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Akira-Shiro

[CSE] Carl Changes and Discussion Thread

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By your own logic though, The entire cast is ass because the entire cast's gimicks/mix ups/resets/tactics/everything can in theory be seen through, counter measures can be taken, damage can be avoided, etc.

To be perfectly frank i Feel you've made this conclusion for yourself and only look for evidence to support it. Anything you see to the contrary you dismiss as 'shinanigans' or 'well that person doesn't know what they're doing.'

Always keep in mind that people you play with, especially regularly, know how you play and despite our best efforts, we all can fall into pits of doing things formulaicly. When iI use certain tricks against people who play me all the time, they learn to block them and I have to resort to doing weird stuff I don't normally do comfortably. When I play people who are not familer with my Usual MO, I do better, though yes I'm certainly out matched by some people. In any fighter, knowing how to handle your match up is going to drastically enhance your odds of winning, and falling into pits of predictability are going to greatly increase your chance of losing. Further more, even the most machine like players can make mistakes. That's all part of the game. It's not fair for you to say that -any- character is ass just because there's a way to get out of their tricks. Every character shares this factor. It's shallow and it's bugging me. I think you're a very competent and skilled player. Probably more so than I am. However, this line of thinking just needs to stop, the overflowing negativity is just painful, and isn't serving any purpose. It dose nothing to support the community or raise the general knowledge base.

Sure, people can jump out, they can DP-mash, use DD's whatever, but that doesn't discount the fact that carl's mix up is notably stronger than the majority of the cast, he gets more reset opportunity than most of the cast, his Oki is strong and he has a fairly safe keep-away game.

Technically you can beat out Valkenhyne's Wolf gimmicks with mashing but that doesn't make it any less of a pain for everyone to deal with. you can take your 'solid paper' calculations to the grave with you but carl is still a perfectly viable and even sometimes a powerful character.

Kay. Done with my temper tantrum.

Edit: Btw i've noticed that carl seems to be getting longer combos off his throws in these videos.

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If you think he's ass in CSE, just watch Ryuusei (not even the highest PSR Carl) take down some monstrous players:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg9yTgft0aU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL#t=8m34s

Relus:He was free as hell to carls IAD J2c,, and lost the fight because of it. He played correctly vs carls wake up options. He also failed to bait that obvious burst when he got a fatal. He also wasnt capitalizing on his hitconferms. In truth i dont think he is Monstrous player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_pC1t7zp0&feature=bf_next&list=ULSyE0oBZKZKM&lf=mfu_in_order

Tager: He played his defensive options correctly, IB to get heat then CA when given the opprotunity. He failed however to block alot of IAD faint 2a which ultimately cost him the round.. Also he didnt use a single grab setup which leads me to believe him as a tager player is lacking in offensive skill by alot. Because i could have setup for alot of tager things, the option was there. He failed to take advantage of the only thing tager is good at gimmicks that take 4k. I wouldnt consider him monstrous either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdAH6MoL7SA&feature=bf_next&list=ULxX_pC1t7zp0&lf=mfu_in_order#t=7m36s

Blue Noel: He was free as hell,, no if ands or buts about it. I havnt been focusing to much on noel in CSE but in CS2 noel COULD mash 2D in the middle of carls combos and actually make carl whiff if you were to attack. The only way to bait it would be with Ada, but this is CSE and im 100% sure they must have changed the inv properties around on her drives. But even still he mashed D to much, he did however have a very good zonning skill. He failed because of his lack in blocking he obviously isnt anywhere near Monstrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I-hIlJ78-0&feature=bf_next&list=ULIdAH6MoL7SA&lf=mfu_in_order#t=2m26s

Purple Noel: He was actually the best out of the 4, he was able to effectively hitconferm to optimize his dmg. However he does what i do,, he tried to rtsd to hard vs carl. And he paid the price for it, he also did JD one to many times. Im not sure wats with the noel players today but im assuming mashing D vs carl is no longer legit... even tho it should have never been legit.

