[CSE] Lambda General Discussion

[Delrian]

I explicitly remember challenge mode making me use the eighth hit of 5C as well.

[LunaKage]

I explicitly remember challenge mode making me use the eighth hit of 5C as well.

Yeah but how often are you gonna use that 8th hit in a real match?

[tuka]

falling j.C on CH

[toanenadiz]

So, in Xie's tier list thread (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13251-BBCS-Extend-Tier-List-Thread), he put the following as Lambda's character assessment.

Lambda

Reward Assessment: B+ Rank

Neutral Viability: S- Rank

Offensive Viability: A Rank

Defensive Viability: C+ Rank

Versatility: B Rank

Complexity: B Rank

Current Assessment: A- Rank

And so you know what they each mean:

Character Parameters: Will be rated from C- to S+. Each parameter is weighed in its own category, so please take a look at each description to fully understand how the assessment was made.

Reward Assessment: A general outlook on a character’s average damage and heat gain, taking into account how often maximum or minimum damage situations can occur. Also assess other potential rewards.

Neutral Viability: A review of how well the character fairs in neutral situations, especially in respect to how the character can shift into an offensive or damage dealing state, as well as avoid being put into a defensive or receiving damage state.

Offensive Viability: An overview of the character’s ability to create damage opportunities when they have the advantage, as well as prevent the opponent from escaping or safely retaliating.

Defensive Viability: An evaluation of the character’s ability to escape from situations where they are at a disadvantage or create opportunities to retaliate.

Versatility: A flavorful descriptor, has little real meaning in terms of character strength. Describes the character's ability to play in multiple styles.

Complexity: Another flavorful descriptor, also does not have much meaning in terms of character strength. Describes a character's abilities number of TOTAL options in a given time.

Current Assessment: General assessment of all factors. Current placement on the list

Any thoughts on this guys?

[mAc Chaos]

Neutral is where you spend the majority of the match with Lambda unless you got absolutely destroyed, so it's a pretty good sign if that's where her S rank is.

[Delrian]

Yeah but how often are you gonna use that 8th hit in a real match?

Useless normals are still normals. :P

[lilseph]

Neutral is where you spend the majority of the match with Lambda unless you got absolutely destroyed, so it's a pretty good sign if that's where her S rank is.

Agreed, looking at what she has going for her it looks as if they all connect in some way which means there's a good flow to her character if that made any sense.

Also I think Reward Assessment should be A- but hey that's just me. Xie knows way more about than I do and hes a better player :P

[LunaKage]

Well I mean, she only gets about 2k off of an anti-air drive.

[mAc Chaos]

It's more like 3k.

[Overheat]

It's actually more like 2.5K if you get the feint in lol

[lilseph]

It's more like 2.5k... I'm not taking the average its actually 2.5k...

But regardless her damage is really good, she can pick up a combo from basically anywhere on the screen, heat gain is not half bad, and the fact that she can combo into 236C from quite a few moves is impressive in itself.

EDIT: fuck, ninjad by overheat!

[LunaKage]

well yeah I suppose 2.5 is quite a bit in retrospect.

[AchedSphinx]

Alright, here's my assessment on Lambda and her stuffs.

EDIT: Note sure if this fits in the general discussion per se, or warrants another thread, or belongs in Xie's thread, but I wanted to share my thoughts about current and the Lambda of the future.

Lambda

Reward Assessment: B+ Rank. I think this should be A- at best, well it should have a risk portion additive to it as well. The thing about Lambda's rewards, they're very risky if she wants to go for something really damaging. 236C and 236B essentially counter what Lambda wants to do, but she can't do what she wants to do without them, so it's the paradox that is Lambda. They're safe on block at least, but Lambda does not want to be within range of somebody so, yeah. However, if she succeed, suffice it to say Lambda can and will get 4k damage or more without you touching her. She's very sly like that. Best routes for awesome damage would be D-counter hits into 236C, 214D, 236C, 236B, 214A, j.214D RC. Good routes for good damage would be 2B, 3C, 2C CH, 4B, and 6C if you're lucky. And some moderate routes would be throws, her drives, BnB anti-air, BnB ground, those sorts of things. Overall she's good and sly.

