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Dusty

[CSE] Hazama General Discussion - Lane Changin' Chain Swangin'! Lane Changin' Chain Swangin!....Fedora Boyz

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I don't know. I don't like that either. I admit you can get good oki, but it seems lazy. Even Hazama's challenges in BBCS EX look like they do more damage than Buppa's. Shame.

Yeah, but the oki didn't really seem to justify it... Iunno, I'm the biggest nooblet around this board but it just seems like he has to have better options than that.

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So, screw Zidane. He was never around when he was here anyways, haha. What do you guys think are Hazama's best optimal combos off of Jayoku as of now? 5B > 3C > 236236B > ???. Or 6A > 236236B > ???. You guys get the idea. Just trying to figure out how to get the biggest damage and heat gain off of those hit-confirms. Feel like the top japanese players aren't helping much anymore. Maybe everything is stricter timing? Or they all became lazy? Who knows...

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Well, I've been playing EX since late November at the arcade. I can tell you for a fact that the timing is not stricter by any means (unless you're talking about linking hits after 623D, since they increased the recovery time). The only things I can think of that have strict timing are his meterless mid-screen throw options. For example linking dash 2B after forward throw > 623D is a little difficult. Also, stance cancelling and doing j.6D~D after backwards throw is easy to screw up. Then again, I only attempted these combos a minimal amount of times and I could probably get it down with a bit of practice. And before you ask, no I don't have a copy at home, I don't plan to import it anytime soon (I want my astral music fixed, damn it), and I'm not near that arcade anymore since I'm back in my hometown for the holidays.

As for optimal Jayoku starters? Assuming they didn't change the P1 on 5C... probably 5C. As for the rest of the combo, if you're completely in the middle of the stage, something like (starter) > 236236B > 214D~C > 6C (they upped the damage on this) > dash 2C > j.Cx5 > land > 2C > j.9214B > dash 5C > 2C > 6D~A > 4D~D > j.B > j.Cx2 > jc > j.Cx5 > j.214B would probably work. I know for a fact that this combo works in CS2 (there's no reason it shouldn't work in EX) spare the j.B + j.Cx2 part cos I'm lazy and just did j.Cx5.

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Got my EX copy today! (it also came with a BB CD ost that I did not expect lol)

Been testing some combos that I've seen on jp vids:

midscreen the best combo is definitly:

3C 236236B dash 214D~C(2) 66C dash 2C j.Cx5 dash 2C tk j.214B 5C 2C 4D~D j.B j.Cx2 j.Cx5 j.214B

DMG: 5113 HG: 30

5825/32 with 5C(2) starter.

doubt it works off every starter though; I can't seem to connect 4D~D after 2C when starting from 6A (on relius), I'll keep testing!

the easy brain dead combo is (not like the previos one is any difficult):

3C 236236B dash 214D~C(2) 66C dash 2C j.Cx5 dash 2C 4D~D j.B j.Cx2 j.Cx5 j.214B

DMG: ~4900 HG: 19

edit:

6A 236236B dash 214D~C(2) 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.Cx2 j.Cx5 j.214B

DMG: 4485 HG: 28

5C starter: 5865 / 28

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Thank you very much, Sey. Especially thank you for confirming that the best midscreen combos do indeed include one TK j.214B. Could you try adding a 6D~A in the top combo though? As stated above, I know it works in CS2, and there really isn't any reason it shouldn't work in EX. If you want specifics, try it on Valkenhayn, Ragna, or Bang as I know it works on all of them.

Again, thank you. It's nice to finally have a Haz player who has a copy of EX, at least for these next two months.

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As far as mid screen combos go, this is what I've found so far:

1 hit starter:

5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 5641 HG: 26

5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 5865 HG: 28

5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 dash 2C tk j.214B 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 5859 HG: 32

2 hit starter:

5B 5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 4954 HG: 20

5B 5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 5118 HG: 22

5B 5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 dash 2C tk j.214B 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 5141 HG: 30

3 hit starter:

2A 5B 5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 3844 HG: 20

2A 5B 5C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 3968 HG: 22

Overhead:

6A Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 4290 HG: 20

6A Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 4440 HG: 22

Command throw:

236C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 2C j.C x5 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 3439 HG: 19

236C Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 4D~D j.B j.C x2 j.C x5 j.214B

DMG: 3578 HG: 22

Notes:

As everyone can see, there are 3 possible routes:

- The one without any tk hirentotsu is the most consistent out of the three, it's pretty much impossible to drop.

