[CSE] Lambda vs Taokaka

[kenja0]

Matchup Ranking: 4-6

The Enemy's Assessment: [CSEX] Taokaka vs Lambda

Overview

General Strategy

Good Tools For The Match Up

Things To Look Out For

Conclusion

Will Update With Feedback

[toanenadiz]

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[Thino]

But guys, seriously.. how do I hit Tao with my swords??

[AchedSphinx]

Off the top of my head, only Arakune, Carl, Bang, Tao and Plat have a 2A that's a low to my knowledge.

So yeah, I'd say 5/19 doesn't really qualify for "almost every character".

6/19. You forgot Madam Rachel.

@Thino 214D, a lot of the time you can force her to jump and toss out a 2D or 6D. Don't rely on it a lot though. Most cases, j.D/j.2D is the safest drive to use against her.

[someonewhodied]

Dont try to hit tao.

Now that 2C has head invincibility, time it and get a nice 2C CH.

[AchedSphinx]

Nah, Rachel's isn't a low. Maybe you're mistaking her 2A for her 2B?

Frame data could be wrong or I'm reading it wrong haha. Has her 2A as LA for guard. That means it can only be blocked low or in the air right?

@someonewhodied, you kinda wanna hit her. Think of it like this, Lambda has the advantage in the match-up. Tao has 9500 hp versus Lambda's 10000. One point for Lambda. Lambda does a lot more damage than Tao does. Another point for Lambda. Now all you need is two optimal combos and she's pretty much dead. Best way to go about it though, since that doesn't pop-up often, is to zone her. Trust me, Tao's are as afraid of Lambdas as Lambdas are afraid of her. You can zone Tao just like anyone else

[someonewhodied]

Gravity>Sickle Storm>6D?

(Yes I love my 6Ds.)

the 2C thing is situational, but very helpful. So I guess don't try to land it exclusively, but use it when tao is too close to safely zone.

[AchedSphinx]

2C isn't bad or anything. The thing is, it's only effective if she's in the air at all ya know. And Tao's do enjoy attacking low. So if the Tao is predictable enough for you to know she's going to jump, then go for it. I think she has one of those weird overheads that make her jump that you can probably defeat her with 2C as well.

Gravity > Sickle Storm > 6D... looks weird to me, won't they tech before sickle storm even hits? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

[someonewhodied]

2C isn't bad or anything. The thing is, it's only effective if she's in the air at all ya know. And Tao's do enjoy attacking low. So if the Tao is predictable enough for you to know she's going to jump, then go for it. I think she has one of those weird overheads that make her jump that you can probably defeat her with 2C as well.

Gravity > Sickle Storm > 6D... looks weird to me, won't they tech before sickle storm even hits? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

I meant the gravity for full screen away pressure. Gravity holds tao there, Sickle Storm forces a block or jump. If tao jumps, 6D will force block, or let you do 6DD>236C. If not, well gravity will last long enough to let you nail tao with any other D again. Or shoot off a spike chaser.

[Delrian]

Delicious, delicious vs Tao theoryfighting.

[toanenadiz]

@someonewhodied, you kinda wanna hit her. Think of it like this, Lambda has the advantage in the match-up. Tao has 9500 hp versus Lambda's 10000. One point for Lambda. Lambda does a lot more damage than Tao does. Another point for Lambda. Now all you need is two optimal combos and she's pretty much dead. Best way to go about it though, since that doesn't pop-up often, is to zone her. Trust me, Tao's are as afraid of Lambdas as Lambdas are afraid of her. You can zone Tao just like anyone else

I disagree

I meant the gravity for full screen away pressure. Gravity holds tao there, Sickle Storm forces a block or jump. If tao jumps, 6D will force block, or let you do 6DD>236C. If not, well gravity will last long enough to let you nail tao with any other D again. Or shoot off a spike chaser.

Tao can just air dash out of the gravity well and D towards you while you are trying 236D. No self respecting Tao is gonna stay grounded long enough to block an empty 236D.

[mAc Chaos]

Tao seems like she would be hard against Lambda because she can dip in between all of Lambda's blinds pots.

[someonewhodied]

I disagree

Tao can just air dash out of the gravity well and D towards you while you are trying 236D. No self respecting Tao is gonna stay grounded long enough to block an empty 236D.

Airdash and then a direct D allows me enough time to 6D or 2C depending on range.

[AchedSphinx]

I disagree

You're really going to have to elaborate on this one. This really doesn't add much. It's like having an argument and simply saying "I disagree" and walking away. At least state why.

Tao seems like she would be hard against Lambda because she can dip in between all of Lambda's blinds pots.

I would like a blind pot!

[toanenadiz]

Airdash and then a direct D allows me enough time to 6D or 2C depending on range.

Who said it would be a direct D? I am not trying to theory fight and figure out how to prevent every situation. But it would be really hard to make Tao block a raw 236D, even if she is in a gravity well and that was supposed to be my point.

