[CSE] Carl Changes and Discussion Thread

[Akira-Shiro]

Lol cool,,, u changed my post... So your still not sure about the j2c verticle hitbox. I put it up there cause i saw a combo & im pretty sure the way he did it, it would have dropped f this were CS2 but then again it was vs relius so it could just be his hitbox.... but he hit air soo i was a bit confused about that. Also Fuaco's P1 is still the same as it is now O.o

[kaworu]

5b>6B>cantabile>22D>5C>Jb>jc>2D>vivace-B>j2c-Allecan>5c>jc>4D>66>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>volante>j2c>allegreto>8D

This is all very spacing sensitive,, so be careful

Cheers. Was learning this last night, getting the 2D release at the tail end of the 5C before you jump cancel it is tight. Also the 4D hitting after j.C is strict too. But I got it down 80%, just need to practice it more.

Does anyone have any other (less tight) BnB combos off 5B, 6B ?? And what are people using when they start a combo in the corner?

Full notations would be massively appreciated.

[Zeero]

thats the best combo, so unless by less tight you also mean less damage/useful combos, then there arent any.

well, theres the alternate combo wall carry which is just as hard... same up to the 2D then instead of 236B you do

dash 5C (volante) superjump jb dj jb j2c jc (falls onto volante) 5c (air combo into 8d)

[Mascarpone]

So because of the 22 D change, 623C summon volante 5c 236 A no longer puts in NOC I assume?

[Akira-Shiro]

Lol i think you are misunderstanding that change.. Is you do 5b>6B>623c>22D>5C you are already in ONC,, so with a simple jb>jc>2D>236B you are now in CON formation. Which is why it is best to use 2D,,, not only for its change in positioning. But the P2 on 2D is godlike,, so good that it will extend your combo length. So for EX i suggest you brush up on your jb/j2c>jc>2d combos

[Mascarpone]

Akira, 2 things.

Firstly, You didn't answer my question at all.

Secondly, it is thoroughly irritating how every time you respond to anyone's anything you take this presumptuous stance that they don't understand what they are talking about. I know full-well that the 2D combo is optimal, And in most scenarios, I am quite capable of comboing into j.c 2D. I asked my question because on occasions, oh I don't know maybe because it's fun, I like to do flashy/silly things, like volantes after 623C 22D's.

You are by no means a bad player (easily far better than me), you are a large contributor of information to this forum and it's commendable. However, your word is not law, your opinions are not facts and frankly I feel insulted when I'm talked down to by someone who cannot even discern the difference between a period (.) a comma (,) and an ellipsis (...).

[Isuyaru]

So because of the 22 D change, 623C summon volante 5c 236 A no longer puts in NOC I assume?

It still puts in NOC, and actually seems to have higher damage potential than the 5C j.B j.C 2D combo at the cost of a bit more Nirvana life (and harder to execute, but if you learned optimal combos in CS1, you should already have some muscle memory for it)

Example combo: 5B 6B 623C 22D 5C volante 236A j.2C allecan sj.2C j.C 2D backdash j.2C allecan 5C j.C 4D backdash 5C sj.B j.2C j.B dj.B j.C 8D j.2C allegretto 8D

damage: ~4500, meter gain: ~70, uses about 1000 more Nirvana life than other 5B combos

EDIT: Forgot to include information on Nirvana gauge changes (and will also edit the OP with this)

Note: this is all estimated from tests in training mode and may not be 100% accurate.

8D, 6D, 4D, 623D all cost 600

2D, 3D, 421D, 41236D all cost 720

22D costs 500

214214D costs 1000

236236D costs 1500

Continuation costs all seem to be about 140-150%, except for 22D, 214214D, and 236236D which are all 100% like before.

[soujiro seta]

I'm so sorry carl brethren. My new job is kicking my *&$. My shifts have been crazy. I was supposed to be done with the EX reset/strat thread 2 weeks ago, but I had to work on saturday, and I ended up sleeping the whole day sunday. I decided to work on it last saturday, but my boss wanted me to work on saturday again, and I slept on sunday once again.

My shift has finally been made (thank goodness), so I have an idea of when I'll be free rather than my boss needing me at random times. I just got back from work not too long ago. I'm gonna go grab a bite, relax, and work on the thread. Hopefully I'll be done soon . Sorry to have kept you guys waiting.

[soujiro seta]

Also, congrats to isuyaru.

I like how carl's voice, during his DDs, changes when fighting relius. He sounds really angry

[sinder]

^you're not the only one who is being blocked from helping the Carl sections

I was trying to organize some vids for the video threads, but this FASFA thing is making it impossible for me to play on anything now D:

right now, everybody is either working or being forced to do stuff they don't want to do

#realworldproblems

[Rishtopher]

No problem Soujiro, we can wait :P

Any tips against Jin in Cs2?.. i just can´t get close to him, the motherfucker just keep running away. Also Carl loose air to air.

Any tips?

Pretty much this, because I wasn't sure if anyone would answer me in the matchup thread. I find that the only way I get hits in is if I 6A, but usually I get baited or he airdashes low and I get hit with a jC>2D or something. I need some advice on this one because jC > Ada it seems.

What really gets me the is when he'll 2D Ada when she's active, which extends the active frames of the move and when I go in to punish, I get hit by it >__>

Also, probably a n00b thing to say, but FRKZ turns my blood into pure sodium. I dunno how to deal with that at all. :V

[sinder]

Oh volante loops are so sexy X_X!!!!

Anybody know if it's possible to do 3 like in CS1, i can only do 2

As for the Jin match up, you have to hide behind nirvana and follow Jin, untill they come to you. Don't go to the corner without ADA nearby. The match up is much much easier when ADA is literally by your side, since she can block most of his attacks, and you can easily punish. If you end up being corner carried, immediately call ADA and they will definitely back off.

If my damn dazzle card didn't have such crap quality, I would post vids of this match up for you guys

[JG]

Oh volante loops are so sexy X_X!!!!

Anybody know if it's possible to do 3 like in CS1, i can only do 2

As for the Jin match up, you have to hide behind nirvana and follow Jin, untill they come to you. Don't go to the corner without ADA nearby. The match up is much much easier when ADA is literally by your side, since she can block most of his attacks, and you can easily punish. If you end up being corner carried, immediately call ADA and they will definitely back off.

If my damn dazzle card didn't have such crap quality, I would post vids of this match up for you guys

Volante loop? well on CS1 you can do 5 or 6 reps, giving you a total dmg of 5k+ only for doing that. You can deal more if you use some DD move. On Cs2 is another history, volante combo isn´t as good as Cs1, because on CS2 volante have repeat proration and you can´t conbinate a lot of nirvana move in one combo.

So, what do you need to do en CS2? you just need to use it only ONE time, that way you can optimise the dmg. If you do volante combo and 4]D[ combo plus 5C, j.B, j2.C, j.B, j.B,j.C, 8]D[ and manage ending this with fermata, you will deal almost 6K or a little more.

I posted a vid of that combo long time ago here.

About Jin... i really hate that matchup, because the motherfucker just can keep running away from me and i just can´t catch it. And the worst part is, air to air i just loose against Jin.

The same goes for hazama, that fucking matchup is driving me insane... i just can´t understand how is possible that all his normals beat mine without problem and if that doesn't happen, we both end in CH state but hazama recover faster and can land a 5K or 6K combo for free. I just don't understand how this matchup is on Carl favor.

[sinder]

When fighting Jin in the Air, the only move you should be using is J.A. That's it.

As for Hazama his neutral game is much better than Carl's, you are definitely going to need ADA in order to actually get in. 4D, and 8D are probably the best moves to use in this matchup because of how active they are. Brio is also an important tool, but do not spam it because ADA meter is very important in this match up. Once ADA is dead, Carl will have to face Hazama alone, and that can be tricky.

Once the opponent sees that you are using ADA to cover you, they are going to run away until they have some hit confirm into Jakoyu or whatever that kick is. When they get a life lead they are going to run away and the match is going to turn into a game of cat and mouse, and it is going to be very difficult to catch Hazama.

IAD Alle cans can be beat out by his 2C anti- air, which is a disappointment. DO NOT TRY TO BEAT OUT HAZAMA IN NEUTRAL STATE. HIS 2A CAN BEAT OUT A LOT OF THINGS AND LEAD HIM TO A FREE COMBO. I highly suggest using ADA to get the first hit on him because it leaves you with less worries. It is also incorrect to say that Hazama is safe on a blocked Jakoyu, this is actually one of the best times to punish.(You didn't say this, I know)

When you are in a C-O-N state, you basically won the match since ADA can now help you with UB setups and other mix up games. Do not be surprised if a Hazama Bursts as soon as they get into that position.

As for the match up, I do not think it is right to say it is in either one's favor since it depends on the momentum of the match. Either player can get a complete advantage over the other (C-O-N with Carl and Life lead with Hazama) therefore I disagree with whoever told you that the match is in Carl's favor, and I am certain that the person hasn't played many Carl players so they lost to every mix up they encountered.

This is not a fun matchup at all, and it is actually VERY difficult in score attack mode with Carl as well.

[Akira-Shiro]

When fighting Jin in the Air, the only move you should be using is J.A. That's it.

As for Hazama his neutral game is much better than Carl's, you are definitely going to need ADA in order to actually get in. 4D, and 8D are probably the best moves to use in this matchup because of how active they are. Brio is also an important tool, but do not spam it because ADA meter is very important in this match up. Once ADA is dead, Carl will have to face Hazama alone, and that can be tricky.

Once the opponent sees that you are using ADA to cover you, they are going to run away until they have some hit confirm into Jakoyu or whatever that kick is. When they get a life lead they are going to run away and the match is going to turn into a game of cat and mouse, and it is going to be very difficult to catch Hazama.

IAD Alle cans can be beat out by his 2C anti- air, which is a disappointment. DO NOT TRY TO BEAT OUT HAZAMA IN NEUTRAL STATE. HIS 2A CAN BEAT OUT A LOT OF THINGS AND LEAD HIM TO A FREE COMBO. I highly suggest using ADA to get the first hit on him because it leaves you with less worries. It is also incorrect to say that Hazama is safe on a blocked Jakoyu, this is actually one of the best times to punish.(You didn't say this, I know)

When you are in a C-O-N state, you basically won the match since ADA can now help you with UB setups and other mix up games. Do not be surprised if a Hazama Bursts as soon as they get into that position.

As for the match up, I do not think it is right to say it is in either one's favor since it depends on the momentum of the match. Either player can get a complete advantage over the other (C-O-N with Carl and Life lead with Hazama) therefore I disagree with whoever told you that the match is in Carl's favor, and I am certain that the person hasn't played many Carl players so they lost to every mix up they encountered.

This is not a fun matchup at all, and it is actually VERY difficult in score attack mode with Carl as well.

DAMN SKIPPY

[Zoogstin]

I agree with sinder. The matchup may be 5-5 but Carl is not going to catch Hazama unless Hazama says so. That usually means Hazama has to mess up his runaway or Hazama has to go on the offense and then mess up. Then you're at an advantage.

[sinder]

I agree with sinder. The matchup may be 5-5 but Carl is not going to catch Hazama unless Hazama says so. That usually means Hazama has to mess up his runaway or Hazama has to go on the offense and then mess up. Then you're at an advantage.

I'm sorry but you can't agree with me until you accept my Friend request

[kotokot]

what's current carls bnbs? something j.B (j.2C) j.C 2D etc 8D? I want to try him again in csex

[Akira-Shiro]

His bnb is 5b>6b>22D>623c>5c>jb>jc>2D>236b>j2c-allecan>5c>jc>4D>66>5c>jb>j2c>jb>jb>jc>volante>5c>jb>j2c>allegreto>8D this is how i would expect to end this combo but i could be wrong. I have seen this combo done multiple times, but i hav not seen the remaining of the combo, they always stop after the volante.

[kaworu]

Oh volante loops are so sexy X_X!!!!

What are you doing for the Volante loop? Could you post exactly what you're pressing? Cheers.

[sinder]

What are you doing for the Volante loop? Could you post exactly what you're pressing? Cheers.

*_*

Hell to the No!

I cannot transcribe carl combos for my life

I'll try...

I'm going to start off with an impractical naked 2D which is the easiest to do in terms of getting a grasp of the loop, but not the best way to pull it off in a real match

, , , { + []--> ][, J2C~ Allecan to get back to C---> Volante} X2, , J.2C, B, J.2C, B, J.C [8D]

yeah this is terrible...

[goldenxservbot]

*_*

Hell to the No!

I cannot transcribe carl combos for my life

I'll try...

I'm going to start off with an impractical naked 2D which is the easiest to do in terms of getting a grasp of the loop, but not the best way to pull it off in a real match

, , , { + []--> ][, J2C~ Allecan to get back to C---> Volante} X2, , J.2C, B, J.2C, B, J.C [8D]

yeah this is terrible...

no its not you aight

[JG]

Volante and 4]D[ Combo:

2]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 421]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 9j.C, 4]D[, 5C, j.B, j2.C, J.B, J.B, j.C, 8]D[.

Variation of Volante combo

2]D[, 5C, j.B-j.C, 421]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 9j.C, 4]D[, 5C, j.B, j2.C, J.B, J.B, j.C, 8]D[.

With Brio as starter:

Sj.B, j.B, j.C, 421]D[, (land) j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 9j.C, 4]D[, 5C, j.B, j2.C, J.B, J.B, j.C, 8]D[.

After a Cantabille:

5B, 623C, 5C, 421]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 9j.C, 4]D[, 5C, j.B, j2.C, J.B, J.B, j.C, 8]D[.

On corner NCO:

2]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 421]D[, j2.C Alle~cancel, 5C, 8j.C, 4]D[,(land) 7j2.C, 214C, 623]D[, (land) 5C, j.B, j2.C, J.B, J.B, j.C, 8]D[.

I performed all of this combos on Cs2, you can end all of them with fermmata dealing 5K or more, especially the last one. On BBSEX this type of combo deal more dmg and you can add more hit, without metter this type of combo on sex deal almost 5K.

Also all of this combos give you like 45% heat meter, pretty neat huh?

[sinder]

Also all of this combos give you like 45% heat meter, pretty neat huh?

no

[PhaethonH]

The dash-activation, 66~5D, loops into itself and is functionally a wavedash, complete with waving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IekZmwiIb7Y&t=1m0s

Other silly stuff is possible off 66~5D, such as forward dash to backdash (66~5D, 44) and dashing super jump (66~5D, 29). Dash-activation jump into Distortion endows Carl with strange momentum during super flash, not sure if a glitch.