- The second one is of course better than the first one, and it's pretty much always possible to do it; it's also possible to add a 6D~A before the 4D~D, it's all about how deep you do dash 5C after tk hirentotsu.

6D~A adds about 30~50dmg and like 2~5 hg.

- The third one is of course the most damaging out of the three (if you don't count the 2nd+6D~A this is usually true), and builds the most meter of the three; this one feels pretty much starter-dependent (and possibly even chara specific) as I couldn't get the 2C > tk hirentotsu link starting from 2A/6A/236C.

All the combos were done on Ragna, I'll be testing chara specific stuff and corner combos tomorrow or w/e~

I'll of course keep practicing midscreen stuff too, so if I find any better combos or errors or something, I'll just edit my post.

I was also doing them with meter set to 100, so these combos give slightly more meter than what I've wrote.

Oh, and while Relius may be big, he's not hakumen/tager big, so no 6A>2A / 214D~A>2A link on him.

I'll test out normals dmg in a few minutes, I'm not sure how to find out the proration on normals, so I'll just check if there are any obvious difference in the base dmg.

5A 250 > 300

2A 150 > 300

j.A 180 > 300

214D~B 900 > 1000

everything else is the same.

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Try this combo please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyYFtUaOKls

Technically, you can use flash kick instead of the RC > 6C > Mizuchi but I'm not sure.

Also, is TK loop easier in CSEX?

It doesn't feel any easier or harder tbh.

Ironically, what's giving me problem right now is 214D~B 3C lol, I just don't remeber if you can do 5C 2C 214D~B dash 5C 214D~B dash 3C, or if you are supposed to just do one rep and end in 3C;

I'll check some video later.

nvm, it's possible to do 2 reps, I'm not sure why I didn't want to do a second 2C...

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No word from my combo ;__;

I'm trying out Relius a bit D;

I'll do it tomorrow!

Oh and 214D~B 3C makes no sense atm, you can do 2 reps and then dash 3C, but if you do so, mizuchi will whiff, but I can't seem to hit 3C after a single 214D~B, bah, w/e

Edit: oh, now I get it I think, need to do 5C j.C x5 5C 214D~B 3C if I want to end with Mizuchi, or at least that's definitely a way.

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@Sey: I don't think you're supposed to do 5C > 2C > 214D~B twice and then do 3C. I think it's just once.

@Zeron Sey is probably going to have to cut out the dash 5C > 6C after 623D and go straight into the TK loop since 6C has repeat proration now.

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@Sey: I don't think you're supposed to do 5C > 2C > 214D~B twice and then do 3C. I think it's just once.

@Zeron Sey is probably going to have to cut out the dash 5C > 6C after 623D and go straight into the TK loop since 6C has repeat proration now.

Yeah I know.

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damn testing corner stuff is sooo tedious; so bear with me if this post isn't going to be detailed as the other one.

2A 5B 5C 3C [5C 2C tk j.214B]x2 5C 2C 214D~B dash 3C 214D~ oki

DMG: 2519 HG: 56

As for every other starter, you can at the very least do 3 loops and then 214D~B (on some characters 214D~B may whiff I think, so you may have to end it short at 2 reps).

You can get more if you are willing to do at least a dash tk j.214B, in that case you can get to 4 easily.

Starting from 5B 5C, 3 loops do about 3.3k and build ~60 hg, doing 4 it's something like barely 3.4k and I don't know how much meter, I think it's less than 70 though.

As for "enders", after 2 reps you can end do [5C j.C x5 5C] and then either do [j.C x5 j.214B] for our usual oki, or go for [214D~B 3C 214D~] oki.

