AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Haha Hex. I think my mind just imploded! On a related note, that match-up chart is funny though. I mean, some of it I can understand say Lambda being 4-6 versus Carl, but 5.5-4.5 with Tager? I don't think any buff Tager received would change the match up. 6-4 unless they decide to give Tager and sprinting dash, full projectile immunity, and whenever Lambda decides to do 236x it doesn't happen, she just gets astral'd. Hell, why not just put Carl behind Tager, that'd be kind of funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toanenadiz Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Haha Hex. I think my mind just imploded! On a related note, that match-up chart is funny though. I mean, some of it I can understand say Lambda being 4-6 versus Carl, but 5.5-4.5 with Tager? I don't think any buff Tager received would change the match up. 6-4 unless they decide to give Tager and sprinting dash, full projectile immunity, and whenever Lambda decides to do 236x it doesn't happen, she just gets astral'd. Hell, why not just put Carl behind Tager, that'd be kind of funny. Tager's meter gain increased (as well as his damage output) and his pressure became better. That might be why they think it is 5.5-4.5 and not 6-4 anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 18, 2012 I think its 5.5-4.5 in CS2 even, but I can see it being 6-4 in CS2. Honestly though Lambda vs Tager in CSEX is definitely 5.5-4.5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Either way, that really doesn't matter does it. He has good damage output but Lambda has much higher mobility, his ways of getting in are mediocre at best. I can't really see it being anything but 6-4. His meter gain is good but most times you can read when he's going to do it or not, his new sledgehammer can still be stuffed by 236B if they haven't changed that. And besides, doing sledge charge when Lambda has meter is asking to be legacy edge'd into a 6k+ combo. The reason I think it's still 6-4 is because the style hasn't changed very much. He has some new tools, but that still doesn't change how a Lambda will play the match-up, which is being an annoying ass and getting flamed a minute later for running away all the time. Edit: Netplay, I can actually see the match up being 5.5-4.5 or even though lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Well everyone has their own opinion on the MU. Regardless of the exact numbers, its still a positive MU xD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toanenadiz Report post Posted January 18, 2012 He still has a hard time getting in, but now it is harder for Lambda to escape it and he does more damage on average when he gets a hit than he did before. Hence, why the match-up numbers may have changed. Then again, this is a random match-up chart, so who knows? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Man thinking about it more, that MU would be a nightmare if he had a dash/air-dash. He has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many options to get in, just he has bad mobility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah, if she has a tougher time escaping I suppose I can see it in that direction. Overall, I think Lambda is in a better place than she was in CS2. Even though not a lot has changed for her, she had a lot of even match ups, which transformed into favorable match ups to her. I really can't wait to try her new combos out and whatnot. Just talking about MU and stuff makes me want Extend all the more. That aside, anyone know how I make my avatar slightly bigger? Seems that it's much smaller than most people's (not talking mod size). Edit: @Seph, yeah he does have a good mind game. I was actually looking over the speculated match ups between Lambda vs Hazama, Bang, and Tao, and honestly, if those variables are true, I think I'll be satisfied. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Talk to Hex about it. He made me this one and I love him for it <3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverDeity Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Overall I think the Tager matchup got worse for Lambda on the transition from CS2 to CSE for a number of reasons: -Lambda's corner carry via multiple midscreen Cavaliers in combos has been nerfed, so it's harder to get him to the corner for higher damage -Tager's normals got better, which makes it even harder to escape for Lambda when Tager gets in -Tager's meter gain got better, which means along with his combo damage buff he does a lot more damage than before when he hits you -Chargeable sledge makes 5D(CH)->Cavalier on reaction much more difficult, and allows Tager to close gaps easily if you aren't paying attention. just some thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
