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Akira-Shiro

[CSE] Carl Changes and Discussion Thread

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Im going to really miss Glide throw mixup. Especially now that in CS2 im using it more for doing high and low stuff.

I hope that in the future Carl will get some new thing, that let him doing something similar to that. I like Sex Carl, but still i don't like the new 2]D[.

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Hmm do you have access to EX,, an by that i mean is it one of them close to you.

the arcade i go to got it if thats what you mean

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weeee played some EX carl

do I just suck or does Carl's zoning game seem to have gotten worse?

between 4D not breaking primers anymore (no fear of blocking) and Nirvana taking forever to start recovering + nerfed recover speed, it doesnt seem like she should be sent out there to poke your opponent anymore. Everytime I poke someone with 4D/6D/623D she loses half her life XD

combos are still fun so its all good tho =)

also ironic how I quit Carl in CS2 because of unblockables, and now I'm trying to learn how to do unblockables with the 623C RC setup lol

EX carl, imo, is a mixture of CT + CS1. Carl is back to his CS1 ways with all the stuff he can employ without having to exploit a loop. EX nirvana is like CT nirvana. She has a lot of meter to use, but she starts recharging slowly and she also takes forever to recharge. So you have to be careful using her as a meat shield, and you can't zone too freely.

4D not breaking a primer made me somewhat happy, lol I'll explain. As platinum having my primer broken by 4D, especially considering that it had super armor was really annoying. Ofcourse I would love to have all that as a carl player, but playing against carl, when I'm not using carl, showed me a different perspective. So I can understand why they took out the guard breaking property.

Unblockable off 623C RC!?!?!? Please do tell.

Im going to really miss Glide throw mixup. Especially now that in CS2 im using it more for doing high and low stuff.

I hope that in the future Carl will get some new thing, that let him doing something similar to that. I like Sex Carl, but still i don't like the new 2]D[.

Kara fall was broken and I'm happy it was taken out. I played plat in CS2, and I had multiple matches with Zong. I didn't realize how dumb his kara fall was all this time because I had been using carl myself up until CS2. Trying to anti-air Zong's carl with plat only for my 6A/2C to whiff because of kara-fall and for him to hitconfirm into loop was the most annoying thing ever. Same goes for litchi.

Taking kara-fall out for all characters was a good thing. It gave them too much of an advantage.

I don't see how the new 2D is as bad as you say it is. The added distance they travel doesn't really change much. If anything, the new 2D is great, because since bounce further away, we can use fuoco and 5C to force neutral tech and go for a high or low after a 2D loop. This wouldn't have been possible with the old 2D as they would bounce too close to her, and your opponent would tech roll through her during fuoco startup.

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EX carl, imo, is a mixture of CT + CS1. Carl is back to his CS1 ways with all the stuff he can employ without having to exploit a loop. EX nirvana is like CT nirvana. She has a lot of meter to use, but she starts recharging slowly and she also takes forever to recharge. So you have to be careful using her as a meat shield, and you can't zone too freely.

4D not breaking a primer made me somewhat happy, lol I'll explain. As platinum having my primer broken by 4D, especially considering that it had super armor was really annoying. Ofcourse I would love to have all that as a carl player, but playing against carl, when I'm not using carl, showed me a different perspective. So I can understand why they took out the guard breaking property.

Unblockable off 623C RC!?!?!? Please do tell.

yea carl feels about that way, lots of sandwich since nirvana has high health but low recovery and not stupidly exploiting a loop. i love it =)

Zoning wise, for me something doesn't feel right. I usually zone with a mixture of 623D, 8D, 6D, and 4D (if someone else uses something different, please do tell). while 623D and 8D controls the air pretty well sa before, her ground zoning...maybe more like poking... feels lacking now. With her super slow recovery and still taking chunks of damage, if you use 4D/6D to poke, she can lose a lot of life... especially if you're trying to zone like tager or something. between losing both the ability to use nirvana as a meat shield from slow recovery and 4D not even worth it to throw out there (unlikely you'll combo off a full screen hit? lol) you might as well keep her in front of you just for 623D and 8D.

If 4D broke primers, i'd still be happy to trade like 30-50% of nirvanas health for it and put her up, but now i dont get anything but losing her life.

On the other hand, 4D during pressure to break primers was retarded, which is probably why they took it out... not so much the zoning perspective lol.

