[CSE] Ragna vs Noel

[KayEff]

1) My friend either backdashes or air dashes straight to me with what seems to be her 5c?(She spins around and shoots some bursts of fire from her gun, I know it's not revolver blast, because she doesn't say anything.)

that move's j.C. if you notice your friend air dashing into you and using that move, you can easily react to the move and air throw him out of it. i wouldn't try and anti-air her, as noel has j.D, which flat out beats out any anti-air attempts.

So if he backdashes I try to run up and 5b him, only to get beat out by his 5b, I checked the frame data, and my 5b starts up in 8 frames and is active on the 8th frame. His 5b starts up in 10 frames and is active on the 8th frame. Now then, the problem is, I always end up getting hit with a counter hit and usually eat about 3k midscreen/carried to the corner. In cases like this, do I forgo trying to start up with dash 5b and just go dash 5c? I've noticed that if I delay my 5b by 1 ~ 10 frames I can beat him with my 5b and get the usual 5b, 5c, 214a, 214d.

i wouldn't start the match off with 5B. in my opinion, i would also probably keep my footsies in moderation.

as to explain the reason for why you get hit out of your 5B, take a look at this image. you'll notice that there's a spot on noel's hitbox that can hit the person without getting hit herself (area with only the red hitbox). whereas with ragna's hitbox, there's a large area where you cannot hit the opponent, but the opponent can hit you cleanly (area with only the blue hitbox). at this range, you can see that noel's 5B will beat out ragna's 5B.

When he air dashes I usually just block the air dash 5c and let him do his thing. I'm uncertain if I should C Inferno Divider him or attempt to do 6a and combo him.

you should never let noel get momentum of the match. as a matter of fact, you shouldn't let anyone get momentum of the match. ever. this is where most ragna players fall short in matches.

as previously mentioned, if you see him do airdash > j.C, air throw him. the only combo option noel can do off of a CH j.C is j.D afterwards, but the option itself is risky, so most people won't try and do that. thus, there's not much risk from trying to airthrow her out of j.C.

course it's a different story if she uses revolver blast. (though i wouldn't know why your friend would use that)

Now after he 5c's me. He usually lands and starts doing a good bit of 2a and I can't 2a him back because I'm in block stun. Then he does that overhead into slide and combos me for 3 ~4k. Now I think I can just DP him out of it, but once again, I'm scared to do so. Now also he throws me a lot in the corner, matter of fact thats how most of it goes, I get put into the corner and he throws me and gets a good bit of damage of it and I'm usually forced to burst.

learn to block. noel's mixup isn't really that hard to see, albeit a few moves (like 214A). blocking will reduce the number of options that the opponent has, and it will help you in the long run when the opponent ends up doing something stupid (for example, using noel's 3C in a blockstring).

I'm never close enough to connect with 5b, 6a to start combo, it's normally 5b,5c,214a,214d and then I put him in the corner. So what exactly am I doing wrong and what do I need to do to correct it?

you shouldn't ever use 5B > 6A to try and hit confirm. the mixup off of 6A on block is incredibly weak and predictable. the only time you should confirm to 5B > 6A is if you hit the opponent with a j.C or j.B. against noel however, you should never do that, as her 4D is her go-to anti-air that not only has a shitton of invincibility frames, but also nets her a shit ton of damage, especially off of fatal counter. you're better off using 5B > 5C > 3C > 623D > stuff than 5B > 6A. hell, 5B > 5C > 214A > 214D isn't a bad option either.

[Dont_Explain]

1) My friend either backdashes or air dashes straight to me with what seems to be her 5c?(She spins around and shoots some bursts of fire from her gun, I know it's not revolver blast, because she doesn't say anything.)

So if he backdashes I try to run up and 5b him, only to get beat out by his 5b, I checked the frame data, and my 5b starts up in 8 frames and is active on the 8th frame. His 5b starts up in 10 frames and is active on the 8th frame. Now then, the problem is, I always end up getting hit with a counter hit and usually eat about 3k midscreen/carried to the corner. In cases like this, do I forgo trying to start up with dash 5b and just go dash 5c? I've noticed that if I delay my 5b by 1 ~ 10 frames I can beat him with my 5b and get the usual 5b, 5c, 214a, 214d.