Neutral Viability: S- Rank: This is what Lambda excels at and makes everyone, except her, cry for ever challenging her. Her neutral game is so good, well, expect to get many flames and many broken limbs for actually playing how you should. It reminds me of an old western. Where you're out in front of a saloon about the quick draw against a desperado. (Lambda is the desperado in this story.) You really don't know what she will do, she essentially seals your movement if played right and most people don't want her in this position. Neutral is Lambda's game plan and I, personally, think she's the best zoner in the game, because her drives are sick good if used correctly. She has an answer for everything, the only problem is, which is why I think this got a S- instead of an S+ is because if she guesses wrong, well, she's kinda screwed. Either way, this is the place you want to be and where you should continue being if you decide to.

Offensive Viability: A Rank: I think this should maybe be A+, because well, 236D exists and is a powerful, powerful tool. It essentially allows Lambda to safely change up her gameplan if she wants to engage in close-quarters, and bait people into doing what they normally wouldn't. Lambda also has the fastest overheads in the game 4B[2] and j.214D, respectively, so she can mix-up and case some trouble if push comes to shove. And never neglect the shenanigans. 236A, good for a lot of things, cross ups, also hugging, lots and lots of hugging. 236B is a good low attack, does good damage, and can lead into many a combo. 236C is really, well, interesting, not as something as a mix-up, but perhaps a means to bait jump outs or usage of 214D~C to force them to jump and lead them into it unawares. Lambda is good at things like this because she's at a distance and enjoys picking people apart like the sadist/masochist(I really don't know at this point) she is. The reason I would give her an A+ on this is because how sketchy some of her options are. A tricky 4B[2] at the right spacing, j.214D can be difficult to pull off in certain situations, and her shenanigans can be read as easily as her drives. If she has to compete in the air, say she wants to for some reason, her air normals lose out a lot of the time, and are fairly slow. Anyways that's my assessment of it, take it how you will.

Defensive Viability: C+ Rank: Woo, Lambda's best worst stat, or whatever. Yeah, Lambda's defense is bad. So bad everyone, including their grandmother's uncle knows that Lambda's fatal weakness is her lack of a close game. She doesn't have a DP so people aren't wary of her tossing one out. Her normals are easily defeated so she can't poke out. And essentially her whole gameplan comes to a standstill. Yeah, we know all of that. But honestly, I would probably go with B- or B+ for this. The reason being, Lambda is a really mobile character. Not as fast as some of the higher echelon characters, but she's a speedy one. If you play a really good Lambda I think you'll notice it. Her defense is her keepaway game, you gotta catch her or else bad things happen. And aside from that, she also has Calamity and Counter Assault at 50 meter for them to be wary about, so it's not all bad. So basically, if you want to make this not C+, you just have to use her neutral and offensive game to overcome it. Even in the corner, she has options, now it's just a matter of figuring out which wire to cut.

Versatility: B Rank: Don't know what to say about this. She can do different things depending on what's happening. If they're in the air, 2D. If they're lowish and in the air 6D. If they're really close 6A or 2C. And if you're feeling cocky just bring them down with a special Lambda hug. She can play zone or close game if she so chooses. You'd be amazed at how many playstyles there are for a girl with a ponytail blade.

Complexity: B Rank: I'd probably go with B+ or A- for this, my own personal gripe. She's like, you know, easy to learn. So easy anyone can do it. You just press a button and you make combos happen. The gripe I have is that she require a lot of spacing for some of her more delicate mechanics, timing, all that good jazz. Oh and the fact that if someone is in your face you actually have to twiddle your thumbs and hope they drop their controller (don't you sometimes wish that happen). Her combos aren't complex, I think they went up a notch or two in extend because you can only use 236C once, but it isn't as troublesome a work around as other characters. And if you're like me, you end up thinking of fifty combo routes at once and don't do anything. Happens all the time. Derp.

