[CSE] Makoto Nanaya Changes Discussion Thread

[StarGazer]

until now the midscreen options seems really limited.

[Fujiwara]

I feel like i've still yet to see anything impressive with in extent still. It still looks like she can do more in the corner but i guess and hope thatthe player in those

videos were not using her at her full potential.

Give it another month or two, I'm (semi) sure Makoto will have sone pretty amazing exploits. Someone will be able to abuse her.

The nerfs look bad to me. (Especially no more 2D corner carry..) but I'm just gunna have to play her/keep watching video to see more...

[MarkusArx]

Yeah, it's just a matter of time before someone cracks her open. The nerfs are terrible, but are kinda needed. The only thing I'm kinda 'wtf' about is the 5CC > 6B gatling still. Making 6B slower should've been the only nerf it got. >.>

[Yoshara]

But that was pretty much the only nerf it got (it being slower is pretty much what causes it to no longer combo off of 5CC).

[OmniSScythe]

I really hope when they said "All Drives have repeat prorate regardless of levels" was an error, 2D(1) could had solved a ton of her combo problems.

[SolAscension]

she had her tail cut off

[OmniSScythe]

It's more like she leaves less of an Impact now. Her drive seems more usless as part as a combo like it is on offense.

[HIGEKING42]

she looks like a inco,plete character to me.

[Nini Heart]

Good news, we'll be top tier again in the next game!

[Fujiwara]

She may be on that CS1 Rachel phase until BB3...

[OmniSScythe]

So no else notice how hilariously bad of an example it was to call a character that can still deal 3-4k damage without meter CS1 Rachel tier?

Rachel was using meter just to deal 1.8k and oki. xD

[Kimchi]

I wouldn't say she is cs1 rachel tier. But atleast for me, i've yet to see any footage(scarce @_@) of her yet that leaves a good impression on me. What i liked about her in CS1 and CS2 was how there was weight behind everything she did. I've yet to see it in CS;EX so far.

[StarGazer]

The new Makoto is ugly and not (Makoto) anymore... but she is still strong.

[MarkusArx]

I'll always love her. Waifu for Laifu times, yo.

[Yoshara]

Something I just thought about that should still work in Makoto's corner combos is "214A~C~B > 5B > 6A > 2D lvl 3".

I also thought of a combo that should work depending on proration and if Shooting Star level 3 still wall bounces in the corner/can be comboed off of in the corner:

"5B > 5CC > 5D lvl 3 > 214A~C~B > 5B > 6A > 2D lvl 3 > 66 2C > 236A~D lvl 3 > 66 5CC > JC > j.B > JC > j.D lvl 3 > 214A~C~D lvl 3 > 5B > 6A > JC > j.B > JC > j.B > 623C~D lvl 3". It's damage would probably be in the 4.1 - 4.5k range, but as I said earlier, it largely depends on if you can combo off of a lvl 3 Shooting Star in the corner (either through corner bounce/ or just being able to use an attack before the opponent lands).

[Crosell]

I'll always love her. Waifu for Laifu times, yo.

Dude seriously

she is the same. She has the same problems she did before, now she just isn't retarded like she was in cs2. Her cs2 iteration is beyond stupid. I'm liking everything I see with her so far in extend. Though, cs1 will probably be her iteration.

[Yoshara]

Let me just sum up what I think about the new Makoto: She still has 2A. She will be fine.

[Nini Heart]

Dude seriously

she is the same. She has the same problems she did before, now she just isn't retarded like she was in cs2. Her cs2 iteration is beyond stupid. I'm liking everything I see with her so far in extend. Though, cs1 will probably be her iteration.

Story wise or gameplay wise? Cause I find CS1 Makoto to be on some next level broken shit.

[Exciel]

It's more like she leaves less of an Impact now.

What you did there, I saw it.

Anyway, character love can only take you so far. I'll still use this character because I don't have much of an interest in anyone else and I'd feel it was a waste for already putting so much work into her previously. Only thing is just ask yourself, what can Makoto do now that Ragna can't do better? And the answer is probably nothing besides get a 3k BnB off standing corner hit off 2A. But that doesn't really matter for Ragna as he builds meter like mad and has better combos off random hits. Besides ASW says standing BnBs are for nerds.

