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Solex

[CSE] Relius Clover Technical Discussion

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Sounds good to me. I can make the Q&A thread tomorrow, and then develop a FAQ as similar questions are asked.

Are you going to list all of the crazy/obscure combos and just bold the BnBs, or are you just going to not include them at all until the NA release?

As a start, I want only BnB's and advanced BnB's.

Something like 5B > 3C > Id Lauger > Haas > 5C(2) > 6B > j.C > Id Lauger > Haas > j.C > 2C > 4D > 3C and then it's variants for Ignis meter saving, better damage or more meter gain.

Character specific combos will be added later, and crazy stuff like Gold Burst combos or 100% Heat stuff will be put in last.

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@Critical Edge, I could of swore you were watching my stream the other night when I was doing some of those 2C Fatal combos. You can add more damage to it with a IAD jB>jC after the 214C. Also can we PLEASE make it a standard for everyone to post Ignis cost values on their combos. If your combo can start active or inactive with Ignis then list both. I have provided the values so should not be a issue with people.

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I'm not sure if I was. I think I saw you do other combos when I was paying attention - I like to multitask a lot.

Thanks for the tip on the IAD > jB > jC by the way.

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Also can we PLEASE make it a standard for everyone to post Ignis cost values on their combos. If your combo can start active or inactive with Ignis then list both. I have provided the values so should not be a issue with people.

I was planning on doing it if people weren't going to anyway. Yes, it should be standard.

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I feel ya. Also on your AirBnB's with jB>jC>jB>jC you can put a j8D between it making it jB>jC>j8D>jB>jC. Course it's extra cost.

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ALright, so, I noticed I eat Ignis meter like nothing when I'm in pressure, and, as a result, I went to the lab to see if I could get some low Ignis meter corner knockdown combos.

It turns out that you can 3C for knockdown after a low TK ID in the corner. For example, doing 5B>5c>236C>214A>dash 6B>TK Id>3C nets you knockdown for only 1k Ignis meter. The damage is only around 3k, but the ratio of damage to Ignis meter used is pretty good, and it leaves you Ignis meter to run doll oki afterwards.

EDIT: I also had fun screwing around with 5B>3C>6D>stuff as a combo path, but I don't think the meter to damage ratio is any better than other combo paths. If someone else finds something cool with it, though, I'd like to hear.

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Also can we PLEASE make it a standard for everyone to post Ignis cost values on their combos. If your combo can start active or inactive with Ignis then list both. I have provided the values so should not be a issue with people.

We can't force people to post those costs, but I'm definitely going to put that into the first post. If someone posts a combo I would like them to put the damage values, the Heat gain, and Ignis meter usage. Later on it might actually be a cool idea to post how much meter Ignis gains back during a combo too.

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Meter gained back during a combo will be a toughie for calculation. I need to look up the formula on it. It's like After Inactive>Wait X Seconds>Start Regeration at X meter given per second. I know the tutorial vid showed it in it's on screen description in Japanese.

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Meter recovered is a lot touger, since you could also be in slow recover state. I think the thread should be organized by doll meter cost. What do you guys think?

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Nah I agree 5A and Dusk. If possible seperate those up with Ignis startup req or not.

Yea. Something like:

-Situation (Ground-to-Ground, Air-to-Ground, AA, exc)

--Starter input

---Screen Position

----Ignis Active Start

-----Ignis Cost

-----Damage

----Ignis Inactive Start

-----Ignis Cost

-----Damage

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Would it be easier to have the first separation be by button, and then have screen position and situation as sub-categories? And if you didn't already plan to do so, making the BnBs stand out from the rest of the combos would be helpful too (like bold or a different colored text or something along those lines).

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Bolding bnb's or the most optimal meter to damage ratio ones will be a nice addition later after it fills up. I think situation should always be first though. If someone is looking up combos they are going to go straight towards the one for the situation they need help with. Atleast that's how I always viewed it.

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I agree with bolded BnBs, or a separate quicklist of BnBs at the top. Either is good.

I prefer combos by situation, though. There's no real logic; I just find the organization more appealing.

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Alright here's my first batch of practical combos. Note all my 5C's are 2 hits unless stated.

Here's a key to read my notations I use to save space in my notepad:

[MS] = Mid-screen

[NC] = Near-Corner

[CR] = Corner

[iG] = Ignis Active

[CH] = Counter Hit

DM = Damage

HG = Heat Gain

IC = Ignis Cost. Value in () is if Inactive at start total cost.

