[CSE] Relius Clover Technical Discussion

[Kurushii]

Either im lost or you guys are confused. I was speaking about this combo having height and spacing issues with some characters "IAD jB>jC>6B>AirBnB" at the jC and 6B part. Dusk is trying to recommend j8D in the middle. Remember this is AIR-TO-GROUND. The opponent is on the ground. I have no problems with his different air bnbs.

[MashThat5A]

Nah, I was confused. Yeah, I'm having issues with the spacing as well. It seems like you need to air dash at a very specific height for it to be universal. Speaking of which, I hate crouching Mu.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Oh, lol. I thought you meant air-to-air, midcombo.

That's an awfully situational combo. Relius's air normals aren't really suited for a ballsy approach like an airdash unless it's covered by chainsaw or something.

[Urichinan]

Would IAD > j.B > j.C > Dash > 2A > 6B > 6C > Haas > Dash > 6B > Ender work?

It would only take like 10% of Ignis' meter to just use Haas for the relaunch stuff.

[Dusk Thanatos]

My first guess is that'd prorate too heavily, but I don't know -- I overestimate how much things prorate a lot of the time. I'll check later.

[Kurushii]

I tried that Urichinan. Don't like the 6C in it but 2A does help on some characters. Also I went to see wtf the Guard Breakers are since I don't see it listed anywhere here. 214D, 214C, j214B, 236D, and 236236D all break one point. Sad he has no normal I can see with one. Time to start working dat yoyo into block strings. :3

[Dusk Thanatos]

And yeah, Urichinan, it does seem to work. I was lazy and didn't dash after chainsaw (did 6c>chainsaw>6b instead of 6C>chainsaw>dash 6b) but I did get a full combo.

EDIT: I also checked just Toasty's comment in the general thread about 5b>2b connecting at max range. It doesn't connect at /absolute/ max range, but works at anything the slightest bit less. It's pretty practical.

[Kurushii]

Highs:

6A, jB, jC, 214D

Lows:

2B, 3C, 236D

Fatals:

2C, 6C

Guard Breakers:

214D, 214C, j214B, 236D, 236236D

Can anyone successfully land a TK j236C on a crouching opponent? Seems like the hitbox is too much in the upper right of the frame to do.

[Kurushii]

Ignis Costs:

[Gauge Total = 10000]

[table=width: 350]

Move

Cost (Active)

Cost (Inactive)

6D

1500

-

2D

2000

-

4D

1000

-

j6D

1000

-

j2D

1000

-

j8D

1000

-

236C>214A

1000

1000

j236C>j214A

1000

1000

j236C>j214B

1000

1000

214A

2000

3000

214B

1500

3000

214C

1500

3000

214D

1500

3500

236D

1500

3500

j214B

1500

3000

632146D

1000

1000

236236D

2000

2000

214214D

0

0

[/table]

[MashThat5A]

Awesome info Kurushii.

Can anyone successfully land a TK j236C on a crouching opponent? Seems like the hitbox is too much in the upper right of the frame to do.

Yeah, it has a very high hitbox. Also, from some testing, the move seems to have a minimum height requirement. Every time I TK it with 2369C I get j.C. However, 9236C works fine. I don't think you can hit crouching opponents with it at all.

[Nemesis]

Guard Breakers:

214D, 214C, j214B, 236D, 236236D

omg x5 guard breakers? so jelly

[LunarSelenia]

Thanks for all the info Kurushii =3

Will come in handy for sure.

[Kurushii]

omg x5 guard breakers? so jelly

Yea but sadly all Ignis moves though. 236D is the best of the bunch imo. Even though it's a slow startup it is a low and can setup unblockables very easily with it.

[Dusk Thanatos]

I've TK'd 236C with 2369C pretty consistently. HOWEVER, the timing feels weird, and for 6B>TK236C, I honestly input 6B98741236C, because it somehow ends up being easier and gives the same result.

[Kurushii]

Combo Rate: 80

[table=width: 600]

Move

Damage

P1

P2

Notes

5A

240

80

84

[/td]

5B

600

90

89

5C

480x2

100

92x2

2A

200

80

84

2B

460

80

86

2C

760

80

89

6A

700

80

89

6B

580

90

89

6C

920

100

92

同技80

3C

700

80

89

jA

80x9

90

92x9

jB

450

90

89

jC

660

90

89

BC

1400

90

55

保障100

4BC

1400

90

55

保障100

jBC

1300

100

55

保障100

6D

460

100

86

2D

520, 780

100

84x2

同技70

4D

750

100

92

同技30

j6D

660

100

92

j2D

560

100

92

j8D

760

100

92

236C

950

100

92

同技10

236C>214A

800

?

92

j236C

950

100

92

同技10

j236C>j214A

800

?

92

j236C>j214B

200xN

?

92

214A

950

70

92

同技70

214B

1200

70

94

214C

850x3

100

92x3

214D

720

80

92

236D

200x8

80

98x8

j214B

200xN

100

92

[td]632146C

200x7

80

92x7

保障25(350)

632146D

800, 2500

85

92x2

保障20.35(160.875)

236236D

200x6, 300x2, 350x2, 500

70

95x10.70

保障20(600)

[/table]

[ Have to clean this one up, Source: http://www38.atwiki.jp/cs2-relius/pages/34.html ]

[Vulcan422]

Quoted from General Discussion.

Unlimited Relius changes

-Ignis always starts out with you, and doesn't consume meter while idle.

-Faster Ignis Meter regeneration.

-Can do 214B followup after 236C on ground. Normally it's air only.

-Can TK j214B.

-jB now causes ground bounce.

-2141236C New DD which has a gear sphere go fast forward like Venom's Dark Angel

-2141236D New DD which is a super version of Ignis's 214C special.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Oh wow.

j.A has a strangely good prorate. Then again, it's probably not practical to hit with it few enough times to get a good combo off it, so I guess that makes sense.

Also surprised that j.B and j.C would have the same prorate. And jump-ins covered by j.D look pretty strong, based on this.

[Solex]

do we really need unlimited relius info in here?

[Kurushii]

Why not? It's going to get lost elsewhere. Throw it in a FAQ thread or something else then.

P.S Spell my name right in the OP please :P

[Solex]

lol i forgot an i my bad but really thank you for all of the detailed info you are a great help

and i added the unlimited info

[Critical Edge]

Yeah, I tried the TK as well. It doesn't work at all on crouching characters.

In other news, here's some neat stuff I tried with Relius was 2C anti-air FC combos.

214D, 214C, and 214B hit with varying difficulties, timings, and usefulness.

214D:

Example Combo #1: 2C(FC) > 214D > 66 > 5C(2) > (HJC)jB > jC > j8D > JC > jB > jC > j8D > #IdNaiads 3298 DMG

Example Combo #2: 2C(FC) > 214D > 66 > 5C(2) > 4D > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3201 DMG

Example Combo #3: 2C(FC) > 214D > 66 > 5C(2) > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2869 DMG

214D is easiest to hit, combo, and crossover with. I'd choose this path if you need to switch sides. Damage is also fairly decent. It's also impossible to crossover when you use this move with Ignis already activated. Personally, I like how 214D are easy to combo with, but then again this particular move after a FC might not be worth it. Oh well, I find it quite cool anyway.

214C:

Example Combo #1: 2C(FC) > 214C > 66 > 5C(2) > (HJC)jC > j8D > jC > j8D > #IdNaiads 4032 DMG

Example Combo #2: 2C(FC) > 214C > 66 > 5C(2) > 4D > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC(#IdNaiads to end if too high) > #IdNaiads 3810(3699) DMG

Example Combo #3: 2C(FC) > 214C > 66 > 5C(2) > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3535 DMG

214C is usually your go-to when in this situation. 214C has INSANE proration so you'll easily be getting much more damage than any other combo you do off of 2C(FC).

214B might be the worst to use for this, but it's pretty damn stylish for what it's worth.

