kotokot Report post Posted October 5, 2011 char combo rate decreased normal hitboxes worse 2C guard point startup is later(if gp means guard point) i'm sad. I think i can switch back to hakumen with his BUFFS, yep, with big letters. At least use him for tournaments as plan b) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Yeah... in that context guard point might make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirbster Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I definitely didn't expect all of that. If they touched the pumpkin... I don't even wanna think about it. Damage nerf I'm sort of okay with it. Her tools are supposed to make up for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
currentlemon Report post Posted October 5, 2011 The 4B change isn't exactly a big deal. j.2c now being air-canceled kinda covers that. Lvl.2 j.2c doesn't cause a primer break, not that big of a deal, we only used it for combos most of the time. 6b not being jump-canceled is a big nerf to me. Less safe poking. BBL and TD damage nerf hurts her a little bit too. Oh god I hope pumpkin isn't nerfed, if it is not to bad. Overall, she was slightly nerfed. Her buffs cover some of her nerfs and the other nerfs seem to be small or not really game changing. We'll see over time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I don't understand some of these changes... Normals have worse hitboxes? As if they were good to begin with... Damage nerf here, damage nerf there... Aircancelable j.2C can't make up for all that really. And if pumpkin got decreased hitstun... I just hope it's not CS1 level. I really hope there are some buffs that didn't get posted yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 6Bの硬直差かなり不利に Aロベの硬直変わらず 2Aの発生変わらず (Aロベループで確認) レリウスのやられ判定は大きめ マコトのやられ判定下に増加 端投げからのフルコンのダメージ低下(リリーの影響のためか700ぐらいダウン) Uh... I don't understand much from this other than 6B is harder to use and something else got damage nerfed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hakimiru Report post Posted October 5, 2011 6Bの硬直差かなり不利に Aロベの硬直変わらず 2Aの発生変わらず (Aロベループで確認) レリウスのやられ判定は大きめ マコトのやられ判定下に増加 端投げからのフルコンのダメージ低下(リリーの影響のためか700ぐらいダウン) Uh... I don't understand much from this other than 6B is harder to use and something else got damage nerfed. 6B is now quite negative on block No change in A lobelia blockstun No change in 2A startup (A lobelia loop confirmed) Relius's hitbox is rather on the large side Makoto's bottom hitbox is larger Damage from corner throw to full combo decreased (about 700 decrease, might be because of Lily's changes) Some of those don't seem to have much to do with Rachel >w> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Nah. Those are still helpful to know. Rachel had trouble comboing Makoto in CS2... So that's kind of nice to know. Other people posted the same. 6B being negative is probably to extra nerf Tager v. Rachel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tari Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Makoto's hitbox in the air after getting hit is -cough- amazing in various ways in CS2. Extending it downwards basically makes her the same as every other character in the cast in terms of what can hit her after being OTG'd, as opposed to magically avoiding attacks that work on everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tofurr Report post Posted October 5, 2011 A lobelia loop? That sounds interesting, but probably not that useful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Pole setups. I wonder what such a loeblia loop is supposed to look like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gli Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Interesting changes for the most part. Hopefully she doesn't end up butt compared to the rest of the final cast. I'll update my initial post when I get back from classes with more changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nini Heart Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Relentless;1156280']I don't understand some of these changes... Normals have worse hitboxes? As if they were good to begin with... http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/rachel/6A.html http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/rachel/2A.html and just to compare http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/makoto/2A.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 5, 2011 They better NOT fuck up 6A again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huey253 Report post Posted October 5, 2011 its not listed on the first post but pumpkin has worse proration and frog does less damage. hime sama was tooo strong i guess :3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tari Report post Posted October 5, 2011 I still blame aoniku (and r-1 for flaunting that 320 psr card at sbo). It's totally their faults that she's getting nerfed! That aside, I really, really want videos at this point. It's hard to tell what is and isn't accurate information on the BBS, though I think it's safe to say j.A 5000 damage and 5B 50 meter 8000 damage are false. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirbster Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Less damage is fine. After thinking about it, as long as pumpkin and 6a are still gdlk, she can't be bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 Yeah. Most of the cast got toned down. It's likely that Hazama v. Rachel, Hakumen v. Rachel, Mu v. Rachel will be really annoying. Litchi v. Rachel will probably stay even. And even though Noel still gets really high damage in the corner, drive mash died so that will help out that match up. Overall, she's not going to be super garbage... but not anything great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhannmah Report post Posted October 5, 2011 We have yet to see. All of this is quite a disappointment from what was reported from the loketests, but we haven't seen what she's actually capable of now. One thing that really irks me is the reduced combo rate, she was already very hard to combo, and combos dropped extremely fast already. I don't understand this change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted October 5, 2011 ちょっと触ったけど、5Aの補正がきつくなってる気がする。 5A2段を当てて450しか減らなかったけど、前からだっけ・・・ I think this means 5A (two hit version) does 450 damage (which is a buff). No idea what the first line means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
currentlemon Report post Posted October 5, 2011 With all these changes she maybe a high-mid/mid tier character at best. Not a bad character, but not great either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fluck Report post Posted October 6, 2011 ちょっと触ったけど、5Aの補正がきつくなってる気がする。 He says he only touched the character slightly, but it seems like 5A has harsher proration. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted October 6, 2011 normal hitboxes worse my bad, it was about proration*_* リリー>蛙>3C>放電>Aロべ>6A>アイリス>JC>2Djc>JC>リリーが出来なくなってる(2回目のJCが×) bbl>frog>3c>236a>6a>iris>j.C>2d jc> j.C>bbl does not works(second j.C does not works) :O j.2C lv2>frog>etc is harder(because of aircancel) 端で5B>5CC>5B>(JB>)JC>LV2>2D5CCからもう一回5Bで拾ってLV2いけたのが出来なくなってる cant do additional 5B>(JB>)JC>LV2 part ●~J2Clv2>空Bロベ>5B>JC>jcJC>アイリス>リリー>~何か j.2C>j.236B>5B>etc 3C>Bロベ>5Aは微ダ必要なキャラ色々変わってんのね。 バングは微ダ必要になってたわ。 changed char specifics on 3C>236B>5A, does work on bang with dash before 5A. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloom Report post Posted October 7, 2011 So is it confirmed that her air lobelia whiff into fatal j2c's gone? I knew it probably wasn't an intentional trick for Rachel in the first place, but I've been learning how to use it and it's very useful since it spares me a wind, and it's more effective/easier than estimating the maximum height of the jump to do a regular one wind fatal. Also, I'm sad to hear about combos not being able to extend anymore. I'm the type that does ridiculously long combos just for show because that's where I typically get my enjoyment out of Rachel. With j2c's buff and other changes Rachel has, I'd like to see what the JP players come up with. Seeing how she's getting nerfed in some important categories I wouldn't be surprised if some dropped her either. This is all speculation so far though so I shouldn't be talking. She might still be amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SpA]Relentless Report post Posted October 7, 2011 Doing super long combos didn't do much a lot damagewise for Rachel anyway, but it was useful because you regained all your wind with practically any combo you did. My guess is that this is why they reduced her character combo rate. This way they can keep the strong wind regeneration speed without it being retardedly good, as it was in CS2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites