[CSE] Ragna vs Taokaka

[KayEff]

Discuss the Ragna vs. Taokaka matchup here.

[VR-Raiden]

Block Punishes vs Taokaka:

Guaranteed:

236CC (downswing > upswing)

- dash 5A (also CH out of another downswing attempt)

- IB > (dash) 5B (also CH out of another downswing attempt)

Hexa Edge

- dash FC 2C

- During flash BK > FC 2C

- Before last hit BK > FC 2C

Imma Beat The Crap Outta You

- in air, During flash ID©

- on ground, crouch > FC 2C

- on ground, During flash BK > FC 2C

Almost Becoming Two

- (dash) 5B

Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss.

[floatwater]

Dem mix-ups. do i just sit and block till i have an advantage to 5A her out or 5B?

EDIT: OK so i can't punish much then what DO i do? she's in the air ALL the time. and her 2B stops everything i do mid block string.

[Dont_Explain]

THIS WILL BE ORGANIZED LATER

A lot of fighting Tao for me seems to be just getting her off you and getting momentum from there. The rest is just keeping her pinned down.

I don't really go in throwing a lot of hitboxes out cause if you whiff stuff it only makes it that much easier for her to hit you. If you have to use any move though j.D is pretty nice cause it covers your face. Just don't go nuts with it cause a decent Tao isn't gonna run into that. It's more of a tool you use to make sure they aren't always pouncing on you.

Same goes for 6A. It's AA, but do you really wanna keep whiffing it? I'm not saying don't use it, but it seems fairly easy for her to bait this out.

Try to jump up and catch her mid pressure with an air throw or j.A if you think she is gonna do some crossover shenanigans. Get her knocked down and keep her down like I mentioned before. She dies pretty quickly thankfully, but she will probably try to wakeup Hexa Edge if she ever gets the chance. I wouldn't say go out of your way to bait it, especially since it's hard to keep her pinned down and giving up pressure to bait things sucks, but baiting it more or less means you win unless she decides to wakeup gold burst. Abuse her whenever possible. Backdash seems pretty damn good, so 5B on her wakeup wouldn't be a bad idea.

On her wakeup you should actually use j.B as her 2A would normally go under other jump ins.

Throws aren't a bad idea, but if she breaks it expect some backdashing or immediate aerial movement of some kind. Don't have a definite answer for when she goes to the air(I'll see if I can somehow learn a small bit of Tao and how air stuff works), but chase after if you think she will backdash. I almost wanna say wait and have a 6A ready if you think she will go to the air after a throw.

Again, I don't know much Tao and haven't fought her enough, but I can't think of any attacks that would stop us from pressing buttons. She is mostly just running away trying to get in on her terms.

I'll have to find Tao vs Ragna vids and do research. This will get better.

[toanenadiz]

If she does Cat Spirit 1 to end pressure (236A) it's -6. Don't let her continue pressure after this. jump away, or jump forward and j.A. I imagine most Taos will backdash after this or jump away. If they jump you should catch them easily with 5B, but whenever I get a chance I see if you catch the backdash, or you need to do something else.

Tao can cancel 236A into her drives so you have to be wary about that.

[Dont_Explain]

Thanks for that Toan. Like I said I'm gonna have to learn some stuff about Tao in order to do this so any help is appreciated. This will be a nice project to keep me busy.

[XDest]

236A isn't really for blockstrings (although a lot of Taos get into a bad habit of doing that), but for padding out some standing combos with damage before possibly resetting.

Some things you actually have to worry about up close:

- C drive cancels: they're +2, and she can backdash pretty safely after them. But she's too high to j.A directly, and everything she does from there is aerial. But a Tao player knows all that and can bait AA with an air dash back or extra jump, be careful.

- 5B: It's -1, and 6 frames. It can go into itself or 2A pretty tightly unless you're mashing, and can also be jump canceled, or gatling into 2B/5C.

- 6B: It's +2, and is in the air from frame 13 (so in some setups, can beat grabs), and invincible to lows from frame 1. But it is on the slower side of the overheads (26 frame startup).