Example Combo #1: 2C(FC) > 214B > 66 > (HJC) jB > JC > jB > j8D > #IdNaiads 3113 DMG

Example Combo #2: 2C(FC) > 214B > 66 > (HJC) jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2872 DMG

That's pretty much all I got for it. I want more combos with 214B in it.

Here's a pretty useless combo using 214A I came up with for fun:

2C(FC) > 214A > jB > jC > j8D > jB > #IdNaiads 3048 DMG

In conclusion, you can pretty much do any kind of combo you want after a 2C(FC). You can cancel 2C with any kind of move that'll summon Ignis or you can use one of her specials. After that, you can go to town.

Here are other combos you can do after 2C(FC):

2C(FC) > 5D(2D) > 66 > 2C > 6C > 214A > jA(1) > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3151 DMG

2C(FC) > 5D(2D) > 66 > 5C(2) > 4D > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2965 DMG

2C(FC) > 66 > 5B > 2C > 6C > 214A > jA(1) > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3326 DMG

2C(FC) > 66 > 5C(2) > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2663 DMG

(Near Corner) 2C(FC) > 5D(2D) > 66 > 6C > #IdHaas > 5C(2) > jB > jC > #IdHaas > (falling)jC > 2C > 4D > 3C 4070 DMG

Essentially, it's more economical to use as little doll meter as possible until you get into the corner. That being said, if you want pure damage you'll always want to go for the 214C route.

Another thing to note are moves that can cancel into Ignis being summoned or put away.

Ignis-Cancel Normals (IC Normals):

5A

2A

5B

2B

5C(2)(Cancellable on both hits)

2C

Now that you know this, let's move on to Counter Hit combos to summon Ignis and do damage.

Combo-able IC Normals after Counter Hit are 2C, 5C, and 3C. Since we already have plenty of 2C combos already listed, I'll list a few of the other ones.

3C:

3C(CH) > 5D(2D) > 5B > 6D > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2472 DMG

3C(CH) > 5D(2D) > 6B > jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2367 DMG

3C(CH) > 5D(2D) > 66 > 5C(2) > 4D > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 2905 DMG

5C(1):

5C(1)(CH) > 5D(2D) > 5B > 6D > 66 > 5B > 3C > 6D > IAD > jB > jC > j8D > (land)(HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3565 DMG

5C(1)(CH) > 5D(2D) > 5B > 6D > 66 > 5B > 3C > (JC)2D > 6B > (HJC)jB > JC > jB > jC > #IdNaiads 3280 DMG

There's probably more, but I'm a little tired. Managed to find an easy 6K combo off of 5B for only 50 Heat. Oooohhhh boy.

[Urichinan]

Okay, now that we've definitely got people with the game who can provide useful information and such, I'm going to start the combo thread after Christmas.

I don't have the game yet, so it's not going to be completed until after the NA release, but that'll give everyone more time to develop his combos so less testing has to be done once I start listing the combos in thread.

I'll add BnB's and a few advanced things if you guys can provide me with the information for them, however I don't want any crazy or obscure combos in there until after the NA release, only the basics.

Sound good to everyone?

[Critical Edge]

Sounds good, I'll post what I can.

[Toasty]

Okay, now that we've definitely got people with the game who can provide useful information and such, I'm going to start the combo thread after Christmas.

I don't have the game yet, so it's not going to be completed until after the NA release, but that'll give everyone more time to develop his combos so less testing has to be done once I start listing the combos in thread.

I'll add BnB's and a few advanced things if you guys can provide me with the information for them, however I don't want any crazy or obscure combos in there until after the NA release, only the basics.

Sound good to everyone?

Sounds good to me. I can make the Q&A thread tomorrow, and then develop a FAQ as similar questions are asked.

Are you going to list all of the crazy/obscure combos and just bold the BnBs, or are you just going to not include them at all until the NA release?

[MashThat5A]

If it's practical, it should be in there. I'll try to optimize stuff by meter usage.