Unfortunately this did nothing but further prove my point that people respect carl to much, when you are wedged in between carl & Ada. He only has 2 options, Lock you down with air tight blockstrings, or setuo for mixup. In no way shape of form can he do both except for his 3D/JB reset,, which is no longer an option of any hitconferm. Carl was also only Atier because of his 3D/JB reset... so without it how is he gonna still be A. Like seriously think about it, our reset was godlike. It was 100% safe, it could be done off almost any hitconferm. The game could be decided off of one hit by carl, yet we only made A tier... hmm well that must mean out side of the reset we are shit tier.. Cause guess what, we are =/ Its hard to believe of except but it is the truth,, with the few buffs they are giving us. It is getting us 1 step closer to a being a solid character. So i am still very excited for CSE carl, i just dont want yall to be surprised when we are B tier. Cause last i checked gimmicks arnt legit, if they were tager would be A tier.

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Stuff

I almost don't want to respond since most most of what you said is just wrong but I'll try.

Firstly I was responding to your last few posts not the content of the OP. I said lockdown OR mixup not lockdown while doing mixup, which is also still possible. You can switch between lows and overheads while they're in hitstun. Carl's 1 safe UB is the only one he needs. The others should only be used to setup his 3D/j.B UB. No it's not impossible to UB someone while they're in hitstun. 5B>2B>6B-2D can't be jumped/mashed out of if timed correctly.

It's not always viable but if you know they're going to jump out, vivace before 2D instead and you'll more than likely still hit. If they're mashing out then use frame traps. It's not that hard and please don't say it's not possible.

I play against the best XBL players as well and I can tell you for certain that if I lose it's because they're BETTER than me, NOT because of my character, who is still high tier in CS2. If using Carl was useless once they know the matchup then he would be low tier.

I never said anything was absolute.

If you're saying Ryuusei only won because he's good then again you're blatantly wrong. R1 (I'm pretty sure was the last Noel) is arguably the best Noel in the world and he beat him. And he's not the best Carl (as far as PSR at least). I'm pretty positive R1 knows the matchup and how to play it.

Carl isn't ass, regardless of how many times you say it.

*More Stuff*...

Unfortunately this did nothing but further prove my point that people respect carl to much, when you are wedged in between carl & Ada. He only has 2 options, Lock you down with air tight blockstrings, or setuo for mixup. In no way shape of form can he do both except for his 3D/JB reset,, which is no longer an option of any hitconferm. Carl was also only Atier because of his 3D/JB reset... so without it how is he gonna still be A. Like seriously think about it, our reset was godlike. It was 100% safe, it could be done off almost any hitconferm. The game could be decided off of one hit by carl, yet we only made A tier... hmm well that must mean out side of the reset we are shit tier.. Cause guess what, we are =/ Its hard to believe of except but it is the truth,, with the few buffs they are giving us. It is getting us 1 step closer to a being a solid character. So i am still very excited for CSE carl, i just dont want yall to be surprised when we are B tier. Cause last i checked gimmicks arnt legit, if they were tager would be A tier.

I'm skipping you're analysis since I found it a bit ridiculous. Yes when a player loses it's generally because they made a few mistakes. You're exaggerating them quite a bit though.

But you're basically saying Carl is low tier because he needs to gain momentum in a match to really shine. That doesn't make him bad.

The only reason Carl's j.B/3D reset was needed for him to be A-tier was because of how fast Nirvana meter went out. This isn't a problem any longer in CSE and his resets and UBs outside of that are still unmatched. He still has the all important KD on j.C and 3D is still good oki. That along with his slight increase in damage output makes him a solid character I think. Obviously I haven't played him so this is just from what I've seen.

And I don't care if he's B-tier. B-tier isn't "ass"

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By your own logic though, The entire cast is ass because the entire cast's gimicks/mix ups/resets/tactics/everything can in theory be seen through, counter measures can be taken, damage can be avoided, etc.

To be perfectly frank i Feel you've made this conclusion for yourself and only look for evidence to support it. Anything you see to the contrary you dismiss as 'shinanigans' or 'well that person doesn't know what they're doing.'

