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KayEff

[CSE] Ragna vs Bang

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Don't suppose anyone could give me some advice for this matchup? getting around his projectiles and his command blocks are getting annoying, online at least

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Dropping this here, since it pretty much still applies in CSEX.

Key Frame Data for Bang Pressure

5A - 6 frame startup - 0 on block (jc on block)

2A - 8 frame startup - -2 on block

6A - 17 frame startup - +1 on block (jc on block)

5B - 10 frame startup - -2 on block

2B - 13 frame startup - -6 on block (jc on block)

2C - 13 frame startup - -4 on block

5C - 18 frame startup (hits overhead on frame 24) - -8 on block (jc on block)

TK Dnails - 9 frame startup (+ 4 frames of jump startup) - +6 on block

623B - 16 frame startup - -7 on block

This is a guide to help defend againist Bang's standard ground pressure as Ragna.

Most Bang players will try to approach on the ground with 5A and 5B. A well timed 5B will beat both and lead into HF ender. If you feel that your ground footsies are superior to the Bang player, try getting even closer with 5B so that you can score a good combo with proper confirm. Ragna's 2B will go under both Bang's 5A and 5B, so it is good at for ground footsies as well. Bang's 2B, at 13 frames, is much slower than Ragna's 5B/2B, but it hits to the ground, and Bang's hitbox retracts really fast. 5C is really risky to use as a poke vs Bang, so its much safer to go with 5B. Bang's reward on standing CH 5B is higher than Ragna's, so don't recklessly approach him.

Assuming the Bang player gets in at some point, you have to figure out how to deal with his pressure. From Bang's 5A, he has a couple of choices. He can do 5A x N for stagger pressure, 5A 2A to keep you honest on defense, 5A 6A to try to ghetto reset pressure, or 5A 5B for the most standard of play. If you can iB Bang's 5A properly, it really limits his options to 5A 2A and 5A 5B. Bang's 5A does not chain into itself, so he must recover and do it again if he chooses to do so. The two major ways of dealing with 5A x N and 5A 6A pressure are using barrier defense to push him out really fast or IBing 5A or 6A and hitting 2A after it. Bang's main options of stopping you from doing 2A after IBing 6A are TK Dnails or 2C. TK Dnails have really awful proration, and 2C is techable so Bang doesn't get anything other than an unconfirmable 623B. If the Bang player is uses 5A 5C, you should hit him out of it via 2A or Inferno Divider. Bang's 5A is the main source of grab/command grab attempts. If you sense a small pause after Bang's 5A, you should backdash or jump if you think the command grab is coming. The best way to stop command grab attemps are with barrier or poking out with 2A.

After Bang gets to 5B, this is where is becomes complicated. Bang's 5B is his only useful normal that he is able to late chain with, and it has enough blockstun to create frametraps. However, the hitstop of the move is big enough where that it obvious If the Bang player didn't chain into another normal, which is a good chance to take pressure via 2A. However, assuming the Bang player decides to use his 5B, his main options are 5B 6A, 5B 5C, 5B 2B, and 5B 2C. 5B 6A is useful for resetting pressure only if the Bang player is really close, and can be stopped by barriering 5B. If Bang chains into any of his normals off of 5B, it is either gapless or auto frame trap. 5B 5C is the mash safe blockstring into overhead (still loses to Inferno Divider). If he uses this string, he will be pushed out too far to the point that he would barely be able to combo off overhead (which leads into nonexistant damage midscreen). 5B 2C is to keep you honest in the blockstring (should be blocking low and reacting high) but leaves Bang in a bad spot, so it won't be used often. 5B 2B is the most commonly used string that allows him to go to Dnails. The best way to deal with 5B in general is by barriering the move to limit his options after it.

Bang's 2A is actually kinda bad in pressure. Usually, most Bang players will continue to 5B after 5A 2A, 5A 2AA, 2A, or 2AA (can gatling 2A twice on hit or block) due to the move being negative on block. For some reason, it is pretty easy to react to Bang's 2A's recovery, so it is really bad for resetting pressure. It is a 8 frame low, and it usually for keeping the opponent honest on their blocking. Bang's 2A is level 0, so command grab attempts will most likely come off of this move occasionally. If you barrier Bang's 2A, he cannot command grab you after it unless he does a purple one, or does it really close to you. Normal grab attempts for Bang are strong off of this normal.