I can't seem to get mizuchi to land on relius after 214D~B 3C though;

Haven't tested Hountejin stuff yet, but I'm pretty sure the theory is still the same (if we not take into account cross over 6C blabla, which I still need to try out)

I'm sorry if this is into detailed, but testing stuff in the corner is pretty boring, especially when you end up dropping a dash loop and have to start again by either restarting everything and dash to the corner to reset the meter bar, or doing a bunch of hountejin and then waiting for the cooldown to end.

EDIT:

5C Hountejin 214D~C 6C [5C 2C j.214B]x2 dash [5C 2C j.214B]x2 5C 2C 214D~B 3C Mizuchi

DMG: 7393 HG: 41 (? I was doing this with meter set to 100, and after Mizuchi I had 41 meter left, so~)

It's possible to do 3 reps for the second set, but 3C whiffs after 214D~B, and I'm pretty sure that if you do dash 3C from that distance Mizuchi will not connect.

Guess I'll try 3 > 2 instead of 2 > 3 :psyduck:

Doesn't work either, 5 reps total deal 6421 dmg before the 3C.

5 reps is definitely the limit in CS:EX as well, and doing so many without something like a 5C o 6C starter is just asking for the combo to drop.

Corner combos summary:

You can pretty much always do 2 reps.

3 reps is definitely possible off most starter/Hountejin combo (dash loop is optional on most characters I think, can just do 3 straight reps).

4 is the optimal solution off the better starter (you MUST do a dash loop to get to 4 reps, 2 reps > dash > 2 reps is recommended).

5 reps: swag.

getting back enough meter for mizuchi ender is kinda hard I think, can mostly manage about 40ish meter return off most Hountejin combo, any non-hountejin corner combo builds 50~60+ easily though.

must learn dashing loops for optimal combos.

unlike what I originally thought, 3C 214D~ oki seems pretty good, I'd say even better than j.214B oki, I want to test if it's possible to set up 3C 214D~ in such a way that DPs will whiff.

and I'm not looking forward to netplay hazama

Gotta study some database theory then I'll get to cross over 6C combos, hype :toot:

Oh I'd like to remember that this is pretty much all day 1 stuff, for all I know I could be wrong on most things.

Abyss mode is pretty fun, but apart from the obvious stuff idk what kind of abilities I'm giving to Hazama lol, I've somewhat unlocked a "dark ouroboros" ability but I don't understand what it's supposed to do.

As for DLC colors, you need to get to lv6 to unlock Hazama's (lv4 is the basic CT cast, 5 is like lambda and hakumen, 6 tsubaki/hazama/mu, 7 relius/makoto/platinum/valk).

If you do all of Hazama's challenges you get to like, lv3, then just do a bunch of arcade runs and you'll get to lv6 soon enough.

ps: god i hate vBulletin, why did there have to be a limit on how many letters you must put in your nickname:(

EDIT2:

As everyone thought, cross over 6C combos are stronger than the "same side" combos.

5C Hountejin dash 6C dash [5C 2C tk j.214B] 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~A 623D dash [5C 2C tk j.214B]x2 5C 2C 214D~B 3C Mizuchi

DMG: 7749 HG: ~58 (before mizuchi)

5C Hountejin dash 6C dash [5C 2C tk j.214B] 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~A 623D dash [5C 2C tk j.214B]x3 5C 2C 214D~B 3C

DMG: 6801 HG: 67

DMG: 7881 w/ Mizuchi ender.

these were done on Jin.

Some more random corner stuff:

2A 5B 5C Hountejin 214D~C 6C [5C 2C j.214B] dash [5C 2C j.214B]x3 5C 2C 214D~B 3C

DMG: 4271 HG: just slightly less than 50, it was like 48~46

when trying some stuff starting from 6A, once I got to the 5th rep Jin tech'd in the air.

6A Hountejin 214D~C 6C [5C 2C j.214B] dash [5C 2C j.214B]x3 5C 2C 214D~B 3C

DMG: 4806 HG: 44

I don't think it's possible to get more dmg off 6A than this (barring 6C cross overs).

6A Hountejin dash 214D~C 66C dash [5C 2C tk j.214B] 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~A 623D dash [5C 2C tk j.214B]x2 5C 2C 214D~B 3C

DMG: 5064 HG: 56

Can't do more reps than this with 6A starter, Jin just techs out.