Always keep in mind that people you play with, especially regularly, know how you play and despite our best efforts, we all can fall into pits of doing things formulaicly. When iI use certain tricks against people who play me all the time, they learn to block them and I have to resort to doing weird stuff I don't normally do comfortably. When I play people who are not familer with my Usual MO, I do better, though yes I'm certainly out matched by some people. In any fighter, knowing how to handle your match up is going to drastically enhance your odds of winning, and falling into pits of predictability are going to greatly increase your chance of losing. Further more, even the most machine like players can make mistakes. That's all part of the game. It's not fair for you to say that -any- character is ass just because there's a way to get out of their tricks. Every character shares this factor. It's shallow and it's bugging me. I think you're a very competent and skilled player. Probably more so than I am. However, this line of thinking just needs to stop, the overflowing negativity is just painful, and isn't serving any purpose. It dose nothing to support the community or raise the general knowledge base.

Sure, people can jump out, they can DP-mash, use DD's whatever, but that doesn't discount the fact that carl's mix up is notably stronger than the majority of the cast, he gets more reset opportunity than most of the cast, his Oki is strong and he has a fairly safe keep-away game.

Technically you can beat out Valkenhyne's Wolf gimmicks with mashing but that doesn't make it any less of a pain for everyone to deal with. you can take your 'solid paper' calculations to the grave with you but carl is still a perfectly viable and even sometimes a powerful character.

Kay. Done with my temper tantrum.

Edit: Btw i've noticed that carl seems to be getting longer combos off his throws in these videos.

No i do not, no other character in the cast is in there respective tier because of how godlike there mixup is. They are all good because of how there characters are played. Makoto S tier not because of her damage, cause her midscreen damage was @ss. She was high tier because she was solid, she had her Parry which was godlike and could stop majority of the full proof things in this game IE litchi's corner oki Daisharin. He range was decent & her hitbox alowed her to fall out of alot of universay combos. Not only that she had her amazing frame traps.

Hazama eveything he did was safe, anything he could possible come up with was almost always guaranteed to be 100% safe. No character had the ability to punish him, and off of that 100% safe BS he was able to get massive damage on any hitconferm with 50 heat. That is a very powerfull tool, not only that but locking him down is impossible, zoning him is impossible, out spacing him is impossible YOU WILL ALWAYS LOSE.

Noel her pressure is amazing her 3c made sure of it. She was right up there with makoto in terms of frame traps, and her ability to hitconferm into massive damage was almost as godlike as hazamas the only difference was that she did not require heat to do so. Her ability to stop people from zoning her is also a very powerfull tool. Sure she cannot zone you back, but she cannot be zoned either. An if you were to ever get hit by her anti zoning tool you, thanks to her running speed by the time you tech she will be up in your face.

Now i have no intention of going over the reason for every character.

Carl is easy to zone & space, in fact that is the way people are advised to play him (Just like taget) because it is hard for him to stop you. It takes alot of ada meter for carl to catch a person. An at the same time you are putting your neck out on the line trying to catch someone so if they have a tool that goes pass ada (Jins 2D, Noels 236a/b/c, or Lambdas 4D) you will be the one taking damage while trying to catch someone. An even if you dont take damage you still come out short because adas hp is low from trying to catch them. We dont have good aerial hitconferm, we got jc.... unless ada is behind the enemy when you hit them we have no hitconferm.

"However on wakeup we can cross them up" GIMMICK!!!!!!

"Well when we finally get them blocking we can do a UB setup" GIMMICK

"Well if they start pressuring us we can always couterassault"... oh wait we better not be barrier guarding because if we are our CA will whiff CAUSE WE GOT THE CRAPPYEST ONE IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!

"Well if we IB we can always DD out".. TO BAD WE AINT GOT INV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Well wat about our ablility to lock people down" Sure to bad WE AINT GOT MIXUP WHILE WE DOING IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now if there is anything i missed please let me know now >=/ so i can shoot that down too.

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I almost don't want to respond since most most of what you said is just wrong but I'll try.