Bang's 6A is really good on paper, but is generally only okay in actual functionality. His main options off 6A are reset into 5A pressure, gatling into 2C or jump cancel into TK Dnails. Bang's 6A is +1 on block, so it is ESSENTIAL that you MUST IB this move. If there is any move in Bang's pressure that you must IB, it is this one. iBing 6A shuts down Bang's realistic options because 6A 2C has to be done relatively fast, and 6A TK Dnails is only to call out 2A mash (with very low reward). If Bang does 6A and doesn't gatling into 2C immediately, the best option after INSTANT BLOCKING 6A is to 2A and start pressure. Avoid barriering this move unless you must, it is pretty much a pressure ender if you can consistently instant block.

Bang's 2B is mainly used for gatling into 2C for end of blockstring or going into TK Dnails. If you barrier 2B 2C, Bang can't do anything to keep you in blockstun after that unless he rapid cancels. 2C is -4 on block, so it is the realistic end of his pressure. TK Dnails are +6, but we'll get to how to dealing with them in a second. You can Inferno Divider through the TK Dnails if you know they are coming.

Bang's 2C is Bang's second low attack, which leads into no damage due to the move being techable. Bang can connect 623B if he does it without confirming if 2C hits, so it is a pretty risky thing to do. Usually the end of Bang's pressure unless he feels like pushing his luck. This is another move that you should IB as well. If you do, it greatly limits Bang's options and allows you to punish with Inferno Divider if close up (safe to do unless they RC) or 2A, which is risky due to the fact that Bang can still technically gatling into 2C.

Bang's 623B is usually for only frame trapping, and taking away a primer. It is unsafe on block and should be punish with 5B on instant block. You can get a 2A on normal block if you are close enough. This is an important move to instant block. Bang can late chain into 623B from 2C late to increase to pushback to prevent a punish from occuring. If you IB Bang's 2C, the fastest 623B possible is the only way to catch a 2A punish of 2C, which means you should wait a quick second before pulling the trigger on 2A. Bang's damage off FC 623B is under 3k without meter, even in the corner. Overall a very risky move to use in Bang's pressure.

Bang's 5C is overhead and has gatlings into 6A, 2C, 5D, and 623B. 5D and 623B are punishable on block by Inferno Divider and 2A, so they really shouldn't be using these gatlings on block. 5D is - 15, so you can actually get a really good punish if Bang uses that move on block. He can gatling 5D into 623B, but it ends up leaving him at -7 and -10 if you instant block it. He can only do 5C 6A super close to the opponent, and it doesn't even work if you barrier him out (6A wiffs unless you are standing pretty much on each other). 5C 2C is pretty useless on block, so the Bang player will most likely jump/instant air dash or do TK Dnails.

Tiger Knee D-Nails are Bang's most useful tool for resetting pressure. They are supposed to be really good, and they cost 3 nails so they end up being +6. There are a couple things you can do about them. You can instant block them and jump or backdash if the Bang player isn't right next to you. You can Inferno Divider through them if you are sure that they are coming and you are in range. If Bang is really close to you, you just have to let him continue his pressure. If Bang is greater than a character's length away, you can IB the D-Nails and 2A him out of his 5A. There is one thing that prevents this from always happening. Sometimes, one of the Dnails will bounce on the ground much later than the other two, and hit you on block later. This means that the TK Dnails have become much more than +6 on block, so do not do anything if this happens. You can't really stop this from happening, and it kinda sucks when it does. Other than that, Bang is using alot of resources to use TK Dnails, so its supposed to be his move to get free pressure.

TL DR VERSION: BARRIER 5A/5B/2A/2B/5C INSTANT BLOCK 6A/2C/623B and TK DNAILS ARE STRONG.