worldjem7 Report post Posted January 18, 2012 Those faults, except the corner carry, are all provided that tager gets in on you. So those can be considered moot. What you really need to look at is if tager got any better ways to get through lambda's projectile defense. Only thing different is the chargeable sledge, therefore Lambda can't do fullscreen zoning anymore. That's it. There's no way he's ever going to eat a 5D anymore by doing sledge because he can just do charged B sledge into the followup for a fullscreen projectile invincible move. So the counters to charge sledge are: If he likes to charge it up a lot then just cavalier him or if you're mid range 6C/3C > 236B him or whichever is the fastest or safest poke at the time. If you're too afraid of running in with a cavalier or if you're full screen and he's charging, just super-jump > airdash over him. Once you make him scared to charge sledge then it becomes CS2 again and you can start using sickle storm and stuff to help keep him away. Just don't spam it or be unsafe or predictable with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 18, 2012 6C, 236x, 3C, Legacy Edge(?), j.x; all good ways to stop a mindless sledge charging Tager. I'm sure when Extend hits, you'll find a lot spamming it so just teach them a lesson to remind them their place. And considering Lambda can do CH 3C > 236D, that opens a lot of options to her game plan if she gets in (odd I know). That aside, is there any way for Tager to stop Lambda's 6C aside from spark bolt? I mean he could jump, but is the recovery good enough that Lambda can 2D > 4B, or something to that effect? Edit: I'm referring to 6C as a spacing tool or a punish, maybe even a poke. It pushes the opponent back so I think it could be useful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverDeity Report post Posted January 18, 2012 I never said that the matchup was hard or anything, just named some reasons why the matchup data could have changed through the games lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 19, 2012 6C as a poke...? I'm scared shitless to just throw out 6C like that against Tager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 19, 2012 6C as a poke...? I'm scared shitless to just throw out 6C like that against Tager. It's really slow, but it also has a huge hitbox, if you space it well against Tager there should be nothing he can do against it. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CH 6C combo into 236C? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HexaNoid Report post Posted January 19, 2012 CH 6C(1) does I believe, but not if the other hits connect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaKage Report post Posted January 19, 2012 CH 6C(1) does I believe, but not if the other hits connect. Huh? for reals? I could have sworn... maybe if the LAST hit connects it will also combo? Because I swear I've done that before while bored in training mode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Overheat Report post Posted January 19, 2012 Must have been a crouch CH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah, that's what I was wondering. 6C has a 24 frame recovery, according to the frame data if I'm reading that correctly, so I am not sure if Tager has anything that can close the gap a 6C makes if it whiffs. He could say, sledge in, but you can do 6C again if need be, or you know, run. That aside, 6C does have a 100 P1 so it's a fairly good starter. I was just curious about the effectiveness of 6C in the match up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Overheat Report post Posted January 19, 2012 Depends IMO. The problem is, there are better tools to use. Plus, if you're magnetized, he can A-buster on reaction depending on the distance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilseph Report post Posted January 19, 2012 Depends IMO. The problem is, there are better tools to use. Plus, if you're magnetized, he can A-buster on reaction depending on the distance. Yeah this. I don't like 6C is kinda risky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverDeity Report post Posted January 19, 2012 magnetized* IB IB IB IB IB IB IB IB-> 720 awwww yea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 19, 2012 magnetized* IB IB IB IB IB IB IB IB-> 720 awwww yea I wonder if Lambda's still remember what else 214A does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverDeity Report post Posted January 19, 2012 I wonder if Lambda's still remember what else 214A does. Haha yeah it can beat out throws/mindless throw techs. I like going for obvious 236A->Throw setups and instead doing 236A->214A and get a free FC combo. Also Ached WHERE DID YOU GET THAT PIC IN YOUR AVATAR IT'S SO KYUT D: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted January 19, 2012 Haha yeah it can beat out throws/mindless throw techs. I like going for obvious 236A->Throw setups and instead doing 236A->214A and get a free FC combo. Also Ached WHERE DID YOU GET THAT PIC IN YOUR AVATAR IT'S SO KYUT D: Murki tweaked my old avatar and made this one. It's really cute. Lambda is just so win in it :D And yeah 236A > 214A is something that sounds really cool. I'm pretty sure 214A will beat out mashes and sometimes it clashes with DPs interestingly enough. Kind of like Bang's guardpoints, except it usually beats those. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
