice blade, you're vulnerable even after you land. It's a huge risk to take for something that may or may not pay off.

As anti-air bait, the air ice blades are excellent tools. In a projectile war against the stronger zoners, not as much.

[cadacus_ater]

I barely use those ice blades. It's good that they are gone now and being replaced with something "better" per-se.

Many times that the landing recovery actually was the end of me by using those moves. So now I learned not to throw it just randomly, not even worth it sometimes.

I share your sentiment...the landing recovery is why I started not using them much. The risk vs reward wasn't very good in many cases, though there are always some exceptional instances where it was nice to have. I will probably miss j.236A/B and the coverage of the old j.236D at first, but I'll get used to it.

[C0R]

I mean sure, they're useful but they're not something that you would use against heavy zoners. As xlolx said, characters with strong zoning will straight out beat Jin in a projectile war. I understand, j.236A/B > AD > stuff leads to over 2K. It's just that I personally wouldn't risk using air ice blades against a strong zoning character, specially not against Lambda.

@Akira - lol it's not a challenge, I just wanna see how the use of j.236A/B pans out in a match against a player who's good at using their respective zoning characters. If you don't air dash after an air ice blade, you're vulnerable even after you land. It's a huge risk to take for something that may or may not pay off.

As anti-air bait, the air ice blades are excellent tools. In a projectile war against the stronger zoners, not as much.

^ This is also my understanding.

Also, while airborne, it's extremely dangerous for any character to do anything that puts them in CH state against µ. The raw presence of high mobility j.c is a matchup in itself.

[Moy_X7]

Wait a minute, Akira-Shiro...

Aren't you the guy that said "In reality, you don't have to block to win a match" and "I don't care if you're +10 on block, I'm still swinging".

So you really don't give much of a damn about risk vs reward, huh?

Yeah, we're through here XD

[Akira-Shiro]

I mean sure, they're useful but they're not something that you would use against heavy zoners. As xlolx said, characters with strong zoning will straight out beat Jin in a projectile war. I understand, j.236A/B > AD > stuff leads to over 2K. It's just that I personally wouldn't risk using air ice blades against a strong zoning character, specially not against Lambda.

@Akira - lol it's not a challenge, I just wanna see how the use of j.236A/B pans out in a match against a player who's good at using their respective zoning characters. If you don't air dash after an air ice blade, you're vulnerable even after you land. It's a huge risk to take for something that may or may not pay off.

As anti-air bait, the air ice blades are excellent tools. In a projectile war against the stronger zoners, not as much.

I get hit by ice blades when im Lambda, and for the record i beat Toan in A-11 mirrors... No offense to him for he is an excellent compadre. But i did win....

[NeoGio0o]

Jin combos are hype!!!! Can Jin beat Tao now or is it still going to be free like NYC condoms?

On a more serious note: Can Jin combo off 6A meterless? I have yet to see anyone do a non -RC combo.