Smasher turned...Blazer?

[General Heinz]

The bar was set so high with Melee but after Brawl came out the bar just dropped. Now the true smashers are stuck with Melee, or even SSB64 for the bold. Some of the Brawl fanhacks seemed interesting but I don't think anything will ever truly compare to what SSB:M is.

Nintendo deliberately tried to take the competitive aspect out of the series but it failed, the tourney scene is huge while the gameplay is obviously unfit for a tourney setting. SSBB is probably as popular as SF now, because low-tier fighting games are popular in America... if anyone would call Brawl a fighter that is... who knows, maybe things will pick up now that MK is banned, but I'm still not interested because of the moon gravity and overall dumbed-down slow feeling I get when playing or watching Brawl. SSB:M will always be great, fast paced fun. If only Nintendo could realize that most people who buy games aren't children - they forgot about all of the fans who already grew up, and solely focus on the youth market. So much untapped potential, damn it.

On another note, I hate when people compare BlazBlue to Brawl. Seriously, Brawl is a complete trainwreck. I can understand thinking that BB is not a worthy sequel to GG, but it's still a damn good game with a lot of depth. I know the characters aren't as cool, and the combos aren't as piss hard, but there is definitely a character for everyone and good times to be had. Except for Tager.

Yeah, I hate that part too--the "moon gravity," as you so appropriately put it. Sure there were floaty characters in Melee, but due to the change in mechanics (like being able to air dodge whenever the fuck you feel like), you're almost never in a position where you have to tech, and if you try to, you'll probably air dodge. And in most situations since characters are so floaty you might as well jump out anyway. Plus, when Fox is considered floaty there has to be something wrong.

I share basically all your most vehement opinions about Brawl, I just try to leave people their game if they want to play it I guess XD I dunno. The techniques they added don't really outweigh the techniques they removed in my opinion.

I guess in some ways I have to automatically hate Brawl because CF got so disgustingly nerfed, but then again it wasn't just my character that that happened to--a lot of high-tier characters in Melee are just straight garbage in Brawl. CF, Fox, Sheik, Peach, Jiggs--the list goes on. In fact basically the only high-tier that didn't get nerfed was Falco apparently, but his play-style became completely different.

I guess what mostly pisses me off is it really does seem like Nintendo has more interest in appealing to their stupid-ass "casual fans" when in doing so they betray much of their fanbase. This isn't by any means a smash-only complaint, either--a lot of franchises have just been bastardized now (like fucking Star Fox--and now they rerelease SF64 in "STUNNING 3D" 14 years later to make a few more bucks on it?). Maybe that's why I don't put much stock into Brawl. Then again, no one cared what Nintendo's original intent was with Melee when they decided they wanted to play it competitively. So I dunno.

Do you think the tier list will change again after the MK ban takes effect, Shazam?

[Shazam]

Many good reasons why to play Melee over Brawl, lol. Like I said, other people can enjoy the game but guys like us can't because I guess we're "spoiled" with how good Melee is. Plus the character changes so directly effecting us. My buddy plays Fox and Shiek and he got totally screwed over with what happened in Brawl, even though he isn't nearly as upset with the game mechanic changes as I am. Falco is playable still but I just think his redesign and new moves are ridiculous. Marth is also a high tier who didn't get significantly nerfed, but they changed his specials, and Marth is not fun when you can't wavedash.

I just haven't properly ranted about Brawl before, sorry if anyone took what I said too seriously or whatever, but I don't feel like keeping the hate going at this point. Feel free to throw in your 2 cents Vibe, but i'll bottle the Brawl hate back up, after all we're not even posting on a Smash forum XD

I really think there's a ton of untapped potential with deeper and darker Nintendo games. On another forum one suggested a modern F-Zero with 16 player online, and how fun does that sound? Maybe they could finally make a truly dark Zelda, or as you suggested Star Fox. It is funny that they're re-releasing 10+ year old games to make a few bucks. Nintendo in general is on the down and out, like their pals over at Capcom, smh. The Wii and it's massive but mostly bad library prove my point.

Anyone who knows the Smash mechanics knows that everything about Metaknight is a nightmare - Nearly infinite jumps, multilpe recovery options, a Marth like moveset, and a few other tricks on the side. It only takes one montage video to see what kind of shit MK can pull. Thank god they finally got together and decided to ban him, everything about him is game breaking. That said, no I don't think the tier list will change too much, maybe the lower tiers yeah, but characters like Snake, Wario, Falco, and Marth will still dominate a majority of the tourneys.

edit: I also came up with a new thread title, Smasher turned air dasher. lolz

[Rydian]

you say the bar was set too high with melee. try playing Smash64 XD i love that game but damn if it isn't a headache :P

i can understand your frustrations with brawl however i look at the slow game play as another factor. it makes rush down harder and you effectively need better planning. the air dodging in melee was broken and wave dashing was a quick fix that was designed to stop problems when air dashing into the floor

imo air dodging is broken no matter how you look at it, but both games would be so different without it

Also platinum is too much fun in BB :p

[A.X.I.S.]

I wanna say on the record that smash was always intended to be a casual game.

The creator had no intention of making the game go beyond that, it was the hardcore players who decided that.

With that said brawl is fun if you never played melee or are a kid below the age of 15.

Melee is downright amazing though.

