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pktazn

[CSE] Tsubaki vs Rachel

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Roar.

At Neutral:

At the beginning of the match, I wouldn't recommend running back, because you'll make it easier for her to set traps on the screen. It will happen, but you'd want to make it harder. That doesn't mean you should be reckless though, as she can fish out for 6B CHs and send you into the corner which is really where you do not want to be. At this range, you're usually fine though. Just make it a priority to get into her rather than to charge. You can do this by either running to her, or by air dashing to her. Note though that her 236A can stop your run in attempts and your 236X, and 236B can stop your air to ground attempts. She also has 6A, and the combo from that can result in you being in the other side of the screen. Also, our normals > Rachel's normals. Our normals are better in terms of range. If she is trying to get away you can use 236C to close the distance but like I said, she can stop you with 236A, so try not to get predictable with your get in options.

Far Range:

Not the most ideal spot to be in tbh. She will have poles up, George, and the pumpkin. I urge you guys to proceed with caution, don't rush in with 236C, and try not to blindly run in. Be careful with air dashing in too, especially if there are poles about. You could get caught by sword iris, and even if you block it, Rachel is still at the advantage. If you get hit, you just allow her to set more traps.

At that range, you're better off acquiring more stock, but just be aware of the fact that she can use wind to push george or a lobelia close to you. If you charge for too long, you may end up getting hit, or even blocking george and allowing Rachel to rush you down. If you get hit in her mixup, it's guaranteed to get you into the corner. Don't get greedy with charge. If she doesn't have George or a pumpkin and she's using 236B, use that opportunity to rush in. Even if you don't punish the recovery, at least you have her blocking. George can be destroyed with 3C, but of course, you'll leave yourself vulnerable.

Pressure wise:

How you would deal with other characters without a good reversal really. You can follow Batousai's blockstring analysis in the wiki, so I won't mention it here since it's the same really and not character specific. Just don't get carried away with charge cancelling alot of stuff as she can stop you with 5A, since hers is good. Also, you can throw her out of the cat chair.

Regarding blocking

Most likely you'll be doing alot of this if you're in the corner. She can do a quick 5A/5B > j.A/B overhead if she has wind. It's quite difficult to see coming. I wouldn't recommend guessing it, as she could just hit you with 2B and get a combo going. I think 5B > 3C catches your jump attempts too. You'll get used to that overhead eventually. How I did it, is that I noticed that the wind use and the overhead wasn't simultaneous of course, so I grew better at blocking it when I saw the wind use. The problem becomes more difficult when you block it, because they can just jump cancel again into j.A, or go for the 2B low. When you're blocking, use the barrier to push her out in order to give yourself more space to escape the vortex. 5B > j.A overhead can be stopped I think with a DP provided that you IB'd 5B, but that's risky because the Rachel could just jump and do nothing.

Without wind however, she can't do much to you. Her normal 4B overhead is easy to react to because of how slow it is, but bear in mind it removes a primer. If you're blocking George, you usually just have to accept whatever Rachel is going to do. If she is sitting there next to you, don't burst, and don't CA, because she'll just block them and punish you after. You better off waiting and doing them when she's actually hit you.

If you get hit by something midscreen, usually, it's guaranteed corner carry.

My personal problem with this MU is that I'm afraid of being in the corner, so my frustration grows as I get hit more. Thus, I make more mistakes, meaning, I'll burst quicker, at the 1st hit midscreen for example, and I'll completely neglect the fact that I need to be patient to get in. Of course, this is deeply regretting later. Don't let her frustrate you into making common mistakes like that.

This is just to get the ball rollin' though. What do you guys have to say?

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Mostly that; There aren't, to my knowledge, any Tsubaki specific tricks to dealing with the pumpkin.

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Consider using 214D in neutral to avoid all the vegetables she throws at you.

That was something I was really lacking.

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214D goes through all of her projectile stuff?

As far as this match up goes, it becomes quite the pain in the ass when they get all their stuff out like geoge, pumpkin and cat stick... things so once you get in there, just stick close to her respecting and baiting cat chair from time to time.

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Except Sword Iris and the pumpkin (when it's very close to the ground). They both have foot attribute.

It can go through Tempest Dahlia too.

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So it only goes through pumpkin when it's not near Tsu's feet? Weird o_O.

Pumpkin is a big problem though and it makes Rachel players overconfident when they're using it to cover their entry so if you can use that against them through 214D, it's would work well. I'll have to test it out sometime in the lab.

I wouldn't use it against Tempest Dahlia since it lasts too long for you to go through the whole thing and even if you trade CHs on that, you're not really getting anywhere.

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So it only goes through pumpkin when it's not near Tsu's feet? Weird o_O.

Pumpkin is a big problem though and it makes Rachel players overconfident when they're using it to cover their entry so if you can use that against them through 214D, it's would work well. I'll have to test it out sometime in the lab.

Well, the pumpkin has foot attribute as well, but there have been times where I have been through it. I'll need to do a double check on it as well.

I wouldn't use it against Tempest Dahlia since it lasts too long for you to go through the whole thing and even if you trade CHs on that, you're not really getting anywhere.

Neither would I, but it's an option if you're quite close to her right?

Oh yea guys, remember that 22B ender combos can be followed up with 236C > 22C because she has a big hitbox. That further increases our corner carry.