I posted a combo vid a while back which seems pretty complete... had 2 unblockable setups off 2A 5B 6B 623C RC... too lazy to find the link but I think the name was "Infinite Crisis".

basically its...

2A 5B 6B 22D 623C RC iad j2c allecan 5b 5c(jump) 3D airdash jB jA jB (or jA jB jA? cant remember) j2C jA jA jB+3D... something along these lines

tall character variation was something like

2A 5B 6B 22D 623C RC iad j2c allecan 5b 5c(jump) 8D airdash jA jA jA jA jA (forgot how many) jB3D

Which is fair, since it costs 50% meter.

and of course, tager still gets unblockabled for free lol although i think the matchup got a lot better for tager now than ever.

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yea carl feels about that way, lots of sandwich since nirvana has high health but low recovery and not stupidly exploiting a loop. i love it =)

Zoning wise, for me something doesn't feel right. I usually zone with a mixture of 623D, 8D, 6D, and 4D (if someone else uses something different, please do tell). while 623D and 8D controls the air pretty well sa before, her ground zoning...maybe more like poking... feels lacking now. With her super slow recovery and still taking chunks of damage, if you use 4D/6D to poke, she can lose a lot of life... especially if you're trying to zone like tager or something. between losing both the ability to use nirvana as a meat shield from slow recovery and 4D not even worth it to throw out there (unlikely you'll combo off a full screen hit? lol) you might as well keep her in front of you just for 623D and 8D.

I felt the same way too when I played carl in CS2 for the first time last week. I know she has less meter than EX, but I couldn't really utilize 6D/4D for zoning like I could in CS1. When blocked nirvana really takes a hit. They only way to prevent this is cover her with 5C, or IAD in, but that's not always the case. Zoning seems to consist mainly of 8D, volante, fuoco, and heavy use of 623D. With a little 6D/4D just to make your opponent realize that although the skies are protected, they still need to watch out on the ground. She recharged so fast in CS1 that we could afford to do 6D/4D even if she took a hit afterwards, not so much in CS2/EX.

As I watch EX carls in vids I noticed that they weren't using 6D/4D as much and I was like "Why?", then I started playing CS2 carl, lol and it all became clear.

I posted a combo vid a while back which seems pretty complete... had 2 unblockable setups off 2A 5B 6B 623C RC... too lazy to find the link but I think the name was "Infinite Crisis".

basically its...

2A 5B 6B 22D 623C RC iad j2c allecan 5b 5c(jump) 3D airdash jB jA jB (or jA jB jA? cant remember) j2C jA jA jB+3D... something along these lines

tall character variation was something like

2A 5B 6B 22D 623C RC iad j2c allecan 5b 5c(jump) 8D airdash jA jA jA jA jA (forgot how many) jB3D

Which is fair, since it costs 50% meter.

and of course, tager still gets unblockabled for free lol although i think the matchup got a lot better for tager now than ever.

Oh it came from that vid? I completely forgot. I've seen the vid and I remember now. You actually don't need 50heat to do the loop. I've seen carls do it off the ground loop. It's still possible though and that alone is enough to attempt it.

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I also like the fact that we can use 3D in combos now. In the infinite crisis video there's one 3D combo in there. The P2 from CS2, assuming it hasn't changed, is 95 so that's really good. It's a shame I can't get my hands on EX, I want to test out 3D combos.

His overall combo potential is better than CS1. He can do the same combos, plus more. Lol, I hope they don't mess him up again in the next version.

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covering with 5C isn't so effective now that 5C CH doesn't stagger either =(

you can still zone with CS2 because she recovers decently

since you havent played, EX recovery is REALLY slow btw... I honestly looked at the clock tick for 3 seconds before she started recovering and it makes me super sad =(

I know you dont need the 50% to do the loop but with 50% you can do it without being in the sandwich situation =)

EX carl is really fun because its like CS1 with nerfed damage and better oki... which is what I always thought CS2 carl SHOULD have been.

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The 5C is more for them not to have a chance to hit her. They'll block the 5C and by the time they attack she'll be in the "off" position.

Yea, I've said "Wow nirvana hasn't started recharging yet", so many times in videos. It makes sense though. I mean carl really doesn't need the corner, unless you want to do brio/6D combos, so he has to be balanced with that in mind. His combos in the corner are stronger cause you can use more of nirvana's moves, brio and 6D, but midscreen damage is still very good. So they made her recharge extra slow. From a platinum standpoint I like that lol.

I just love how he's back to his "I hit confirm once and I can reset you to death" CS1 style. It's always fun to watch.

I'm glad his oki is strong. I don't remember, but does 6D pick up tech rolls? If yes, then it's also legit in the corner on opponents wakeup. I like how you have to neutral when playing carl now. Fuoco picking up being a wonderful change. No more guessing games with delayed roll teching for us anymore like in CS1. That was frustrating at times. You finally get them sandwiched/cornered only to have them roll away.

You shouldn't have said that last line Zeero, now I don't feel like playing CS2 anymore :(.

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They took off 5C stagger on counter hit O: ??! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

aw well, it was a risky poke anyway :/

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Hey Zeero (or anyone else with the game), just wondering, is 6A still a good anti-air? I heard that it got a nerf of some sort (I think it was less invincible frames).

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Carl has a few silly-poke options too with his dash-cancel. Not that it's something i'd recommend using often, but dash canceling into 6B covers and absurd distance lol. Also dash-agretto combos into 5b in the corner in EX? nutty?

what I heard about 6a. is that it's still strong and still a bit better than CS1 but not CS2 good. in CS2 i'm pretty sure it's overhead invincible even in parts of it's recovery. You could just toss it out pretty willy-nilly and be safe.

6A always was a pretty decent AA and still is. Just not godly anymore.

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it did get nerfed

its harder to beat out random air attacks, like ragnas jc or any diagonal attacks

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Finally got the game, haven't spent much time with Carl yet but I'll get to it eventually

5C stagger isn't a big deal, IAD hitconfirms still work

At first I was excited for Carl's new dash cancel, but now I'm even more excited for it after discovering you could do 665[D] to cancel his dash with the Nirvana activation animation, which you can cancel immediately into anything else.

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Yeah, pretty much. The "wavedash" is actually kind of hilarious to watch. I dunno if it has any practical applications, but I like having the option to do something like 66 5D 66 for the extra space covered before cancelling into something.

The main reason I wanted to see if it works is for dash barrier: 66 5D 1A+B works, but 66 1A+B doesn't and will result in a normal coming out.

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Just to make this clear for myself is Dio the guy in the Autonomous youtube page? Ive been scrolling through the old video page and couldnt find my answer

i ask because the way they play is almost identical to one another Ive noticed some crazy shit in extend when searching for Dio or just browsing in the autonomous page

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Stuff on AtonomousR's page is just a collection of multiple Carl players. My memory for names is bad so i can't tell you who is who in the videos. However there -Are- some very cool things to glean from match videos from each and every carl player.

If you're looking for Dio, his ear-marks are usually less flashy and not always optimal comboing but an -amazing- ability to predict and react to his opponents. As far as i knew, the general consensus on Dio is that while he isn't 'the best' carl player he IS an incredibly smart player and is fantastic at knowing match ups and what to do.

The ace-ish one who does the craziest stuff starts with an R but I can't be bothered to go looking for his name atm. Tonight is the night for Campaign and I'm already two glasses in.

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The ace-ish one who does the craziest stuff starts with an R but I can't be bothered to go looking for his name atm. Tonight is the night for Campaign and I'm already two glasses in.

Is it Ryuusei you're talking about? I don't know many players, but I always remember him.

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Ryuusei is pretty avg imo, the crazy guy is Ran Rebo(revo?) somethign along those lines.

in the end, hype combos = kyaku

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I couldn't get the last j.2C to connect -- Tager wound up *just* out of range. Maybe I was doing the j.C 9 j.A jump cancel too early, or maybe mashing into j.B j.2C too quickly.

Never mind. I pulled this off last night (CSX), I suspect either hitbox in j.2C was tweaked, or I was just preoccupied with other CA changes this last time.

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Ryuusei is pretty avg imo, the crazy guy is Ran Rebo(revo?) somethign along those lines.

in the end, hype combos = kyaku

Oh. I've heard those names, but I've never seen any matches of those guys.

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for me, notable players:

1r Kyaku

2nd Eesuke

3rd Ranrero

4th Nishi Nishi

5th Ryuusei

- Dio, Nagakura, Setchan and some other jap Carl that use the same color as Dio in Cs1.

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