Firstly I was responding to your last few posts not the content of the OP. I said lockdown OR mixup not lockdown while doing mixup, which is also still possible. You can switch between lows and overheads while they're in hitstun. Carl's 1 safe UB is the only one he needs. The others should only be used to setup his 3D/j.B UB. No it's not impossible to UB someone while they're in hitstun. 5B>2B>6B-2D can't be jumped/mashed out of if timed correctly.

It's not always viable but if you know they're going to jump out, vivace before 2D instead and you'll more than likely still hit. If they're mashing out then use frame traps. It's not that hard and please don't say it's not possible.

I play against the best XBL players as well and I can tell you for certain that if I lose it's because they're BETTER than me, NOT because of my character, who is still high tier in CS2. If using Carl was useless once they know the matchup then he would be low tier.

I never said anything was absolute.

If you're saying Ryuusei only won because he's good then again you're blatantly wrong. R1 is arguable the best Noel in the world and he beat him. And he's not the best Carl (as far as PSR at least). I'm pretty positive R1 knows the matchup and how to play it.

Carl isn't ass, regardless of how many times you say it.

I'm skipping you're analysis since I found it a bit ridiculous. Yes when a player loses it's generally because they made a few mistakes. You're exaggerating them quite a bit though.

But you're basically saying Carl is low tier because he needs to gain momentum in a match to really shine. That doesn't make him bad.

The only reason Carl's j.B/3D reset was needed for him to be A-tier was because of how fast Nirvana meter went out. This isn't a problem any longer in CSE and his resets and UBs outside of that are still unmatched. He still has the all important KD on j.C and 3D is still good oki. That along with his slight increase in damage output makes him a solid character I think. Obviously I haven't played him so this is just from what I've seen.

And I don't care if he's B-tier. B-tier isn't "ass"

Just so you know buppa trolls and plays under the tag R1 when playing noel,, and that couldnt have been R1 he doent play that shitty,unless he needs to brush up his skills. An everything i have said up untill now is if you play carl without the UB reset (CSE). An if you think you can do and overhead and be safe your wrong, Carls OH is neutral on block which means every character in the game can 2a him on IB. LMAO insorry what character are you playing carl cannot swich between highs & lows while in hitstun. First off our moves dont ever have enough hit stun to do what your saying, ada is the only one with a actual OH, ours is the slowest OH in the game an its also neutral on block & at the same time it cannot be gatteled into another move intruth if you IB our OH & grab we cannot stop you. I mean yea you can jump.. but thats not stopping you it will still happen. An after the OH you just used while they were in hitstun from and Ada attack. You are 100% open to pressure, ada is still in recovery & right now ur -3... sound like a shit OH to me. So we are back to Ada lol Her OH is even slower then yours so we gotta make sure we do a low while they are about to block her OH.. lol then they enemy says fuck both of you & jumps :psyduck: oh shit they can do that cant they. So please tell me what godlike blockstrings are you doing where you seem to be able to do a OH mid blocktring & you are not -3 from doing your manual OH lol please id like to kno

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Just so you know buppa trolls and plays under the tag R1 when playing noel,, and that couldnt have been R1 he doent play that shitty,unless he needs to brush up his skills. An everything i have said up untill now is if you play carl without the UB reset (CSE). An if you think you can do and overhead and be safe your wrong, Carls OH is neutral on block which means every character in the game can 2a him on IB. LMAO insorry what character are you playing carl cannot swich between highs & lows while in hitstun. First off our moves dont ever have enough hit stun to do what your saying, ada is the only one with a actual OH, ours is the slowest OH in the game an its also neutral on block & at the same time it cannot be gatteled into another move intruth if you IB our OH & grab we cannot stop you. I mean yea you can jump.. but thats not stopping you it will still happen. An after the OH you just used while they were in hitstun from and Ada attack. You are 100% open to pressure, ada is still in recovery & right now ur -3... sound like a shit OH to me. So we are back to Ada lol Her OH is even slower then yours so we gotta make sure we do a low while they are about to block her OH.. lol then they enemy says fuck both of you & jumps :psyduck: oh shit they can do that cant they.