[Shazam]

you say the bar was set too high with melee. try playing Smash64 XD i love that game but damn if it isn't a headache :P

i can understand your frustrations with brawl however i look at the slow game play as another factor. it makes rush down harder and you effectively need better planning. the air dodging in melee was broken and wave dashing was a quick fix that was designed to stop problems when air dashing into the floor

imo air dodging is broken no matter how you look at it, but both games would be so different without it

Also platinum is too much fun in BB :p

I love Smash 64, I've had it since I was a kid and remember the commercials for it back in the day. It's got dashdancing, L-cancels, and holy shit at Isai's Ness. Melee just does everything perfect imo. I really don't think that air dodging is broken, but I don't like how it works in Brawl. Fair point that it makes rushdown harder, but then you have to deal with people who play a turtling Snake. That does not sound like fun to me. Yes, Platinum is great. I prefer Hazama though obviously.

I wanna say on the record that smash was always intended to be a casual game.

The creator had no intention of making the game go beyond that, it was the hardcore players who decided that.

With that said brawl is fun if you never played melee or are a kid below the age of 15.

Melee is downright amazing though.

Smash 64 definitely was intended for a casual audience, but i'm not sure about Melee. SSBM quickly became a popular tournament game both in Japan and America. However for some reason Sakurai ended up pissed off enough about that to make Brawl. It's still hard to wrap my head around it, Nintendo must think that competition is evil. I feel like the chances for the next SSB game being epic are really damn low.

[mAc Chaos]

They've been like that with all their games, dumbing them down. Even the original Mario Party was way more cutthroat than the sequels.

[A.X.I.S.]

Smash 64 definitely was intended for a casual audience, but i'm not sure about Melee. SSBM quickly became a popular tournament game both in Japan and America. However for some reason Sakurai ended up pissed off enough about that to make Brawl. It's still hard to wrap my head around it, Nintendo must think that competition is evil. I feel like the chances for the next SSB game being epic are really damn low.

SSBM was meant to be a far superior game to the original so they boosted everything.

SSBM will be the best smash period.

FYI Nintendo is meant to be family friendly...competitive fighters don't bring fun for the whole family does it?

This makes me sad.

[Shazam]

Nintendo isn't family friendly though, Nintendo is kiddy friendly and soccer mom friendly. They've forgotten about the young adults who can buy M+ games and want something a little more fast paced. Plus nobody says that little kids/soccer moms can't play fighting games at a competitive level, lol.

Yeah i'm sad too. Also mad. At least we have the glorious wonders of Ye olde Blaz to turn to.

[Manta]

You only have to look at how badly the computer cheats in Nintendo's other games to see where the emphasis lies in the game's design.

[mAc Chaos]

Screw over the winner. :3

[LuminAbyss]

>Nintendo is family friendly

>Mario Party series

I don't think a company that makes a game that makes you want to murder your closest friends and family members in cold blood can be called family friendly man.

I know the truth.

[Manta]

That's like saying Monopoly is family friendly. Also causes wanton murder.

[Rydian]

Mario party needs tournaments

[General Heinz]

I fucking hate Mario Party. And Mario Kart. Blue shells burn in hell.

[Starlight777]

I remember Mario Party. Sweet, sweet Mario Party. Every time I got far ahead of my friends I would land on chance time and swap my stars with one of the losers. I FUCKING HATED THAT!

And Heinz I feel your pain about the blue shells. Mario Kari Wii's AI makes me wanna disembowel a puppy.

[Vibe]

My post comparing Melee and Brawl is definitely opinion, just stated as fact. My main reason for not liking Brawl is that it's not another Melee, and anyone who has seen the gameplay of both games can see "why". I can't stand this game that's supposed to still be Smash - the first 'fighter' I ever cared about and have had a ton of fun with - but I can't do simple things like a wavedash or an L-cancel. Lack of hit stun = lack of combos. Tripping, jesus, what the hell Nintendo?. The air dodge system is bad, the character redesigns are bad (Falco and Ganon, gross... not to mention poor Captain Falcon,) and just plain and simply MK. Even Snake's presence doesn't make up for what Brawl did to the SSB series, and as far as i'm concerned the move that Nintendo made with that game might as well have put a stake in the heart of Melee and a very large portion of Melee fans.

That said, as much as me and all the other tech savvy Meleefags can piss on it and hate life, it doesn't mean that Brawl can't be enjoyed. You could say guys like me are living in the past and maybe we're upset for no reason but you have to look at it from our perspective too, I was hype for the release of Brawl for years, I finally got a Wii and now have no reason to play it all the time. There's also the fact that playing Brawl can mess up your habits in Melee. So yeah, not saying that you can't have fun with your game Vibe, just saying that I can't. As much as I love SSB and SSBM I just want to pull my hair out whenever I see Brawl.

Your scene might not be SF sized, but I know you're double to triple the amount of active Melee players, so at least be glad that a lot of people are still interested in Brawl. I feel your pain though, amazing games with small scenes are very depressing. Most BB tourneys or events are a cool hour drive away from me.

I can understand personal issues with brawl, especially coming from melee. There's no 2 ways about it competitive brawl is campy. Even playing Marth vs some Matchups requires a lot of being patience and standing there until an opportunity presents itself.

Only thing I dislike is when people try to make factual statements about brawl, because 9/10 times, it's just blatantly wrong, which is why our game is so misunderstood. :c