I guess this is pretty much it for BBCS:EX Hazama? Or well, I guess I could check how much dmg we get off throws, hmm.

I'll eventually reorganize everything I've wrote, I'm sorry if this is closer to a ramble rather than a combo list lol.

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Sey, can you try something else for me? can you see if you can link 214D~B after 3C at the end of the loop combos? If you can, then you should be able to connect 5A and force the opponent to air tech. Though that doesn't sound near as appealing as 214D~ oki, I just think it would be interesting because you could follow up with a 5B>5C>2C>214D~B all-anti-air blockstring that removes a primer. In fact, if that blockstring itself is possible (that is, all hits don't whiff), then perhaps the whole 214D~B x 2 combos may not be in vain.

Also, what is the smartest thing to do in the 214D~ oki situation? Personally, I would just stance cancel. Staying in stance just seems dangerous (I've seen Japanese players throw out whiffed stance DP's :psyduck:), especially because you're pretty much screwed if you do the wrong follow-up or if you time your follow-up wrong.

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Tried that 214D~B > 5A stuff off a generic two rep loop off 5B 5C: you can link 214D~B after the 3C, but you are pretty much out of range after that, and even a dash 5A won't connect.

Or even if you do something like [1st rep] dash [2n rep] 214D~B dash 3C 214D~B, 5A won't connect.

As for the smartest thing off 214D~ oki I guess it's mostly about what kind of opponent you are facing?

I'd say that if the opponent is respecting 214D~ oki, both ~A and ~C are very strong option that if hit will put the opponent in the same position as again.

I mean, 214D~ pretty much charges your stance for free, and gives you access to either a 21fr low or a 19fr overhead, that's pretty good I'd say.

Of course mashing beats this setup more than likely (I think, I haven't test yet if 2a/5a would be out of range), so ~B or ~D are of course good option as well.

And for oki setups, I saw UDON (who, afaik, is just ADON under a new card name) end 214D~B with a blue beat 6B on multiple occasions for no apparent reason...

eh, the basic combo off forward throw is pretty strong.

6B+C 623D RC dash 214D~C 6C dash 2C j.C x5 dash 2C 4D~D j.B j.Cx2 j.Cx5 j.214B

DMG: 4185 HG: 49

So we pretty much get 4k of forward throw once we get 50 meter at the cost of 1.

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Hmmm, I see. I wonder if you can do it off of one rep then... In theory (if performed correctly), I was hoping that 214D~B could give us something akin to Jin's freeze resets which more or less force you to barrier guard.

Anyway, I have but one last weird request: can you see what kind of combo you can get off of counter hit 6B? Like I said, I didn't get to play EX much at the arcade, but when I did, I landed counter hit 6B on numerous occasions (mostly because I still fail to dash 5B after chain ins sometimes :sweatdrop:). I noticed that it has this kind of weird float/pull to it, so if it's possible to even get a level 1 214D~C to connect with that, then that would be great.

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Midscreen:

(CH) 6B (delay) 5C 2C tk j.214B dash 5C 2C 6D~A 4D~D j.B j.Cx2 j.Cx5

DMG: 3009 HG: 42

Corner:

(CH) 6B 5C 6C ... you guys should know what goes here by now :kitty:

And for the 5A reset: well, you can just do <whatever> 3C 236D dash 5C 2C 214D~B dash 5A, that one definitely works.

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That is off of CH 6B right? I swear, if that's off of regular hit, then 6B just became even more awesome (not that getting 42 heat off midscreen CH 6B isn't already awesome).

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That is off of CH 6B right? I swear, if that's off of regular hit, then 6B just became even more awesome (not that getting 42 heat off midscreen CH 6B isn't already awesome).

yeah, it's CH, my bad for not writing it down.

Eh, I'm testing a bit more the 6C cross over hountejin combo and it's kind of annoying to get down consistently.

I'm trying it on Bang, and I already have to drop the 4D~A, and have to time the 623D after the 6D~A so that Bang is high enough or Hazama won't recover in time to loop Bang.

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