I know about Buppa/R-1's name trade but a couple of people made the comment that that was R-1 playing. Regardless it was a great Noel and again you keep saying blatantly false things. You think that Noel was shitty? Post a video of you and I'm sure I'd laugh. Carl and Nirvana go together. I obviously didn't mean you could put them in hitstun and overhead with Carl alone. No idea why you would assume that. Carl's 6C being neutral on block doesn't make his mixup bad. His strength lies in being able to cross-up and do lows and highs at the same time. Again if you can't do it then that's because you don't play well, not because it's not possible.

Yes your moves do have enough hitstun to do what I'm saying. I've done it myself. I've seen other Carls do it, both Japanese and Amercan. YES it works against good players who know the match-up. You keep pointing out specific things like 2D being slow. You think you're supposed to be able to mixup people with 2D alone? No, you use it in junction with vivace, Carl's normals, ect.

If you still don't understand how to punish jumpouts and mashing then read my previous posts, as I'm done responding.

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Also everything iv said so far is tru,, what do you think the purpose of us get that new fuaco. It was so our stuff would be more legit, on KD people always did fuaco viv-A this would work if they neutral tech,, but since fuaco has a crap long startup & carl likes to scream the name of the attack he is doing before he does it. People would just wait till carl made ada attack and react accordingly. Now however they are forced to neutral tech, if we do fuaco we still have the ability to hitconferm it into good dmg and if you do not neutral delay your neutral tech it will happen again. This in tern keeps people from trying to run away, Arks is making us more into a legit character, an i like it. Btier or not if we are a legit character im ok with it.

[Edit]

Almost forot, iv taught people how to safe mash there way out of all of carls stuff. So i guess ill teach you to.

First off screw carl, ignore his ass compleately. Just block low, because his OH is sum shit anyway. I do not mean literally cause his OH is still a Oh regardless of how crappy he is.

While blocking carl always keep your earls & eyes pealed on Ada. If she is about to do her OH look at carl. Because you know he is about to do a low(common since) If he did something like 2a 5a 2a 5a 5b (Pause) 2D just jump. Because of the pause carl cannot activate the gattling ability & he is forced to wait for the recovery to be finished. Before he does a low, this is when you jump. If he is hitting you & ada is still bringing her fist down, you can Dp/DD/Jump this because when carl does this form of UB he needs to delay his 6B during that delay you jump. Or hit him with a DD/Dp.

Now for the UB you just said, iv taught my friends if carl does vivace while ada is in the startup of any move... ,ash the fuck out of grab. For in this situation carl is using vivace. Regarless of the distance he will ALWAYS come closer to you, and Vivace he can be grabed out of which will give you free damage & stop ada simultaneously.

If you follow those rules you cannot be hit by any crossup or UB setup.

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Getting hit is part of the game, otherwise every pro match would end with a Draw or be incredibly long since said "Pros" know and can see "through everthing".

That's was makes everthing interesting.

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I know about Buppa/R-1's name trade but a couple of people made the comment that that was R-1 playing. Regardless it was a great Noel and again you keep saying blatantly false things. You think that Noel was shitty? Post a video of you and I'm sure I'd laugh. Carl and Nirvana go together. I obviously didn't mean you could put them in hitstun and overhead with Carl alone. No idea why you would assume that. Carl's 6C being neutral on block doesn't make his mixup bad. His strength lies in being able to cross-up and do lows and highs at the same time. Again if you can't do it then that's because you don't play well, not because it's not possible.

Yes your moves do have enough hitstun to do what I'm saying. I've done it myself. I've seen other Carls do it, both Japanese and Amercan. YES it works against good players who know the match-up. You keep pointing out specific things like 2D being slow. You think you're supposed to be able to mixup people with 2D alone? No, you use it in junction with vivace, Carl's normals, ect.

If you still don't understand how to punish jumpouts and mashing then read my previous posts, as I'm done responding.

