[CSE] Valkenhayn vs Tager

[Kiba]

Lol. Credits to Orion.

Discuss how frustrating it is for Tager to do shit.

Punishes:

So essentially, if he throws out a 5C, just be ready to reaction 6A his 6C or 2D.

5D means he'll reset pressure or go for BSledge. BSledge is VERY easy to react to after that so just be ready.

If he goes for high/low mixup after 6A by means of 6B/3C, you can IB his 3C and punish it clean with 2B. Caution though, you have a 1 frame opening to do so as you're making 2B hit on the very last frame of recovery. Worth it if you can hit, and if he blocks it, just continue pressure. Best part is the punish has him crouching so you get a full Rozen combo on top of that. BUT if you're point blank, throw him if you're in the corner. Corner throw combos do more damage and its easier to time it.

If the Tager insists on using 5D to pull in and he miss spaced it, Call him out with Rozen and you can hit him from nearly full screen with the magnetism pull. But you'd more likely see this around half screen so delay a bit to avoid getting hit on startup. CH Rozen leads to 5.5k if the corner with meter so definitely take advantage of it.

j.2C:

[w]5B is a clean punish, 2C sometimes will trade with it.

Anti-airing:

Tager has some very strong air normals. Hes one of the few that can make a trade with Valk's 2C actually bad. But nonetheless, you can't let him do that to you so if you can call out the right normal, you can try and do something. Sadly though, 2C can actually get stuffed by j.B A LOT. But if hes telegraphed, 6A will beat anything he does in the air. Thats your most reliable AA against Tager since hes very linear in his aerial approach despite him having incredible air normals.

[w]5B makes for a great anti-air in this match-up, beats out Tager's j.2C

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Tager wants to get in and keep pressuring Valk to get impatient and try and either hit him or get away. Tager will force you to act in some cases or eat shit for it. You NEED good yomi to deal with Tager's offence. Valk has incredibly limited options up close so you must be careful. Tick grabs and yomi Colliders are gonna be frustrating to deal with. Not to mention that Tager will always be looking to AA you with 2C. You get hit by 2C, you're eating 4k into GF and he will then have enough meter for 720. Hes also gonna try and throw 6A to get you to mash into Super Armor and this will probably be his best answer to Wolf approach meaning you need to watch out if hes charging. The Super Armor eats up 1500 Damage total(He takes half of it though) So he can eat any one hit you throw at him, even SUPERS! So don't mash against his 6A, either jump and barrier or just block it.

Strategy:

Char specific details:

• Tager can AC our 6C on reaction
  
• Tager's common answer to most of our wolf mixups is a 360, so don't use often (or preferably at all)
  
• 5C is very good for spacing and fishing for CHs.
  

[Diveman]

How am I supposed to deal with this match? Just kick him to death and run away? also how do I beat his j2C? is kinda annoying

[NickExtreme1]

How am I supposed to deal with this match? Just kick him to death and run away? also how do I beat his j2C? is kinda annoying

Pretty much. One of Tager's worst matches in my opinion.

The match-up hasn't changed much from CS2, except Tager 3C being special cancellable, so be wary of that in his blockstings. 5C is your best friend for this match-up. It leads to your hitconfirm combos for dat damage when playing neutral. Wolf mobility is used here to run away and not really for mix-up as opposed to other matches, you don't want to risk getting command grabbed by Tager.

For j.2C, [w]5B beat it clean in CS2, probably does in Extend still despite [w]5B invun nerf. [h]6A works fine too.

Reference the CS2 thread for some more info.

[Sahgren]

Looking at the frame data, [w]5B shouldn't beat it cleanly anymore. It either clashes or trades with you being knocked down.

It seems best to just run out from under him and try to punish the whiff if you can. Resetting back into neutral if you can't do that in time isn't that bad of an option either, since Valk has an advantage there.

Air to air is (probably) the most viable option of knocking Tager out of the air, with [h]j.B > j.214B and [w]j.A(AA) > j.236A leading into good combos.

[A.X.I.S.]

Hello hello local Tager mod has come by to speak about a few things on this match up.

This match up is in Valks favor but it is not as easy as one would think.

You see the problem is Valk approaching Tager.

A informed Tager will not throw out anything unsafe or anything in neutral that can be beaten.

Doing wolf transformation after normals normally will get you slapped especially if Tager IB's it so please be aware of your moves being IB'd.

AAing Tager can be a issue but it can be solved with [w]j.A more than wolf w[5B].

Tager's backdash is useful on Valk in many places and 360A punishes a lot of stuff.

Please do not do anything risky/stupid in this match up like being aggressive to Tager on his wake up.

Magnetism is only a thread if Tager has his hands on you.

If you are not in the air or not in 5D's hitting range please wolf walk away.

Makes the Tager player upset and gives you one less thing to worry about.

Tager's 6A is not a threat 3C the shit or super double jump around it.

Thank you for your time.

I am missing something in this, I'll type it when I remember.