Still Looking back on my matches, I don't see why I was so obsessed with using 236C/D to get in when 214D exists to get around these things. At least I've learnt from it, I hope.

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Oh ya, I totally forgot about her and Valk's wonky hitbox on the ground. I'll have to do the combo extender from now on which basically carries them from one corner to the next.

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214D shouldn't work against the pumpkin at all, but maybe there's something weird going on. Technically it will beat Lobelias, but it's not really viable as a means of getting around them unless you Yomi an A Lobelia - otherwise, A Lobelia will probably just hit you if you try to do any 214X on reaction, and assuming Rachel is spacing vaguely properly, she won't be using B/C Lobelia when you are close enough to hit her with 214D.

Honestly, overall, I don't think 214D is very good in this matchup, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

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I took a few minutes in the lab to see Rachel stuff and as I thought, you can't 214D through her pumpkin at all. It doesn't matter if it's hitting her in the face or the leg.

If a move has foot attribute, it'll hit through stuff that has invul to it no matter where and how it hits as I first believed.

You can however 214D right through her cat projectiles with ease using 214X which is actually quite nice since many rachel players like using 236A/B as a means to hit you out of your 236X series at mid to long range so you can quick cancel 236B into 214D to hit them out of it or just plainly dash and 214C.

Also, on Rachel you can do

5A > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236A > 22B > 236C > 214B > 22B which will carry her into the corner with ease and give you added damage and meter. It's specific to her(valk + tager too) and I sometimes forget about it since I don't fight Rachels often but given how it benefits us to stay in Rachel's face after a knock away, this is a very good thing to use.

You can also choose not to use the last 22B and end with 214B which will force them to tech even closer to you(you don't have to run to get to them if they're not at the corner already) to set up your next offense.

My biggest problem with playing VS Rachel is that most Rachel players are busy setting up their offense that they let me charge and I just kinda sit there charging myself for free which sounds alright but it's really quite a headache to get out once Rachel has her offense rolling so I say opt to continue the pressure rather than getting charges.

Also, save your meter for CA in this match up as if you're caught in the corner it can be very difficult to get out if they know what they're doing covering their bases with various tools. Only use CA when Rachel herself is stuck in a attack animation and not when you're stun locked by george or something.

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There isn't really a way.

If she uses 236A, you're gonna have to try jumping over them, but that has to be done on reaction, otherwise she'll AA you.

If she uses 236B/C, you can run underneath them , or you could use 236C to get in, but you'd have to be fast. If you're too slow she'll just throw another one at your face.

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There isn't really a way.

If she uses 236A, you're gonna have to try jumping over them, but that has to be done on reaction, otherwise she'll AA you.

If she uses 236B/C, you can run underneath them , or you could use 236C to get in, but you'd have to be fast. If you're too slow she'll just throw another one at your face.

Yeah, I feel like Rachel's zoning is harder to deal with than Lambda's, especially if I'm getting lobelia raped while pumpkin and George is out. This match up is very frustrating ><

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Yeah, there's some annoying things in this match up for me that I'll have to get used to.

Her 6A seems really good now. Huge vertical hit box, great recovery, can lead into 3.5kish. It doesn't really hit forward that much, but it'll even tag you if you're jumping past her.

Her j.C is really quick and hits high above her. Great proration and can confirm into what, nearly 5k if you get hit while charging.

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Ya, her 6A comes out deceptively fast and even on whiff if you double jump it, they can just do it again to catch you.

Getting in on Rachel in the air just got a lot tougher. It's quite the hassle.

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How I did it, is that I noticed that the wind use and the overhead wasn't simultaneous of course, so I grew better at blocking it when I saw the wind use.

It's possible for Rachel to do j.2DA after the jc, so you can't see the wind beforehand. It also makes the fuzzy afterwards easier. I don't know why noone does it this way, it makes it so much less obvious.

5B > j.A overhead can be stopped I think with a DP provided that you IB'd 5B

Nope, 5B > j.A is completely gapless even on IB if done perfectly on Tsubaki and most other characters.

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It's possible for Rachel to do j.2DA after the jc, so you can't see the wind beforehand. It also makes the fuzzy afterwards easier. I don't know why noone does it this way, it makes it so much less obvious.

A lot of Rachel players do do it this way, myself included. It's easier to avoid the superjump j.A when inputted this way. However, the wind still comes out before j.A. The amount of time between wind and j.A is just much shorter.

But yeah, using wind as a way to see an upcoming mixup is a great way to set yourself up to die to someone who realizes you're doing it and switches to 5B 2D delay 2B.

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Anyone have any suggestions as to what to do against Rachel if she likes to neutral tech with wind? (Sends her sortof in this flipping forwards motion and she's invulnerable the whole time). Do I just have to master hitting her meaty as she lands?

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Laaaaaaaaaaate.

If she flips past you she's practically escaped your pressure/oki and you'll have to work your way back in again. If she flips right into you, you can pressure as normal but she can still BD and get out.

If I see a Rachel flipping in my face I just throw them.

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Right, but I guess they can probably backdash a real meaty because they'll actually have room to move back and stuff. OTOH, that should work against throws too. I guess it's just spacing and practice.

Of course, I haven't played that Rachel since. -_-

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