Obviously your the one who does not understand, An im not to sure when you THINK i said noel was shitty. But noel is an amazing character, however i do not think that the noel players were good. An i also never said his mixup is bad carl has the best mixup in the game. I never said he didnt, i said him as a character was shity. I think it is you who needs to go back a re-read the post my friend because obviously your eyes have selective reading, because your putting words in my mouth.. also Lol stay salty

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If you wana see me play, go to SRZ video page he has the most recent video of me using carl... Since i barely use his ass cause i hate the way he is played in CS2

[Edit] Nvm found both of them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8QGIjR0FpA&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZi9ozH-zZQ&feature=channel_video_title

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I said I was done but I just have to:

Obviously your the one who does not understand, An im not to sure when you THINK i said noel was shitty

that couldnt have been R1 he doent play that shitty

And before you say I said Noel as a character is shitty READ what I said.

An i also never said his mixup is bad carl has the best mixup in the game

All of our other UB setups are either mash vulnerable or 7 8 & 9 vulnerable how do you intend on doing this 'Godlike mixup you speak of.'

His UBs are part of his mixup fyi. I guess I can't expect you to read my posts if you don't even read your own

And for your videos, you're better than I was expecting and I'm not saying I'm any better, but you were no where near the level of the players you were critiquing, which was the point I was making.

Also I can see why you would have problems landing UBs. The one's you're doing could be executed better, and you're not using any setups for the 3D/j.B UB.

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I said I was done but I just have to:

And before you say I said Noel as a character is shitty READ what I said.

His UBs are part of his mixup fyi. I guess I can't expect you to read my posts if you don't even read your own

And for your videos, you're better than I was expecting and I'm not saying I'm any better, but you were no where near the level of the players you were critiquing, which was the point I was making.

Also I can see why you would have problems landing UBs. The one's you're doing could be executed better, and you're not using any setups for the 3D/j.B UB.

Lol ok i see the issue, both noels are the same person. But yea, if you look at that fight the purple noel could have done better. Im not sure if its cause he has not gotten use to the new noel or not. But iv seen R1 play,, he would never do a random JD like both of this noel & "HOPE" it actually hits. An ever R1 himself would probably agree that was shitty play on his part. He was dropping combos all over the place, and if you look at this @ 9:15 he did not barrier guard fuacco and he lost his primer, which also costed him the round. If you dont think that was a srub thing to do >.> when he clearly had 100% of his barrier remaining. Then im not sure i wana consider what your version of "pro" is. Becauce even the pros have bad days,, an i think this is one of R1s cause man lol @ 9:15 he just got his guard broken LMAO. Its like... the carl aint even do no crossup to surprise him or nuffin. EMPTY FUACCO!!!!!!!!!!!! and R1 just aite it. Once i saw that im like,, ok so is he truly that free. But watever, everyone has there own opinon. Im sorry,,, R1 was very godlike in both of these videos & lost because carl is such a solid character. I apologise, i dont know what came over me lol.

An like i said, in CT i learned the clap loop in the begining of the game then i i stopped using it cause it was BS same for CS2. I learned it, then stopped. So yea anytime i try it, i usually fail. The Ja ja(3D) part always gets me cause of the timing of the first ja after j2c. Never bothered trying to perfect it cause i dont actually use it. I also dont do to many UB setups, i use crossups way more cause i get more damage the only UB i use it the one that i did with 2D vivace-a 2a. If you use 2B instead it becomes an actual UB. But they get knocked into the air & eat 2B for some reason, so i don use it cause u cant really do a good combo from that.

Lol an ur right about that last part i did say that,, but allow me to clarify. If you try to BLOCK carl, u messed up. Cause its almost impossible to block our stuff, but if they dont try to block then it becomes a problem they can get out. So in a sense, it is very shitty. But still remains godlike all the same.

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You lied,, both of these noels are not R1,, in the comments it clearly said Neru(Noel) vs Ryuusei(carl)

An unless im blind it says R1s new tag is Naruhodo kun

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I didn't really want to get involved with this debate since I'm probably the scrubbiest Carl in the forum and I definitely don't know anything technical about Carl/the game in general (frame data, for example), BUT, I kind of agree with Akira when he says that Carl has to rely on gimmicks/UB to get damage. I don't count crossups as his mixup game because they aren't the same, IMO. Also, I believe that crossups are a form of gimmick. Carl has no real mixup from my perspective. Everything he does just kind of leads into an UB setup or a crossup.

