[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[KayEff]

Ragna the Bloodedge Continuum Shift Extend General/Gameplay Discussion

Download Link to Frame Data

alright, we're gonna go in with a fresh start. no more of that "bloodedge alliance" crap.

so this topic is for discussing anything ragna related. even gameplay.

just try to keep off-topic discussion to a minimum. i don't mind the occasional talk about how lumin x carnagescissors should be made into a movie, but i really don't want this topic to turn into another netplay general, or even PSN general. doing so could bring some unwanted attention and cause a lot more mayhem than what this archaic forum already needs (and it doesn't need any).

have fun.

things i would approve of:

• ragna player discussion (from videos, casuals, etc.)
  
• general questions, i.e. fighting game term definitions
  
• questions about a move's certain attributes
  
• how to perform BnBs
  
• how to become better as a ragna player
  
• matchup discussion (although it's better suited for the actual matchup threads)
  
  
  things i wouldn't approve of in this thread:
  
  • overuse of off-topic discussion
    
  • tier list discussion
    
  • combo theory (combo thread)
    
  • what color palettes you wear/like
    
    
    
    Ragna the Bloodedge Continuum Shift II -> Continuum Shift Extend Changes
    
    
    
    • [+] Indicates a buff
      
    • [-] Indicates a nerf
      
    • [x] Means we're not sure which they fall under
      
      
      FINAL EXTEND CHANGES*
      
      
      
      • [+] j.C has a better hitbox on its lower side.
        
        
      • [+] 6B air hit now gives knockdown, can be picked up by normals and specials.
        
        
      • [+] Carnage Scissors now projectile invulnerable.
        
        
      • [+] 6D floats on hit.
        
      • [+] Forward/Back Throw are both special cancelable. Back Throw throws farther midscreen, but can still be followed up by specials, and wall bounds in the corner.
        
      • [+] j.D has more untechable time and floats on air Counter Hit.
        
      • [-] 22C now only gives 3-4 frame advantage. Can be followed up on Fatal Counter with 5A.
        
        
      • [-] Keri Age (214B -> 214D) now has a tighter window to be executed.
        
        
      • [-] Blood Kain combos are just about the same. Cooldown after activation extended.
        
      • [-] Dead Spike has further horizontal knockback on air hit.
        
      • [-] Tsuika (214A -> 214D) does not break primers anymore.
        
      • [-] Keri Age (214B -> 214D) does not break primers anymore.
        

      *As more changes are confirmed, they will be added to the list.

      BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend: Location Test #1 - [8/11/2011 - 8/16/2011]

      [*][+] Carnage Scissors is now projectile invincible.

      [*][+] j.C has a better vertical hitbox (improved on the lower side, now better for covering jump ins).

      [*][+] 6D now floats on hit. [For example: 6D (opponent bounces up) > j.D whiff > 5B > 5D(1) > DS now possible]

      [*][+] 6C untech time increased.

      [*][-] Blood Kain's cooldown has been extended (Heat gains at a reduced rate during BK).

      [*][+] 6B now causes down on air hit (can be followed up after, probably with 2B, 5C or 22C). Cannot be emergency teched on air hit.

      [*][-] Hell's Fang heat gain has been decreased.

      BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend: Location Test #2 - [8/25/2011 - 9/1/2011]

      [*][+] 6B knockback decreased.

      [*][+] Tsuika's hitstun slightly reduced, but noted to be easier to enforce oki after now.

      [*][+] Forward/Back Throw can both be special canceled.

      [*][+] 5B and 5C do more damage.

      BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend: Location Test #3 - [9/17/2011]

      [*][+] Back throw damage increased to 1400. Now wall bounds in corner.

Edited January 31, 2012 by KayEff

[KayEff]

i'll start things off

j.D seems to have more untechable, it seems like

if belial edge works off of j.D after using forward throw AND gauntlet hades, that should mean something

[MashThat5A]

I think 2D got faster, because 3C, 2D connects now. That's really freaking nice for when you hit a random 3C.

I noticed the j.D thing too. If it also has better prorate, then hooray for more life steal/damage during BnBs

[KayEff]

yeah they've definitely changed hell's fang proration, and i'm going to assume damage values for hell's fang and its followup are the same

i mean if you can get 2.8k off of 2B 5B 5C 214A 214D

EDIT: my bad that combo was done in negative penalty

Edited October 8, 2011 by KayEff

[KayEff]

another thing i noticed is that they didn't seem to change hell's fang heat gain

still gets 3 then 7-8 heat, just like in CS2

[MashThat5A]

another thing i noticed is that they didn't seem to change hell's fang heat gain

still gets 3 then 7-8 heat, just like in CS2

I guess with the Blood Kain cooldown nerf they felt it was unnecessary.