Ground-To-Ground:

[MS][iG] 5A>5B>6D>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-1884/HG-19/IC-2500]

[MS][iG] 5A>5B>2B>3C~2D>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2332/HG-32/IC-3000]

[MS] 5A>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-1683/HG-14/IC-1000]

[MS] 5A>5B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2303/HG-26/IC-1000]

[MS] 5A>5B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2761/HG-32/IC-3000(4000)]

[MS][iG] 5B>6D>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-2372/HG-18/IC-2500]

[MS][iG] 5B>2B>3C~2D>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2970/HG-31/IC-3000]

[MS] 5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-2102/HG-13/IC-1000]

[MS] 5B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2931/HG-25/IC-1000]

[MS] 5B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-3557/HG-31/IC-3000(4000)]

[MS][iG] 2A>5B>6D>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-1884/HG-19/IC-2500]

[MS][iG] 2A>5B>2B>3C~2D>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2332/HG-32/IC-3000]

[MS] 2A>2B>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-1686/HG-16/IC-1000]

[MS] 2A>2B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2044/HG-24/IC-1000]

[MS] 2A>2B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2576/HG-32/IC-3000(4000)]

[MS] 214A>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-2332/HG-14/IC-3000(4000)]

[MS] 214A>66>5B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2924/HG-29/IC-3000(4000)]

[MS] 214A>66>5B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2924/HG-35/IC-5000(6000)]

[MS] 214B>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-2612/HG-18/IC-2500(4000)]

[MS] 214B>66>5B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-3179/HG-29/IC-2500(4000)]

[MS] 214B>66>5B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-3667/HG-36/IC-4500(6000)]

[MS] 214C>66>5B>5C>236C>214A [DM-3721/HG-24/IC-2500(4000)]

[MS] 214C>66>5B>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-4392/HG-35/IC-2500(4000)]

[MS] 214C>66>5B>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-4978/HG-42/IC-4500(6000)]

[MS] 214D>66>5C>236C>214A [DM-2100/HG-14/IC-2500(4500)]

[MS] 214D>66>6B>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2864/HG-26/IC-2500(4500)]

Air-To-Ground:

[MS] IAD jB>jC>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2661/HG-23/IC-1000]

[MS] IAD jB>jC>2C>236C>214A [DM-2157/HG-14/IC-1000]

[MS] IAD jB>jC>6B>6C>214A>6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-3492/HG-34/IC-4500(6000)]

Air-To-Air:

[MS] jA(1)>jB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-1904/HG-15/IC-1000]

[MS] jB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2197/HG-16/IC-1000]

Anti-Air:

[MS] 6B>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2348/HG-17/IC-1000]

[MS] 2C>236C>214A [DM-1719/HG-10/IC-1000]

Grab:

[MS][iG] BC>2D>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2825/HG-32/IC-3000]

[MS] BC>236C>214A [DM-2067/HG-13/IC-1000]

[MS] 4BC>236C>214A [DM-2067/HG-13/IC-1000]

[MS] jBC>jC>5C>sjB>djB>jC>j236C>j214B [DM-2859/HG-27/IC-1000]

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For the second grab combo the doll cost is 3K instead of 1K, and you forgot the [iG]. Other than that, looks good. I'll add stuff in a bit.

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For the second grab combo the doll cost is 3K instead of 1K, and you forgot the [iG]. Other than that, looks good. I'll add stuff in a bit.

Oops fixed. Thanks, it was late when I posted :V

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Taken from the general thread, but I think it belongs here instead:

Good stuff, I was wondering what to use to approach. Tsubaki habits have me pressing j.C all the time for jump ins >>;;

None of the 214X moves have super armor though right?

No, I'm pretty sure Ignis can be hit out of everything.

This is not completely true. Ignis has 2 moves, to my knowledge, that she cannot be hit out of:

The first one is 236236D. This is pretty straight forward (and everyone already knows about) since it works the same as Carl's super that we're all familiar with.

The second one is 2D after using 214A to advance Ignis. Let me explain:

-Ignis can be hit out of any of her D normals (2D, 6D, 4D and jD's) and during her 214X summons/specials. She can armor projectiles/bursts though. (I'm not sure if she can armor projectiles with all of her normals/specials, since I haven't tested this yet.)

-If you use 214A (already summoned/not summoned) to advance Ignis, during the recovery when she starts floating back to you, you can input D normals and her specials. The properties of all of her normals and specials remain the same except for 2D, which gains superarmor during this time for the move's entire duration (startup/active/recovery).

I've seen this happen a couple times in videos and it bothered the hell out of me, and no one else brought it up here so I thought I was just crazy. I personally tested her normals and specials with LK to see if any of them had superarmor. In the end he was able to hit her out of every single one during their startup, so I just gave up.