That said, I don't think Carl is bad. I don't even think he's bad without his UBs. I think the reason he seems bad is because we're comparing him to other, more traditional, playstyles. Carl is a puppet/shadow character, you can't really compare them to "normal" characters like Ragna, Jin, Noel, etc. You kind of just accept them the way they are. Like for example, take Hakumen; I'd argue that he has really bad mixup and no real gimmicks, but you're not supposed to be thinking about that when you're playing him. He's a counter/turtling type of character, you wait n' bait pretty much.

I personally don't like to use that 3D jB UB setup since I think it's kind of cheap, but my friends that I play with think I should use more Carl gimmicks when I play them since that's what makes someone "good". My point is, even though we rely on that kind of stuff to win, people expect us to use all of the tools available, even if it is gimmicky (and unfair in this case, imo). Plus, B-tier is pretty good, at least people can't complain we're tier whoring or something lol.

Anyways, I don't want to say too much, lest I say something dumb (unless I already have D: ). I just wanted to give my 2 cents.

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I don't count crossups as his mixup game because they aren't the same, IMO. Also, I believe that crossups are a form of gimmick.

Just wondering, could you elaborate why you don't count it as mix-up? I've always felt that mix-up included cross-ups as well as high-low situations and throws (or do you feel that Carl's cross-up tricks aren't as solid as other characters' mix-up games).

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Just wondering, could you elaborate why you don't count it as mix-up? I've always felt that mix-up included cross-ups as well as high-low situations and throws (or do you feel that Carl's cross-up tricks aren't as solid as other characters' mix-up games).

I always just counted them as two distinct things. That's just how I learned the terms from other people. Like, I was told that mixup is like high/low situations, including throws. UB setups don't count as mixup to me since you're not really trying to mixup your opponent, you're trying to put them in a situation that makes it impossible to block. Carl's crossup options are gimmicky to me because he has tools that are pretty much there for that specific purpose (Vivace), other characters don't really have that. Other than that, there's no real reason beyond "this is how I was taught" lol.

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NIGGAS GET HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO carl combos (If yall havnt noticed) have gone up in rating which means we get longer combos. Cause this was sum bullshit to be honest if you were to try the 4D combo from a 6C starter... >.<" the combo would drop. So now we can actually be creative about alot of our combos and still get pretty good damage ^-^ yay us

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^^^^^^^^^^^^ Didn't you point that out to us already?

*is confused*

I thought that was already found out by you or toasty

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Lol its more then a damage buff,, its.. Hmm its hard to explain for those who do not know wat combo rating is, well nvm ill try without using any fancy . Combo rating is a way you would estimate a characters damage potential. Lets say Tager who has a damage rating of 40% if he were to get a fatal & do his DD directly after he would not be able to get much damage after the DD maybe around an extra 2-3k after the DD. As for Lambda who has a damage rating of 85% could get a fatal & do into her DD and dish our an extra 5-6k dmg. Meaning lambda has a higher damage potential because off of a none fatal if tager did his DD then tried to combo then the combo would probably drop. Where as Lambda can do almost any random hit into her DD & still be able to do about an extra 4k damage after the DD. But this rule applies to all combos regardless of them having a DD done in them or not. The higher the combo rating the higher the damage potential that character has & in CS2 Carl has 80% >.> not to great actually considering the P2 values on alot of our moves. This is the innitial reason you no longer see our extra long combos anymore, cause even if you were to try they would probably drop IE *Hitconferm>2D>volante combo>4D>4Dcombo* it would drop almost right after the 4D because our combo is droping in hitstun to fast. What controles the hitstun,, our combo rating & P1/P2 values on our moves.

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Yeah I had noticed this too. Like when i mentioned, after being generally a grump face, that carl's post-throw combos were much longer than CS2. I'm quite glad about this in general. Yay for more damage potential <3

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You must see this Carl, i think that is Ranrero:

http://ja.twitch.tv/nsb1/b/301555562

Carl, now is Looking strong. After the CS2 UB you can go directly to a 4k or maybe more dmg combo. And! we can do 5K combos after a cantabille if we have metter, not bad.

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