[ADS627]

yeah i just noticed the heat thing in the match vs dora.

what about "[+] Tsuika's hitstun slightly reduced, but noted to be easier to enforce oki after now." Looked like he was able to jump the gun pretty fast after it. But it may just be an over concentration on that making something normal look different on my part.

[Tong]

I think Tsuika really improved, you can now reinforce better oki and prevent/punish out-of-the-corner rolls.

[advancedNoob]

Why is longer BK a nerf? If we lose the same amount of health, but BK lasts longer then it's definitely a buff...

[Tong]

Why is longer BK a nerf? If we lose the same amount of health, but BK lasts longer then it's definitely a buff...

It is not longer. Heat cooldown = period where heat gain is shitty.

[advancedNoob]

Ah, makes sense then.

[Beautiful Death]

I think 2D got faster, because 3C, 2D connects now. That's really freaking nice for when you hit a random 3C.

I noticed the j.D thing too. If it also has better prorate, then hooray for more life steal/damage during BnBs

I'm pretty sure you could always do that. Dunno WHY you would do that, but you could.

[MashThat5A]

No, if you do 3C, 2D it blue beats. And you do it for the 2D/TK GH/cross-up DID mix-up.

[LuminAbyss]

3C > 2D would always connect, but it would just force emergency tech. Instead now, it gives you hard knockdown, which is really nice.

I'm really glad they kept Hell's Fang's heat gain the same, Ragna really really needed it.

I really wanna know if they improved Keri Age at all this time around, all we know about Gauntlet Hades was the window to follow up with it is just tighter Implying it wasn't already kinda tight before.

EDIT: Nevermind, I was thinking CH 3C

Edited October 8, 2011 by LuminAbyss

[Beautiful Death]

Whoops 3C 2D was in CS1 and CT my bad

[Tong]

Gais, I think 6B got slower.

On the previous versions, 6C 6B was pretty easy, in CSEX people are struggling to get it right. Plus, 6C has MORE untechable which by logic should make 6B even easier... but no, it is harder.

enjoy your new overhead :D

[LuminAbyss]

I'm going to just wait till we get a mook or something, it seriously doesn't look any different.

Also, Keri Age confirmed for not breaking a primer anymore on block. /sigh

[-Seo]

6C untech time increase hasn't been confirmed as a final change yet, and I've only seen one person go for 6C > 6B so far (which they did, to be fair, miss). I think it's still up in the air whether or not 6B is in fact, slower.

Personally, it looks the same to me.

[JETROCKETSKATES]

[Tong]

It IS slower people, dont try to negate. Let's live with this senseless nerf for the rest of CSEX or for god knows how long...

[LuminAbyss]

If it's slower, it's by 1 or 2 frames or something, because seriously, it doesn't LOOK different. And it's still been hitting. Ya gotta stay positive, Tong~ Besides, I've been getting more hits off GH than 6B as far as overhead combos go.

@Seo: Nice catch, I forgot 6C untech time wasn't confirmed, so it easily just might have not made it to the final product.

Can someone confirm for me whether Tsuika still breaks a primer or not? I know Keri Age doesn't, but I'm seriously going to be sad if Deadspike is our only primer breaking move.

[VR-Raiden]

Calm down, it's not like anyone did 6C > 6B before now, why couldn't it just be unfamiliarity with the timing of that combo that people are missing it? I still think it's the same. For all our sakes I hope it is the same.

[LuminAbyss]

Either way, it wasn't like our mix-up was amazing with 24 frame 6B. Footies and punishes are how Ragna gets most of his hits~

[-Seo]

Can someone confirm for me whether Tsuika still breaks a primer or not? I know Keri Age doesn't, but I'm seriously going to be sad if Deadspike is our only primer breaking move.

There's still ground DID that breaks primers (I don't think this has been removed?). Works great for breaking that last primer when you have meter to rapid it.

[SolheartStud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxFHv-_MF-M

@ 7:15

2D definetly looks faster, at least start-up wise but this could just be me.

@ 8:00

Delicious combo and shows a nice demonstration on how you can pick the opponent up with 6B.