You're really going to have to elaborate on this one. This really doesn't add much. It's like having an argument and simply saying "I disagree" and walking away. At least state why.

I'm at work and can't really do long posts right now. I'll do it once I get home.

[toanenadiz]

Double posting because I am too lazy to edit

@someonewhodied, you kinda wanna hit her. Think of it like this, Lambda has the advantage in the match-up. Tao has 9500 hp versus Lambda's 10000. One point for Lambda. Lambda does a lot more damage than Tao does. Another point for Lambda. Now all you need is two optimal combos and she's pretty much dead. Best way to go about it though, since that doesn't pop-up often, is to zone her. Trust me, Tao's are as afraid of Lambdas as Lambdas are afraid of her. You can zone Tao just like anyone else

I'll give you the first point, although I don't really think it is that important. While Tao does have a hard time doing a combo on a standing Lambda, Lambda will have just as hard a time just hitting her. Tao has all of the movements options to make zoning her at any distance difficult. It is just too easy for Tao approach in the blind spots of D moves and it is insanely hard to AA a Tao who knows how to move in the air. Once Tao has 50 meter, you can no longer use 214D as a tool, since she can reaction super it easily. It is by no means an impossible match-up but it isn't as easy as you make it seem.

[BeaverDeity]

Think of it this way... The faster you ground Tao and send that naughty hooligan to the corner, the more enjoyable your time against her will be.

[AchedSphinx]

Double posting because I am too lazy to edit

I'll give you the first point, although I don't really think it is that important. While Tao does have a hard time doing a combo on a standing Lambda, Lambda will have just as hard a time just hitting her. Tao has all of the movements options to make zoning her at any distance difficult. It is just too easy for Tao approach in the blind spots of D moves and it is insanely hard to AA a Tao who knows how to move in the air. Once Tao has 50 meter, you can no longer use 214D as a tool, since she can reaction super it easily. It is by no means an impossible match-up but it isn't as easy as you make it seem.

True enough. Though, I find that whatever Tao does puts her at heavy risk. Thinking about it that way, if you hit her once and get her down, she's in a bad position since her defense is pretty bad. Force her in the corner and it's over. The health thing was really there for fun, but Lambda's combos practical combos do a lot more damage than Tao, unless she does to use meter for becoming two. Which means Lambda really only needs good combos to finish the job. A drive air combo to get her near the corner and well-placed drives to keep her there because if she's near a corner against a Lambda, they won't risk doing some fancy footwork, because all Lambda needs is one 5D[CH] and it's practically over.

But as you said, the match-up isn't as easy as I make it sound. It never is

[toanenadiz]

Well, Tao's corner carry is pretty much the same as Lambda's and Tao does 4K+ in the corner just like Lambda meterlessly. The chances of actually getting that CH 5D are slim since Tao isn't going to be pressing buttons while grounded unless she is right next to you. It would be more common for Tao to get a CH jD against you and that hurts.

It isn't as though you are wrong about Lambda killing Tao in two combos but that just doesn't mean much since you most likely not going to land those nice hits to always get those combos against her. Similar to how pretty much how Lambda's other match-ups are with the other character trying to do the same thing you say we should against Tao.

[XDest]

Well, that general weakness is why Tao never has that many overwhelmingly good matchups, and a hell of a lot of even/near even ones. She can be killed really fast (no health, 4 primers, no DP), but she has a a ton of movement options and gets good reward from it too. But that goes for almost every one of Tao's matchups, not just this one.

It seems like this matchup has always been an uphill one for Lambda, seeing as good movement are a sword projectile's worst enemy. Taokaka excels at getting in, and you don't have something like Rachel's wind to screw around with my movement (other than gravity well, that's not the same though).

Tao can also generally beat Lambda in 2 combos, if one of those was AB2

[AchedSphinx]

Well, Tao's corner carry is pretty much the same as Lambda's and Tao does 4K+ in the corner just like Lambda meterlessly. The chances of actually getting that CH 5D are slim since Tao isn't going to be pressing buttons while grounded unless she is right next to you. It would be more common for Tao to get a CH jD against you and that hurts.

It isn't as though you are wrong about Lambda killing Tao in two combos but that just doesn't mean much since you most likely not going to land those nice hits to always get those combos against her. Similar to how pretty much how Lambda's other match-ups are with the other character trying to do the same thing you say we should against Tao.

Lambda can do roughly 6k in the corner off j.B, 5k with 2B, this off sickle oki where Tao would have to guess high/low. So Lambda's damage is higher in the corner without meter and in most cases you'll want to end it with Calamity to keep her in the corner for continued pressure. The interesting thing I've found lately is that you don't necessarily need a nice hit, you just need a hit that leads into a gravity combo like 2c or 6a, you just need to be able to react to it. Which is tough. Tao is low a lot, so you can even toss in 4B for additional damage.