- A drive cancel on hit: Leaves her at +, even though it's -2 on block. Don't mash unless it's ID. Of course, the Tao player still knows that, and this is one of the more common places to bait it.

- 2B: It slides in, and has a pretty low hurtbox, but large hitbox. It's really one of her best moves in general.

- j.2B/j.B -> j.A mash fuzzies.

- j.2B crossup

- 214D crossups

- She can catch you offguard with some green grabs after B cancels, 2B, or stagger 5B/2A pressure. A Tao player might also switch that green grab with a 6B, or another attack to keep you honest.

Overall, Tao's pressure and mixup isn't really something to worry about that much, especially for a character with a DP. You have to worry a lot more about her neutral game imo.

[KayEff]

also, B cancel on block is -5. most good tao players probably won't use it in blockstrings, but it might happen once in a while. usually means a free 2A or 5B. 5A if you want the guaranteed punish.

[XDest]

6D that 2A mash that Tao is apparently known for (or is it 2B?). You'll jump over it and land a nice combo, especially in the corner.

imo, low j.B for Ragna has always been a really good answer to keep any of my 2A mashing in check. A lot of Taokaka players use it during an opponent's jump ins, but it won't beat moves like Ragna's j.B. Now if they're doing it during your pressure, go ahead and 6D, but be aware that unlike Tao's 6B its low invincibility starts at frame 10. And of course a move that slow can easily be mashed out of by anything else, like Tao's 5B or 6A.

Ragna's 6A is really good for beating out misplaced j.4D and low j.D from Taokaka (Tao's drives have huge hurtboxes, 6A has a pretty nice hitbox itself). Be wary of a well timed j.2B in the recovery of your 6A though, it is still possible.

Wait for crossup and 6A: I don't really try this too often unless they were literally doing the same strings and I was ready for the crossup.

I've always thought Taokaka's 2D~B was a generally bad crossup option, 214D (with optional dashes/jumps) and ambiguous j.2B crossups are a bit more effective. 214D spaced correctly can actually evade ID too, watch out.

Also, I don't know if this is still possible, but I don't think you even need IB to ID between 236AxN on block. It's just not a good option in general for a Taokaka to use in a blockstring.

[Dont_Explain]

236A isn't really for blockstrings (although a lot of Taos get into a bad habit of doing that), but for padding out some standing combos with damage before possibly resetting.

I guess cause it was the only attack in mind that you can see and get ready to react to drive followups I ended up using it. But pointing that out I guess that's why I don't see it as often, if at all......I almost feel like that Cat Spirit stuff is kinda pointless now.

I guess I could just rename that section "Dealing with Drives" and just remove the 236A at the beginning of each string. What I listed should still work even if she uses other attacks right?

Overall, Tao's pressure and mixup isn't really something to worry about that much, especially for a character with a DP. You have to worry a lot more about her neutral game imo.

I was eventually going to have to get someone from the Tao forums/find a thread so maybe it would be easier to have an idea of where she will go, if that's even possible.

This is WAY harder than I thought it would be.

[XDest]

I guess I could just rename that section "Dealing with Drives" and just remove the 236A at the beginning of each string. What I listed should still work even if she uses other attacks right?

Not that helpful unfortunately.

5D~B should not be used on block, and neither should 2D~B really. 2D~B is helpful at a closer neutral, but not while doing a blockstring.

5D~C->j.C is only one option off C cancel. She's at +2 on block and has 2 jumps, 2 air dashes left.

Blockstring->4D is never used.

I was eventually going to have to get someone from the Tao forums/find a thread so maybe it would be easier to have an idea of where she will go, if that's even possible.

I'd say this might be on a player-to-player basis, I don't see that many Taokaka players that really use the exact same movement/neutral options. But learn all of those options, and find things that work. This is where a Taokaka player is going to beat you, so I suggest researching further into it.

[floatwater]

I was thinking it was more "knowing the player better" at least with me

[Yggjrasil]

5B is pretty amazing, doncha think?

[XDest]

5B is pretty amazing, doncha think?

I think the Tao ended up mashing 2A/2B, since that was a counter hit. If he would have stayed in crawl, it would have easily went under 5B. But something like 2A's hurtbox is no where near as low as crawl's.