Then I saw 2D super armor Tager j2C, Bang 2A, as well as Ragna 5B, but I just assumed she was being hit during during some specific frames that have superarmor and that we'll find out with the mook later. I got curious so I went into practice mode last night and found this out after watching those videos again... I love practice mode.

Another thing I found out while testing this is that Ignis can go past the other character after 214A if they're close enough, so if you mash on 2D after 214A she'll sometimes start 2D while behind them, causing 2D to wiff completely. Spacing/timing will be a little important when trying to use this.

So there you go, an Ignis normal with superarmor. Kind of nice right? It gives you a pretty nice way to approach if you feel like blowing the meter for it, which is totally worth it IMO.

On the subject of approaching, dashing 236A > 6D is a really good way to approach. It's hard to hit Ignis out of 6D (and 214A as well), and 236A will dodge anything, so it's a really good way to start pressure or bait and punish spacing normals. You can almost think of it has an auto-hit confirm:

236A > 6D (blocked) > 5B2B > 6D > 5B2B > 6D/2D > etc...

236A > 6D (hit) > 5B2B > 6D > 5B > 6D > 5B > 236C > 214A

You can also combo 214A > 6D and still be able to run up and continue the combo from almost full screen. I'll do more testing on this later, but it's another pretty useful way to approach/hitconfirm.

Also, on a completely different note, has anyone figured out an optimal combo to do off of a techroll punish after 3C forced knockdown in the corner?

After 3C > JC > j5D in the corner, if the opponent doesn't emergency tech and chooses to foward roll out of the corner, you can hit them with falling jB/jC. Off of this you can do [5B > 6B > SJC > jB > JC > jB > jC > j236C > j214A > falling jB > 5C(2) > 4D > 3C > JC > j5D] and you'll be back in the same situation you were before. Also note that you recover a lot of Ignis gauge during this combo:

Example:

(2A) > 5B/2B > 3C > 236C > 214A > dash 5C(2) > 6B > SJC > jB > jC > j236C > j214A > falling jB > 5C(2) > 4D > 3C > JC > 5D [iC - 3000]

(([Opponent tech rolls out] falling jB/jC > 5B > 6B > SJC > jB > JC > jB > jC > j236C > j214A > falling jB > 5C(2) > 4D > 3C > JC > j5D)) xN

You can do this forever since you'll recover the 3000 IC used during the first combo while doing the tech roll punish combo and the punish combo only uses 2000 IC. I think this combo only does a little over 3K, which isn't bad, but I'd like to milk it for all it's worth if possible. Let me know if you guys find/see anything better.

Hope some of this helps.

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thank you for finding that out that is very strong.

unrelated but has anyone found out that relius has a glitch where he grabs at the same moment 214b attacks? the grab will be green and the opponent could tech it, but even if they do they take 1200, unless they were blocking. still i think this could be pretty useful, o btw if they try to do something they get ch and cant tech the grab its pretty funny

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Yo damn, that's really nice.

Roll punish combo:

EDIT: j.B>5C(2)>236C>dash 5B>5C(2)(JC)>j.B (JC)>j.B>j.C>j.236C>j.214A>falling j.C>2C>6C>4D>3C>JC>j.D

DMG[3.9K] IC[2000] HG[46]

Restores a ton more doll meter. Best I could get for 2K doll meter.

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Super Armor Bible

Amazing write up St1ckbug. :3

thank you for finding that out that is very strong.

unrelated but has anyone found out that relius has a glitch where he grabs at the same moment 214b attacks? the grab will be green and the opponent could tech it, but even if they do they take 1200, unless they were blocking. still i think this could be pretty useful, o btw if they try to do something they get ch and cant tech the grab its pretty funny

I checked and I couldn't make that glitch happen at all. Have any more details on it? :/

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Okay, I've started the combo thread, does the order look okay to everyone?

Combos from A moves

Combos from B moves

Combos from C moves

Unblockable setups

Tech Traps and Oki options

Within each section there will also be Mid-screen and Corner sub-categories, combos involving Ignis will be separated from the combos without her. Each combo involving Ignis' will have the meter usage displayed.

It would also be nice if we could get a video for each combo, but that would take some work.

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it looks nice urichinan but should we have combos from d moves as well?

I checked and I couldn't make that glitch happen at all. Have any more details on it? :/

umm not exactly but i will test it more when im home and ill try to record it since my brother recently got a hd pvr but neither of us really know how to work it yet lol

something i can say though is that you have to do the grab a tiny bit before the 214b attack connects since grabs have like a 7 frame startup

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