Current Assessment: A- Rank: Yeah, this sounds about right. Lambda has been a fairly balanced character throughout BBCS. Dunno why, but she just is, if you recall her overzealous mega OP version from CT, which I'm sure many of you miss. Not much has changed with her so she has to change her gameplan for those who have changed. I think that's essentially what Lambda is all about. I'm sure that many people can point out the flaws of our beloved murakumo, but she's actually the perfect blend of a fighter. A person with wonderful ranged but craptastic close-range. It balances itself out, in a perfect world I suppose. Anyways, with regard to her MUs and things like that, most have gotten better so even the crappier ones, like Hazama, Bang, Tao, and Carl, will probably feel slightly easier, but yeah, don't expect a free win. I'm pretty sure most Lambda users have come to expect having to work for wins and Extend is no different. In the long run who knows what could happen, but for now Lambda is still as great a zoner as she always has been.

[Psyken]

Can Lambda still do 2149D to get the J.214D effect?

[Overheat]

Yes, she can still TK (Tiger Knee) her Crescent to get it at the lowest height possible.

[someonewhodied]

6D/2D/6A/2C/4B(2)(CH for all of these starters)>236D>236C>662DD>214A>2147D>66A>6C>236C>6DD>2DD>j.5DD>j.2DD>dj.5DD>j.2DD>j.632146D

4-5K is pretty good off of an anti air sword.

[Overheat]

Interesting combo's... The non-Drive ones were possible in CS2, probably the same for the Drive ones. Really hard to hitconfirm IMO, such that a situation where you could realistically do it would mean you could usually do a better punish. Omit the 2DD and I'm sure it'd do a fair bit more damage.

I don't recommend two 236C's in a combo, since its "base" damage is like a normal, yet it prorates very badly. I think it's only useful for corner carry and in a corner combo.

[AchedSphinx]

If anyone has extend can you check this combo out for me. [CH]214D~C > 236C > 5C > 6C > 236D > 214D~C > 214D > 2DD > j.dd > j.2dd > dj > j.dd > j.2dd > 214d. I'm thinking you might need to replace that 2DD with 6C then 6DD and air stuff. Also, how much damage it does if it works too :D

[lilseph]

Grats Overheat on the award

[AchedSphinx]

He deserves it :D

[Legacy Edge]

Goro still playing lambda?

Saw him using makoto recently

[Dagon]

I seem to recall that he's playing Makoto as well, but I'm not sure if it's permanent, or what. At least Yoshiki is pretty good, and is in a decent amount of tourneys.

Edit:

Well, Yoshiki didn't have too good a showing at GodsGarden, getting rolled by Kyaku's Carl, though he is a strong Carl.

[worldjem7]

I just found out that you can hold the C button before you even do the motion for the move to get the C version of specials.

So you can do [C] 214D and you'll get 214D~C.

[BeaverDeity]

I freaking love Extend Lambda. 2147D->RC->5DD->Cavalier->Wheel is so awesome.

[Arcade Fire87]

I haven't played in half a year so I've been shaking off some rust recently.

Does anyone get really discouraged playing Lambda online? After experiencing some offline play, Lambda online and offline is a major difference. You can actually react to people and zone them better. Online it feels like you have to go way more on prediction and less on reaction. This part kinda discouraged me to play online for a while

I mean, hell, the shit Tager gets away with online and offline is fucking huge. I have some pretty mediocre Tagers get away with dumb shit, but I played a really solid Tager, and offline, that matchup is a massive fucking joke, I couldn't believe how different offline it was.

I dunno, I know the solution is, "then just play offline" but still...Lambda feels so crippled online (Probably like many other characters)