gli Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Please Read Before Posting: Previous loketest changes are not to be discussed here. Only discuss her final changes. I will compile a list of all her (known) changes in this post. As is the nature of a new release, beginning information will likely have questionable accuracy. Buffs 6C damage increasedj.2C is special cancellable on hit5A (2 hits) damage increased to 4506B counterhit has wallbound propertiesj.B hitbox changed to extend more downwardNerfs6B jump cancel is gone2C guard point comes out later (frame 5)Level 2 j.2C no longer breaks a primer4B can only be used once in a gatlingProration of normal moves changed (2C a notable one)Reduced untech time on Tiny Lobelia counterhitCharacter Combo Rate decreased (85% to 75%)Overall damage slightly decreased5CC no longer breaks a primerTempest Dahlia wind regen reduced What do these changes mean for us? [*]The ability to special cancel j.2C gives us "CT style" okizeme back (j.2C > pumpkin). This is a much safer option than having to cancel into 2A whiff upon landing. [*]Reduced proration of normals forces us to cut short certain lengthy combos (mostly corner combos). [*]2C changes make it less spammable. If you relied on this, this might be a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirbster Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I abused 6b jump cancel so much today that I don't know how I'll manage without it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted October 5, 2011 rach is a again. possibly s??? dunno about you guys, but l think now that she got ct j2c back, she is going to be be the loli people dont want to trifle with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Looks like so far sizable damage nerf unless the JPN Rachel players are trolling. Many OTZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Rachel will never be S again *snuff* About 6B jump-cancel gone: I play CT to get used to gone 6B jc and using 5A for mixups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted October 5, 2011 rach dont need damage. well, not dumb damage. hey, at least her bnb's have increased damage due to 6c. by how much, we'll see. but she looks promising. at the very least, with all the system changes, her rather small changes, and the other character's changes, she's still looking very playable. im just really hype about the j2c thing. no more having to do really risky guesses that usually dont even turn out the way l wanted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Uh... for future reference, the reason why we're saying this is the Final Changes discussion and not the Loketest discussion is only changes that have actually been posted as part of the final build should be discussed. j.2C being air cancellable does seem to have stayed. I kind of want to see what new affect 6B CH has as it's kind of clear it's not blow back anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirbster Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Oh I thought it was blowback, but still wallbounced if in the corner (sort of like her grab). Do you have the link to those Japanese discussions pl0x? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 No link, but random stuff NeoZero has been pulling from the JBBS. One combo posted was 6B CH 4D 5B as a midscreen combo which would not work if 6B CH was still blow back. The idea that Rachel has been pretty significantly damage nerfed is because a combo posted on the JBBS as doing 3k does 3.8k in CS2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordPangTong Report post Posted October 5, 2011 rach dont need damage. well, not dumb damage. hey, at least her bnb's have increased damage due to 6c. by how much, we'll see. but she looks promising. at the very least, with all the system changes, her rather small changes, and the other character's changes, she's still looking very playable. im just really hype about the j2c thing. no more having to do really risky guesses that usually dont even turn out the way l wanted. ^ this. Rachel gets good enough mixup and oki, and even moreso now that old j.2C is coming back. Losing some damage honestly doesn't concern me that much either in this case. Just as long as something like CS1 doesn't happen again. On the 6B CH follow up note, I wonder if something like CS1 can work again likeee 6B (CH) 236A 1D BBL/214C. I would support this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tari Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I wonder if 6B causes float now or something? Ugh, I want videos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 No link, but random stuff NeoZero has been pulling from the JBBS. One combo posted was 6B CH 4D 5B as a midscreen combo which would not work if 6B CH was still blow back. Sounds to me like CH 6B has normal wallbounce even midscreen (think CT/CS1 Bang 623B), and 4D is used to increase that bounce for a midscreen followup. So the old translation of wallbound was probably wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Uh... not really. It probably did wall bound but since that was the loketest it might have changed in the final build. 3C C cannon works on Ragna, Noel, Litchi, Lambda, Makoto. On Hakumen, Platinum, and Valkenhayn, you need to add 5A (probably to follow up 'cuz of hitbox reasons). I think? they did something to make Makoto easier to combo for Rachel. 