Zappa Vs. Eddie

[Oiboi]

Hi, Dangief here. Couldn't delete the post without taking the thread. Simply put, the other posts have better/correct matchup info. So I had to edit this one. No hard feelings, just trying to keep only the best. Because Zappa deserves it! Don't poke out Eddie's eyes... he's blind already! That's my best matchup advice.

[Teyah]

You haven't really fought any Eddies before, have you Oiboi? A lot of this advice is very poor and will get you killed in a hurry against basic textbook Eddie stuff, so I'll help out where I can:

Naked/Unsummon:

-Defense is key. Many Eddie's will attempt the K Little Eddie loop, so gaurd low until you see the 6K coming, then summon into it.

If it's not performed late after Mawaru, Eddie 6K will hit while you're still in blockstun, meaning there is no gap between Mawaru (shadow K) and 6K. It's also extremely tough and unrealistic to expect someone to react to a 6K and do a non-buffered 236P on reaction, a command which is much slower than simply reaction blocking the overhead, which is hard enough for most people. If you try to buffer the 236, you'll get tagged by Eddie's 5K (low) if he chooses to go that route.

-Don't be scared to try to counter. You'll have better luck trying to find a gap than turtling. Many Eddie's expect there opponents to cower, but aggression will ruin most of the advantageous attacks, as you'll be able to get rid of little eddie one way or another.

This is not a good strategy at all - the risk of attacking the shadow is far too great given your rewards. At best you'll kill the shadow and then get hit by Eddie or hit Eddie for small damage and a knockdown/summon, at worst you'll get CH by either Eddie or the shadow (more likely) into a combo -> unblockable -> possible dizzy + death. All shadow attacks have partial invincibility as well as good priority in general, so it's simply not safe to try to beat them out.

Basic rule of fighting Eddie w/shadow: If you want to kill the shadow, do it with a projectile, a safe multi-hit attack, or an invincible move + RC/FRC. Do not put your hitbox at the risk of getting CH, or you will more often than not lose a lot of life. On this note, Zappa's 5Sf (spit) can serve as a decent way to attack the shadow if done at its max distance, though this can be turned around on you if Eddie activates Mawaru at about the same time.

-As a general rule, if you see an unblockable coming (This comes with experience, you'll learn your opponents techniques to set up for an unblockable) Jump into the air and FD. This will ruin every unblockable setup Eddie has, so long as you time it right.

FD jumping can work if you sense the unblockable coming a bit late, but decent Eddies will make sure at least one of the two parts of a UB is timed meaty every time. You're much more likely to escape if you can see which attack to block first, then switch your blocking accordingly. And if Eddie is farther away, you can use a wakeup backdash (1F timing) to move out of range against the FB Drill + Shadow D unblockable.

If you need to get out of a loop, FD one of the hits (depends on the hit that's coming) then jump and FD to block the continued hit, which will usually push you away.

If by FD you meant IB, you would be correct. IB the first hit of Mawaru and then choose between FD jump or backdash (or summon/super) to get out of Mawaru pressure. If your timing is off though, you could eat a low attack into combo -> unblockable. Backdash is generally a much better choice for Zappa since his BD moves him far back and is only vulnerable for 1 frame at the end, meaning the likelihood of getting hit by the tail end of Mawaru's second hit is much lower than it is for other characters.

Note that FDing against Mawaru doesn't do much good at all, since it vacuums in on block - all that will do is put Zappa in even more blockstun, which is definitely not a good scenario.

I also question why you put such advice as counters to random Shadow Gallery or sword super, since any basic Eddie will never, ever use sword super randomly against Zappa, and will use SG very sparingly and only with FRC.

Vs the summons: Of all three, Ghost gives Eddie the most trouble at neutral (by far), then Dog/Raou, then Sword.

Dog is annoying in that it can kill the shadow while Zappa is blocking, but Eddie has many moves with long active frames to handle a dog at neutral (eg. close drill, FB drill, 5Sf). Also from neutral, the shadow can beat out all of the Dog's attacks with its Bite (Shadow P), so don't be overly aggressive with it. Not a horrible summon to have out, but I'd still say that it's in favour of Eddie w/shadow.

Sword is absolutely terrible against Eddie. Drills and Eddie 2K/2S will take care of a grounded Zappa, while the shadow and Eddie 6P will easily cut out Zappa's aerial game. Once you block a drill (or a normal xx Drill), Mawaru will follow and then it's Eddie's round to win. The sword's lack of range and mixup potential is what kills its usefulness in this matchup.

Ghost actually has many ways of dealing with the shadow, unlike the other summons. Downwards bouncing ghosts / triple ghost throw can kill the shadow if it's close enough, and homing ghost throw is a pain for Eddie to deal with at far screen as he must move both himself and the shadow out of the way to avoid giving up momentum to Zappa. Just don't allow yourself to get hit by a random drill into Mawaru pressure, or you'll have a very tough time escaping that without taking damage as Ghost Zappa has no reversal options (outside of super).

Raou is not too great against Eddie since he is very susceptible to drills or random hits while throwing projectiles from afar, and he doesn't have a (safe) answer to the shadow when up close.

[Oiboi]

Yeah, it's been a while. I know my advice wasn't that great, but I was hoping to get someone to talk and give more solid advice, which it seemed it worked. I have to agree with pretty much everything you've said. Myself, though, I actually don't have that much trouble when I fight Eddies; but it's been so long that I'm sure what I have is outdated. So thanks for the information. Oh, and by summoning into 6K in the Shadow K pressure loop, I meant exactly that, using the invul frames when it's already about to hit, which would allow Zappa to invul through both attacks. It may be safer to IB backdash/FD Jump, as you said, but this is what I would do, so that's what I posted.