Do not feel like you have to immediately go after him and chase the backdash. Noel vs Ragna is pretty lame matchup to me. You are mostly waiting for her to do something dumb and punish. I personally start with a slightly delayed 2B. it beats her 3C and will stop her if she just runs at you. also it recovers much faster if it whiffs compared to 5C making it a safer option.

When he air dashes I usually just block the air dash 5c and let him do his thing. I'm uncertain if I should C Inferno Divider him or attempt to do 6a and combo him.

6A them. You said it yourself, you can combo him afterwards. Don't pass up free damage (read below though). Plus if he ended up barrier blocking you would be fucked if you did C ID.

that move's j.C. if you notice your friend air dashing into you and using that move, you can easily react to the move and air throw him out of it. i wouldn't try and anti-air her, as noel has j.D, which flat out beats out any anti-air attempts.

This is true. you can't just use 6A and win. If you block the j.D, you get a free punish though.

Now after he 5c's me. He usually lands and starts doing a good bit of 2a and I can't 2a him back because I'm in block stun. Then he does that overhead into slide and combos me for 3 ~4k. Now I think I can just DP him out of it, but once again, I'm scared to do so. Now also he throws me a lot in the corner, matter of fact thats how most of it goes, I get put into the corner and he throws me and gets a good bit of damage of it and I'm usually forced to burst.

You can DP him out of his overhead (And damn near everything else in the game) so if you feel like he's gonna do an overhead, or if you just don't want him near you DP him. He'll eventually start to bait it and that's when you just 2A and start your own pressure/get out of there. More or less you want them scared so you can get out of pressure just with fear of the DP, not even having to use it.

Throws you just have to learn how to tech them. Not much I can do about that. Try to notice patterns both for when he overheads and throws. You'll react better when you anticipate them coming.

I'm never close enough to connect with 5b, 6a to start combo, it's normally 5b,5c,214a,214d and then I put him in the corner. So what exactly am I doing wrong and what do I need to do to correct it?

Get balls deep on that mofo lol. Seriously, you just need to be closer to him. If possible try to use 5B > 5C > D ID (623D) to combo midscreen cause you get to stay close and mix him up.

[KayEff]

j.D is unsafe to the point where you can hit her out of the air using 5B on block (5C if she's high enough)

[Dont_Explain]

j.D is unsafe to the point where you can hit her out of the air using 5B on block (5C if she's high enough)

Yeah just went to training, she can't do shit afterwards.

[Super Phoenix]

So at the start of the match, if he backdashes, I just have to let him be? Like someone said above, I feel like I DO have to chase that backdash simply because I don't want him to start up his pressure.

As for 5b,6a. How else am I ever going to get my corner damage?

Because most of the match takes place in the corner, usually I put him in there or he puts me in there. I've learned that he doesn't know how to deal with 5b,5c, Dead Spike, I've guard broken him NUMEROUS times in the corner with that. He started to barrier block it but I've still forced him to burst or try to reversal me out the corner.

So the last few things that bug are this:

How do I shift momentum back to my side if I'm being too passive?

I've tried to go for my 6b,3c,6c combo and he usually stand blocks it OR he throws me out the 6b. Usually I can connect with 5b,5c,hell's fang+follow up. And he ends up in the corner, and he techrolls behind me. Can I do something like 2b, or deadspike to catch that tech? Cause once he's in the corner I usually try to do 6b, or 2b and start a combo.