5D isn't really that slim. If you're covering the air and she's afraid of being picked off by a 6D you can lead her into the 5D > 236C , guess it depends on the distance at this point.

Well, that general weakness is why Tao never has that many overwhelmingly good matchups, and a hell of a lot of even/near even ones. She can be killed really fast (no health, 4 primers, no DP), but she has a a ton of movement options and gets good reward from it too. But that goes for almost every one of Tao's matchups, not just this one.

It seems like this matchup has always been an uphill one for Lambda, seeing as good movement are a sword projectile's worst enemy. Taokaka excels at getting in, and you don't have something like Rachel's wind to screw around with my movement (other than gravity well, that's not the same though).

Tao can also generally beat Lambda in 2 combos, if one of those was AB2

The way I see it. The only way to deal with a speedy character funnel them into one place so you can punish them. Sure Tao can jump and do all that fancy movement, but she still has to attack, and whenever she does, she's vulnerable. So it's the same situation on both sides. The Lambda just needs to react to whatever she punishes Tao with.

edit: The two combos needed to defeat Tao if she's in the corner. j.B > 3C > gravity...6027 dmg. After calamity, do sickle storm, you can go high or low, but go for a grab instead. throw > 4B[2]...3.8k. Just need to lead Tao into the corner and you can win.

[toanenadiz]

5D isn't really that slim. If you're covering the air and she's afraid of being picked off by a 6D you can lead her into the 5D > 236C , guess it depends on the distance at this point.

I'm not disagreeing with your point about being able to kill Tao with two corner combos. That typically happens when Lambda gets Tao in the corner. It is just that it is hard to get to that point. Tao has a better neutral game than Lambda does and it shows in this match-up. And I think 5D has a slim chance of CH most characters without projectiles because they shouldn't be hitting buttons at that range...And hitconfirming CH 5D itself isn't an easy feat.

The way I see it. The only way to deal with a speedy character funnel them into one place so you can punish them. Sure Tao can jump and do all that fancy movement, but she still has to attack, and whenever she does, she's vulnerable. So it's the same situation on both sides. The Lambda just needs to react to whatever she punishes Tao with.

It is safer for Tao to attack Lambda in neutral than it is for Lambda to attack Tao. That is pretty much the reason why the match-up is in her favor. As XDest pretty much said, Tao's movement is great and excels at getting in and it is pretty hard to stop her. Most of the Japanese Lambda seem to jump and try to react to what Tao does but that only takes her so far.

[Emjay]

It is safer for Tao to attack Lambda in neutral than it is for Lambda to attack Tao. That is pretty much the reason why the match-up is in her favor. As XDest pretty much said, Tao's movement is great and excels at getting in and it is pretty hard to stop her. Most of the Japanese Lambda seem to jump and try to react to what Tao does but that only takes her so far.

What toan said. I think you are trying to oversimplify this MU abit too much, Ached. If the Tao players movement is good, you got like no chance to hit her unless you are really ballsy with your guesswork.

Most of the time I just backjump and try to react to Tao with j.DD, j.2DD, really low j.Cs or dash under 2DD when she close to me and up high. Even doing 6As on reaction is mostly suicide, because she can cancel her drives so fast and then just punish you for it. Also 2C sucks ass, because its slow as fuck and I don't like throwing it out on guessing. And like already mentioned 214D gets useless once she has meter for her super. :/

[AchedSphinx]

I'm not really oversimplifying it. Pretty much the whole point of the match up is to get Tao to the corner and win(that's simplifying it). What everyone seems to be saying is that it's impossible to do anything to her under any circumstance. Which doesn't make sense to me. Tao still has to get in. That much is true. In order for her to do that, she has to risk something, she can be fancy and whatnot, but still she has to get within range of Lambda.

6A is great, yes, but, you can really stuff Tao's drive attempts with 5A, which will be a CH for you to punish. A lot of times for Tao to advance forward she normally uses her drive, which is why I thought 5D would be useful for that, since on hit it will CH.

Tao can do a lot of things, but so can Lambda. I'm not even sure about that 214D thing. For some reason, I remember it hitting when she did that super, I could be misremembering though.

Whatever the case, what I'm saying is, at neutral, the match-up is basically Lambda reacting to whatever Tao does, counter that, and then she's in a good position to win. 5A, 4B, 5/6B, are good at punishing her drive attempts. Lambda doesn't have to commit to a high reward/risk type of ability. I think she can at least bait things.

[Overheat]

I think this match-up is one of Lambda's worst match-ups.

A good Tao doesn't have to play risky and get hit by 5D CH's. She can commit to a safer, non-Drive approach. Taokaka does get hit out of her 214214C by 214D sometimes, but I think it's a small risk and doesn't happen if done fast enough. I think it's more that it's so difficult to hit Tao, and if you do, it's more likely to be some air combo that doesn't lead to oki.

I just find it frustrating playing against her, and I think most Japanese Lambda-Taokaka matches reflect that.