Makoto's 2 worst nerfs are probably her removal of corner carrying options (seriously PF, 2D3, j.D3 is a combo wtf) and removal(?) of comet okizeme. The difference between Makoto and other offensive characters (although like every character is offensive now) is that Makoto only has combos in the corner while many (good) characters can do ok midscreen stuff off random hits or at least corner push. So what you have left is a pretty uninteresting dash in 2aaa mash character with little reward off of it. Hard to take this character seriously now but I'm sure with time she'll get somewhat better and probably won't be as bad as Taokaka. But if you think having midscreen-corner combos and okizeme is what makes a character 'retarded' then you have a really weak mindset and play too much Blazblue.

[OmniSScythe]

Story wise or gameplay wise? Cause I find CS1 Makoto to be on some next level broken shit.

You're welcome.

What you did there, I saw it.

Anyway, character love can only take you so far. I'll still use this character because I don't have much of an interest in anyone else and I'd feel it was a waste for already putting so much work into her previously. Only thing is just ask yourself, what can Makoto do now that Ragna can't do better? And the answer is probably nothing besides get a 3k BnB off standing corner hit off 2A. But that doesn't really matter for Ragna as he builds meter like mad and has better combos off random hits. Besides ASW says standing BnBs are for nerds.

Makoto's 2 worst nerfs are probably her removal of corner carrying options (seriously PF, 2D3, j.D3 is a combo wtf) and removal(?) of comet okizeme. The difference between Makoto and other offensive characters (although like every character is offensive now) is that Makoto only has combos in the corner while many (good) characters can do ok midscreen stuff off random hits or at least corner push. So what you have left is a pretty uninteresting dash in 2aaa mash character with little reward off of it. Hard to take this character seriously now but I'm sure with time she'll get somewhat better and probably won't be as bad as Taokaka. But if you think having midscreen-corner combos and okizeme is what makes a character 'retarded' then you have a really weak mindset and play too much Blazblue.

To be honest from I can work out from small amounts of footage I can definitely make out at least 2 scenarios that gives her orb oki. Her only true nerf is lack of corner carry or rather her ability to get good respectable damage off random hits.

Side note:

I got buffed, mirror match experience get!

[Crosell]

Makoto mirror matches are good for brushing up on footies and keeping mix up clean.

Yeah cs1 Makoto was crazy and was never fully explored, i still feel her moves had more synergy there than anywhere else ( Or could just be because I loved the broken asteroid vision barrier cancel) . i Just found cs1 Makoto to be way more fun than 2c Makoto (its a joke get it? )

[OmniSScythe]

Nah I fully explored CS1 Makoto for sure outside of combo video only scenarios, I mean she was getting 6k off a " jab" after just anti-airing with parry's snap effect.

[Yoshara]

Does anyone know if Lightning Arrow causes techable or untechable knockdown now?

[Exciel]

If you ask me, CS Makoto was the hype. 5D2 RC 236AA~D and double Lightning Arrow combos were mad fun.

Does anyone know if Lightning Arrow causes techable or untechable knockdown now?

Techable knockdown, which if it still has repeat proration on both versions is pretty silly. Virtually useless now outside of gimmicky approaches and perhaps cross ups I guess. It's a shame they didn't turn Shooting Star into the slick pilebunker move I was hoping they would.

[Yoshara]

According to some quick damage checking I just did (doing the same combo as was done in a CSEX video, and looking at the difference in damage) it seems that, on average, her damage on individual hits is pretty much untouched just she can't do as long of combos. What this also means is that her basic midscreen combo, depending on the starter, could pull around 3k.

The testing method I did was just doing the same combo and comparing the damage of each hit, and what I found was: The following combo of "2A > 5B > 5CC > 214A~C~B(rapid here in CS2) > 2A > 5C > JC > j.B > JC > j.B > 623C~D lvl 3" did 2051 in CS2, and in CSEX did 2192. Now doing that same combo in CS2, but with better prorating moves (instead of 2A starter and to pick up stargazer I used 5B for both, and instead of jump canceling off of 5C I used 6A), it netted 2937, and factoring in that in CSEX Makoto does about the same damage on individual hits, she should be pulling 2.9k off of that in CSEX, and off of a jump in j.CC she would pull about 3.3K.