[KayEff]

it's honestly better to wait it out than trying to close in whenever. laming it out until your friend does something stupid is a lot less riskier than trying to close in without thought. just shows poor neutral ability. throwing footsies at mid-range is alright, since you can then use the momentum from a blocked footsie to close in, but you shouldn't try to approach the opponent without first knowing his tendencies. this is especially important when playing against noel.

for corner damage, it depends on whether the opponent is crouching or standing. regardless of how the opponent's situated, 5B > 5C is great for hitconfirms. you can cancel 5C into 6C if the opponent is crouching, and you can cancel into 3C > D inferno divider on standing.

you should try and break your habit of doing 5B > 5C > dead spike. not only is it easy to disrespect (your friend can just jump over the projectile), but it also provides weak mixup and pressure. you have better options.

if you see your friend throwing you out of 6B, you can start using frame traps. if your friend is throwing you out of something like 2A > 6B, you can use something along the lines of 2A > 2C to force him to respect your pressure. 2A > 2C, 2B > 2C, 2C > 5C, and 5B > 2C are great frame traps to keep in mind.

as for forward rolls, 2B's excellent for hitting them out. use 2B > 5B; it's not only great for hitconfirming, but also prevents you from being whiff punished, especially given how quick 2B's recovery is.

[Dont_Explain]

So at the start of the match, if he backdashes, I just have to let him be? Like someone said above, I feel like I DO have to chase that backdash simply because I don't want him to start up his pressure.

It's just not worth it to chase him imo. If you think he backdashes too much then go for it, but if you eat a combo that's on you.

As for 5b,6a. How else am I ever going to get my corner damage?

You can use throws and get about 3.5k in the corner. 6B is of course good cause it lets you combo into 6C on someone crouching (6B>5C>6C>stuff) and get 4k. Gauntlet Hades gets a bit over 3k in the corner. and if you hit him with something random you can either do Inferno Divider wallbounce combos or combo into Hell's Fang > Tsuika (The followup after Hell's Fang) and then Rapid into more stuff (depends on what move you started with and moves before Hell's Fang > Tsuika)

How do I shift momentum back to my side if I'm being too passive?

Use a combination of your DP, barrier to push him away, backdashing away, and of course good blocking.

I've tried to go for my 6b,3c,6c combo and he usually stand blocks it OR he throws me out the 6b. Usually I can connect with 5b,5c,hell's fang+follow up. And he ends up in the corner, and he techrolls behind me. Can I do something like 2b, or deadspike to catch that tech? Cause once he's in the corner I usually try to do 6b, or 2b and start a combo.

you can can just space yourself so he cant throw you out of your 6B, but don't go too far or you wont be able to hit with both hits of 6C. You can also time it where he wont have time to wakeup throw you (do a "meaty" attack on his wakeup). Or just frame trap him like Kayeff said. Kay already told you about 2B, so yeah.

Just play smart, knock him into the corner, and go from there.

[VR-Raiden]

I forgot to check j.D, added punishes for that.

[Cheefoo]

Help me... I'm getting majorly scrubbed out by Netplay Noels. Between 2D and 4D mashing, I have no opportunity to attack them on wakeup. Not to mention they get sooo much damage off of it. Noel just gets sooo much damage off of everything. These combos are putting me to sleep.

It was mentioned before that 6C and 5D stuff Noel's drives, but if I dare whiff due to late teching or rolling (which these netplayers seem to love doing) I'm pretty much boned.

Mashing DP during her dive chains seems like a good idea, right? It has lots of gaps, but what if she does her 214D crossup and ID wiffs? Is it worth the risk?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Help me... I'm getting majorly scrubbed out by Netplay Noels. Between 2D and 4D mashing, I have no opportunity to attack them on wakeup. Not to mention they get sooo much damage off of it. Noel just gets sooo much damage off of everything. These combos are putting me to sleep.

It was mentioned before that 6C and 5D stuff Noel's drives, but if I dare whiff due to late teching or rolling (which these netplayers seem to love doing) I'm pretty much boned.

Mashing DP during her dive chains seems like a good idea, right? It has lots of gaps, but what if she does her 214D crossup and ID wiffs? Is it worth the risk?

Most Noel's approach from either the air, so if so DP their shit. If they come at you with just a drive, 5D their shit. My advice is to keep the pressure on them, most Scrub Noels will drive spam when their desperate, so just block and punish.

[MashThat5A]

You can do 5D on reaction to their neutral tech.

Also, 5D will lose horribly to drives if you do it on reaction. Just play patiently.