[Teyah]

About summoning on reaction to 6K: The gap in the Shadow K pressure comes between the two hits of Mawaru, not after the last hit / before 6K as you posted. The majority of 6Ks you'll be seeing should have you in blockstun before they connect, so you won't actually be able to summon at all in that time. Even if there is a gap, it's unrealistic to do a reactionary 236P to seeing a 6K, based on reaction and input time alone. But mostly it's not safe to try based on the fact that you will most likely be in blockstun anyway so it wouldn't activate.

[Guardian]

Besides, 6k mixups after mawaru are SO 2007 :-P

[Zeero]

Teyah posting on zappa forums? o.O. When are you coming to toronto again? =D but anyway, I've got to side with teyah on this. Naked: doing a summon to counter 6K from eddie isnt a good idea, its way too risky. Good eddie players will do as teyah says. As for the poorer eddie players, theres a chance that the summon will hit the shadow instead of eddie, you dont get anything out of it except a dead shadow eddie and ur probably free to get owned by whatever eddie can do to you. IB first hit of shadow K into jump FD is okay. I prefer to just try to backdash after IDing the first hit though, but it usually doesnt work unless the eddie screws up and doesnt hit in between the 2 hits of shadow K jumping and FD to block unblockables dont work unless the unblockable was poorly timed. Why else would it be called an unblockable? =P Sword: swords horrible against eddie, uppercut into FRC for stopping shadow is a waste of tension, and if you're talking about uppercut into FRC into sword swipe during an eddie pressure, you're probably gonna get hit before your sword swipe comes out. I'd much rather risk uppercutting the 6K into an FRC because the rewards are much better than just pushing eddie away. Nobody will do SG randomly, not to even mention the sword super. sometimes a random superjump -> airdash -> sword spin will work wonders. but use this once every full moon. Ghost: ghost is your best hope, remember to summon at X0 (or was it X1?) second to get this. dog: Dogs okay... but you still gotta turtle until you find an opening to have your dog attack. Else its just gonna eat drills (S,HS,D) until it dies. raoh: same as naked against eddie i think, except now you do a lot more damage. Overall: I'd play safe against eddie and keep my distance (outside of hs drill and shadow k distance). Not much eddies are willing to rush in without shadow, and if the shadow is out, the shadow usually is in front, so what you want to do is kill the shadow if you can, which will cripple eddie, then attack. If the eddie just keeps distance and tries to slowly poke the shadow to you, evade the shadow hits (if you cant kill it) and wait until eddie calls his shadow back so it recharges faster. When you see this happen, attack. Kill shadow with Naked: 5s (VERY FAR, the pool on the GROUND should hit) ghost: every toss except HS owns the shadow (k kills it, p makes eddie block, s i'm actually not sure) dog: 5s, 5d sword: 2k raoh: DA, 2S maybe im wrong lol

[Phrekwenci]

Sword: Keep'em back with 5HS, the second hit will more than likely hit little Eddie. ...that's all I have right now.

[Zeero]

isnt that free punish by iads if you whiff? like 1st hit whiff -> eddie iad

[Dangief]

I'm pretty sure force break is the best move the sword has against Eddie. Becuase it makes the sword go away.

[Phrekwenci]

isnt that free punish by iads if you whiff?

like

1st hit whiff -> eddie iad

Well, you need to read'em. If you've been throwing out 5HS for a while, throw out 2HS and get'em out of the air. Just remember if you hit something (i.e. little Eddie) you can combo into something else (i.e. uppercut).

[Oiboi]

Here's some more up-to-date and not-so-scrubby-from-me matchup info (Yeah, I was being a silly scrub earlier =D) So I've learned that Slashbacking nearly any hit in one of Eddie's pressure strings almost immediately ruins his pressure and game plan. The reason is because all of Eddie's strings and attacks have a distinct and predictable pattern to them. Therefore, you can reliably land slashbacks (with some practice, of course) since you already know when the hit will land. The options afterward should be obvious, but I'll go over them just for good measure. Naked/Unsummon: -While this would normally be "OH SHI--" time in the match, Slashback-> Summon = WIN. -Need I say more? Once you get a summon, get pressure and don't let up; Eddie's defense is pretty much garbage, particularly against Zappa since he can't drunkard shade any of his projectiles. Keep the pressure and you'll be fine, since little eddie goes away whenever anything touches eddie, blocked or non. Ghosts: -If you lost pressure with ghosts, you need more practice. Simply put, anyways. -However, if you REALLY need pressure back, P toss FRC and FD to keep your ass safe. It might work if you don't mess up. Sword: -This will be difficult to keep pressure on, but FRC's and pokes will help. -Don't make mistakes! The resulting pain will be humiliating! Dog: -Unblockables for the win! Just as Eddie has wakeup unblockable traps, so do you once you get the dog. Raou: -If you get Raou out, your doing everything fine probably. Or, maybe not, since you lost a summon. Depends on if you wanted that to happen. -Pressure and pain. More or less. Don't let him get little eddie. So I've had trouble dealing with wakeup unblockables from Eddie. The issue is that even if you COULD SB one hit, then the other... You can't SB for 10 frames after wakeup. So you really gotta interrupt pressure before the knockdown, or you can say goodnight to the match. It's vital that you get pressure and keep it. The biggest problem is that you can't easily keep pressure after a summon because only the dog has a surefire wakeup option. It's kind of like forcing eddie to make 2 mistakes for you to win; and that's if your perfect. If your not perfect... Well, it could take up to 20 mistakes for you to win.