6B CH is harder to use (it's the most discussed change so far). j.2C I'm like 95% sure is special cancellable on air hit. A cannon whiff into level 3 j.2C looks like it stayed dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurumster Report post Posted October 5, 2011 If j.2c is really back, I'll be playing this game again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Uh... not really. It probably did wall bound but since that was the loketest it might have changed in the final build. For Hakumen there was a move (I think Renka) that had added wallbounce property (and it could be seen in a loketest video) but it was translated as wallbound. Thought it could've been this way for Rachel too. Doesn't matter now anymore though. Final build is what counts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 南瓜の補正きつく 蛙のダメージ低下 リリーのダメージ低下 2Cのダメージ低下 6Bの補正きつく とりあえずダメージ系で分かったのはこれぐらい Uh... the only parts of that I understand are 2C, BBL, and frog all got damage nerfed. BBL nerf sounds like it's just body BBL. Someone asked if BBL rod damage is no longer sadness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I really hope rod lily got buffed again. I like the idea of sacrificing pole oki for the possibility of a more damaging super but in CS2 there really was no reason at all to not use sword iris for meterless combos/oki exclusively (maybe for a guardcrush setup, but even that was kind of iffy imo). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 6B proration is worse. So hopefully that combo earlier that had a damage reduction from 3.8k to 3k is just due to 6B being ass. Pumpkin proration is also now worse. 避雷針だけで4ヒット420ダメですた バングに5B>3D>JBあたるようになった Something something rods 4 hits (I think BBL rods) 420 damage. So... despite it being weaker than Sword Iris, it now does less damage. 5B 3D j.B something on Bang Overall weaker. :V Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chazmobile Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Those changes to BBL and frog make me kinda sad. Then I remember that j.2c is air cancellable and everything is happy again. I'm sure she'll be fine, we just need to wait and see how this pans out. Edit: That being said I really hope the damage nerf isn't that severe. It's not like she was cranking out absolutely absurd numbers in CS2 anyway. (kinda) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 JAの補正は変わらず JAから5000 5B始動50%8000は確認 ゲージ回収も特に変化なし 端避雷針&風ありでJ2C>南瓜>空アイリス>2D>JAで各種受け身に対応 無敵技は読めばバリガ2Dで大丈夫?着地硬直で無理かも Wind regen unchanged is about all I understand from this. But this post might be bogus because with BBL nerf I don't see how you can get 5k off of j.A and 8k off of 5B with 50 meter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tari Report post Posted October 5, 2011 追加C、J2CLv2のガープラ削り消えて、4B>5B>4Bも出来なくなって(4Bはガト中1回?)、いよいよガークラ狙えないキャラになったな… questionable translations from me: - j.2C (lvl2) no longer removes primer - 4B > 5B > 4B no longer works (4B may be restricted to once per gatling) - more and more, Rachel is becoming a character that does not aim for guard crush Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soniti Report post Posted October 5, 2011 JAの補正は変わらず JAから5000 5B始動50%8000は確認 ゲージ回収も特に変化なし Well, I can confirm polka's understanding of those is correct, and add that the first line says that j.a is also unchanged (i'm assuming it means you can use it for an instant overhead still). That damage sounds way too crazy for day 1 though. Perhaps it is just someone trolling BBS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calendula Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Aside from j.2c being air cancelable, has there been news about its proration ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Yeah. Pretty sure it's trolling. Disclaimer- I'm using google translate and trying to piece together things that make sense. Someone posted 2C and 100% meter is like 4.4k. ・プラス要素 6Cのダメージが気持ち上がったかも J2C空中キャンセル可 ・マイナス要素 コンボレート低下 一部通常技補正悪化 6Bjc不可、硬直増加 2CGP発生鈍化 追加C、J2CLv2のプライマー削り削除 4Bがガトリング中1回だけに リリー、ダリアダメージ低下 Buffs 6C does more damage j.2C is special cancellable on air hit Nerfs Character Combo Rate decreased Normals got hitbox nerf 6B jump cancel is gone. Something about 2C's primer breaking is changed (is that gone too?)/ might actually mean that 2C's guard point now comes later. Level 2 j.2C no longer breaks a primer 4B can only be used once in a gatling BBL and TD damage decreased 6C始動ならどんだけ伸ばそうと5B>5CC繋がる ただその後のBロベ>5CC>3C>アイリス>3C の最後の3Cが超シビアになった気がする BロベとCロベの空中ch、受身不能短くなってない? Aロベ地上chは今までと同じくらいのけぞるけど空中が拾いづらかった Other things I caught (not necessarily from this post)- Rachel's combo rate might have been decreased. A lot of people are posting that they're having a hard time extending combos (like in the post above the user said he tried using (6C?) 5B 5CC B cannon dash 5CC 3C Iris 3C and that seemed to be all you could do). Pumpkin might be level 1. Cannons are now harder to combo off of CH. (Guy above posted asking if untechable time on B and C cannons on air CH has been decreased and that A cannon on CH seems harder to combo off of). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordPangTong Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Damn, so many nerfs. 4B being once per gatling makes me sad =/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites