[CSE] Valkenhayn BBCS2 > Extend Changes/Discussion Thread

[OrionXElite]

As by forum request, I'll list the Changes to Valk from CS2 to Extend. There aren't TOO many changes as hes rather unchanged but there are at least some to discuss. "+" means a Buff, "-" means a Nerf, "=" means really neither one, just a change. I'll also add my own thoughts on some of them to help spark conversation.

+ j.C has reduced landing recovery allowing for new combo routes.

= 3C now Emergency Techable BUT it is also able to be Special Cancelled on Hit/Block now. Valk both loses old combo routes while gaining new ones.

= [W]5B has had its Head Invincibility changed from Frames 7-12 to ending before the Active Frames start.

My Thoughts: I'd estimate its from 3-6 now. Technically a Nerf, but due to the nature of the change, this will allow us to trade a lot in the AA situations and still pick up the combo off of CH Trade in a majority of cases.

+ On Aerial Hit, 236A(Nacht Jaeger) will cause Blowback away from Valk with a large increase in Untechable time allowing for followups in or near the corner.

My Thoughts: GREAT change to him, lets us get long range confirms off of 3C and gives us much better Oki compared to hitting it after a 5C as on Standing hit, you're barely + on hit so Mixing up after can be risky.

+ 236B~B(Weiss Jagd) got a P2 Buff. Not sure how much it got improved, but given that 3C>236B probably doesn't work anymore, this will be harder to utilize effectively. Makes hitting 236B empty more rewarding.

- [W]j.214A/B(Eisen Wolf) now has had its Attack Level reduced. This translates to less Blockstun which is the Nerf. Also supposedly worse Proration but not confirmed yet.

My Thoughts: As it is now, its about +5/+6 on normal Block in CS2. Even if it got reduced to a Level 2 Attack(Its Level 4 now), this would still put Valk at Neutral on Normal block. If its been changed to a Level 1, then it will be about -2 meaning its still hard to impossible to punish it without an IB. Not as harsh of a Nerf as people may think, its just that this move was broken as shit in CS2 so its a fair change.

-[W]236D Command Grab(Himmel Wolf) Now does only 1000 Damage. In CS1, it did 2300; In CS2, it does 1500 so they've reduced the Damage EVEN further reducing our overall Damage potential off of it. Also apparently has longer whiff recovery, not sure how much though.

My Thoughts: This is Valk's biggest Nerf but it still isn't too bad as everyone with a Command Grab outside of Tager got big Nerfs to their respective Grabs. Bang's prorates like a bitch now meaning he gets really poor damage for the Meter needed. Hazama lost its invincibility and due to his combo/chain Nerfs, he gets much less off of this now. Platinum's is still just the flat 1500 and no combo after. Combo Damage for this is gonna be overall changed to something like 3-3.5K in the corner now.

Those are all the ones I know of. I know there was a note saying that 2C AND [W]j.B had reduced hitstun but both of those have been confirmed not true and those moves remained unchanged.

If you know of any I missed and can provide proof/good reason behind it, I'll add it. Other than that, discuss anything about his changes here. Debate my thoughts if you feel like it as I put them there purely for the purpose of igniting conversation so go nuts :3

[-Wehrwolf-]

Thanks a whole bunch!

I'm glad to know there are reliable people with good source of info! :D

I can't wait to pick him up again when Extend comes out! But for the meantime, I'll continue with CS II.

Thanks again (:

[Sahgren]

Kinda sad about the Eisen nerf, but the move was just too good and warranted the nerf.

Have to wonder about the 236B~B buff. A raw 236B~B in the corner already leads into 4k; I'm curious as to what we can get off of it now.

[NeonCrusader]

I heard that Eisen also had its landing recovery significantly increased, but at the same time it's able to be cancelled with C dashes on landing now. Any confirmation of this?

[Sahgren]

I heard that Eisen also had its landing recovery significantly increased, but at the same time it's able to be cancelled with C dashes on landing now. Any confirmation of this?

Yeah, but we don't have confirmation on just how much landing recovery there is. We can c-dash cancel it to keep going, but once again we don't know how much of an advantage/disadvantage that puts us at. At some point we'll need to test it and see how safe Eisen is in CSX.

[OrionXElite]

When I was at NWM, I played a few games with Valk and the change to Eisen is actually pretty significant. Its honestly even on block AT BEST. The added landing recovery also made it quite less effective on non-CH as the opponent has more time to react to the fact they got hit and tech. CH still gets you a combo though, just a tighter link to 5A now.

While I'm at it and not doing schoolwork, I'll note some of the things I felt about Valk from playing him at NWM since I realized I still haven't done that(Sorry:v: )

-So first was the obvious change to Eisen Wolf. Its much less useful now and shouldn't be used very often at all. The occasional Eisen is ok if you condition them to AA something like j.B but still nowhere near as effective.

-the 7CD>j.C>2A>5B>2C combo is really easy so long as you hit the j.C right. I much preferred this combo to the usual [W]j.B>j.B>Land 5B combos.

-Having the option of hitting 3C>236A is soooooooooooo damn good now as I'm not just doing 6C all over the place breaking primers and shit. I actually use it as a mixup tool at max range now since its viable and easy to confirm.

-The IB+Barrier knockback increase is going to vital to keeping pressure off of Valk. I played against a Bang and IB+Barrier'd 2B>5B and literally anything he did after it whiffed. The knockback is HUGE and makes pressure much less effective for some characters like Bang and Ragna which in turn makes those matchups much more bearable for us.

Honestly other than those things, hes exactly the same. Hes still really damn good and hes gonna stay good so get hype :3

[goldenxservbot]

When I was at NWM, I played a few games with Valk and the change to Eisen is actually pretty significant. Its honestly even on block AT BEST. The added landing recovery also made it quite less effective on non-CH as the opponent has more time to react to the fact they got hit and tech. CH still gets you a combo though, just a tighter link to 5A now.

While I'm at it and not doing schoolwork, I'll note some of the things I felt about Valk from playing him at NWM since I realized I still haven't done that(Sorry:v: )

-So first was the obvious change to Eisen Wolf. Its much less useful now and shouldn't be used very often at all. The occasional Eisen is ok if you condition them to AA something like j.B but still nowhere near as effective.

-the 7CD>j.C>2A>5B>2C combo is really easy so long as you hit the j.C right. I much preferred this combo to the usual [W]j.B>j.B>Land 5B combos.

-Having the option of hitting 3C>236A is soooooooooooo damn good now as I'm not just doing 6C all over the place breaking primers and shit. I actually use it as a mixup tool at max range now since its viable and easy to confirm.

-The IB+Barrier knockback increase is going to vital to keeping pressure off of Valk. I played against a Bang and IB+Barrier'd 2B>5B and literally anything he did after it whiffed. The knockback is HUGE and makes pressure much less effective for some characters like Bang and Ragna which in turn makes those matchups much more bearable for us.

Honestly other than those things, hes exactly the same. Hes still really damn good and hes gonna stay good so get hype :3

Alright not sure how this will go but im about to drop a wall of text on you guys with what ive seen so far:

Regarding your post Orion: Yeah no shit, its pretty obvious that he is good. He is already known to be S-tier on Extend which is why i see many new faces that just HAPPENED to start liking Valkenhayn out of no where such as some that just started posting a few days ago on here lol. Despite being one of the few "difficult to moderate" to learn in extend from what ive seen in streams and during Northwest this guy truly is a broken character some may drop him because of wolf meter management but hey its not like it matters.

Eisen wolf is no longer retarded meaning it being plus when spammed on air to knock the opp down as seen on CS2 that along with wolf 5b but even then in extend wolf 5B is still a good anti air. The character didn't change much at all his wolf depletion shouldn't be a huge factor for good Valk players, but one thing is known that many wont be able to continuously bite as they zoom in on their opp meaning youre going to have to somewhat think when approaching an opp.

This guy is the only complaint for Extend, in the streams you can hear the Japanese say the same. Which also brings me to this characters 6A, ironically this one should have gotten nerfed as well but instead it got stronger in recovery and as a heavy guard point.