(I wrote this pretty late so sorry for any grammar errors :( )

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About punishing Ashura super (explode one).

Since it's normally only -7, you can only get 2A/5A and sometimes you'll get pushed out too far and have to dash. On IB you can get a dash 5B. But here' a nifty way of punishing it a lot harder that could work if the Bang player doesn't know about it.

If you ID© during the super flash, it will clash with his super. After the clash, you can FC 2C if bang doesn't cancel to something himself.

I'm gonna start doing this for every character, here's a list of block punishes for this match up. Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss.

Block Punishes vs Bang:

Guaranteed:

3C

- 5B crouch hit

6C (whiff over crouch)

- FC 2C

5D

- (dash) 5B

- IB > ID© (also beats cancel to 623B)

j.D

- 5B

623B

- (dash) 5A/2A

- IB > (dash) 5B

Ashura

- (dash) 5A/2A

- IB > (dash) 5B

- During flash BK > 2C

Daifunka

- FC 2C

- During flash BK (block) > FC 2C

Steel Rain

- During flash B+C (close)

- During flash CH HF (far)

Not Guaranteed but Good to Know:

Ashura

- During flash ID© clash > FC 2C (fails if Bang cancels from clash with certain moves)

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You missed punishing 5D with anything since it's like -15. Surprised Huey doesn't mention anything about just DPing it to not worry about fire punch.

Thank you based LK

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You missed punishing 5D with anything since it's like -15. Surprised Huey doesn't mention anything about just DPing it to not worry about fire punch.

Thank you based LK

Ah missed that one, thanks. If they do it immediately, you can only ID the fire punch if you IB the 5D, but added it.

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Ah missed that one, thanks. If they do it immediately, you can only ID the fire punch if you IB the 5D, but added it.

Yeah, but IBing 5D is pretty easy.

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if they do supercrash immediately, you'll still be locked in blockstun, so if you don't end up IBing 5D, just input inferno divider; if it doesn't come out, punish supercrash with 5B.

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Is there anyway to defend against bangs astral or is it unblockable? I played a Bang that used astral multiple times I was hit every time even on barrier block. I know of Bangs guard point. So is the only way not to be astraled is to burst the second before the astral is used?

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Bang's Astral is unblockable. Apparently it's a throw(?). You can ID through it though if you time it right.

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Is there anyway to defend against bangs astral or is it unblockable? I played a Bang that used astral multiple times I was hit every time even on barrier block. I know of Bangs guard point. So is the only way not to be astraled is to burst the second before the astral is used?

I think I played you fairly recently right? Nice to see you on here and that you're actually EC.

Bang's Astral is unblockable. Apparently it's a throw(?). You can ID through it though if you time it right.

C Inferno Divider will just go right through it as long as you are doing it on reaction to him doing it, just to clarify the timing it right part. If Bang doesn't guard point teleport off the hit Ragna will actually get a CH out of it. If the Bang does guard point teleport both moves will just whiff.

BUT if you neutral tech and are immediately doing C Inferno Divider and not doing it on reaction to him actually doing the Astral, you will get hit by it if he guard point teleports. If he does not guard point teleport both hits of ID will get guard pointed but he isn't likely to not guard point teleport off that.

Basically do not do C Inferno Divider before he even does it, aka don't mash DP on wakeup. This is actually the opposite for D Inferno Divider. If you do D Inferno Divider early and he guard point teleports it will whiff cause Ragna goes flying. If he does NOT guard point teleport you will get hit. Don't even bother doing D Inferno Divider against it though for obvious reasons.

So to make your life easier, just do C Inferno Divider on reaction to actually seeing the move.

Ragna is also the only Male character that can just crouch underneath a typical TK Astral. He would still get hit by it if the Bang did it while coming down in the air and at the lowest point though. Hazama can also crouch underneath TK Astral most of the time but he actually has a weird hit box to the point that at a certain distance and/or I guess a certain frame of his crouching animation can get hit by it.

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Yeah, I remember I was playing against a Ragna with my Bang, I did TK Astral and he just hit me out of it with C ID. Thanks for clarifying that,Zeth! :)

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