Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kiba

[CSE] Valkenhayn Self - Improvement and Critique Thread

Recommended Posts

Okay, so I'm finally posting some match videos. I should clarify that I'm still very much a beginner so there are probably a lot of obvious things that I simply don't know.

Bad habits that I'm actively trying to fix:

1. No 5C > 6C! Bad!

2. After a w.A gets blocked, I often jump instead of continuing pressure with 6C.

3. I drop my combos a lot, but am working to improve.

4. I run out of wolf meter too often, so I need to be more careful with it. I'm trying to work wolf cannons into my movement options to save meter.

5. Sometimes I use w.B > w.j.AAA > w.j.236D just because it looks cool and it's easy...

6. Less 5C > 236A > 2A.

Things I'd like to request help with:

1. Finding holes in pressure. I'm not terrible at blocking, but I don't know where the holes in various characters' pressure is, so they can reset x infinity until they eventually catch me. If anyone could point out where I can break pressure when I seem stuck, that would be a huge help.

2. What can I combo with after a w.B AA that's too high to land w.j.AAA or a high 2C AA?

3. What are some good wolf movement tricks besides:

w.j.66 > D

w.j.6C > D

w.IAD > D

w.9C > w.3C

I really feel like I need to vary and improve my approaches more.

And with that said, please give me all your criticism! I'm here to learn!

These are in chronological order over a period of a few days:

Valkenhayn vs. Relius

Valkenhayn vs. Platinum

Valkenhayn vs. Makoto

Valkenhayn vs. Litchi

Valkenhayn vs. Hakumen

Valkenhayn vs. Taokaka 1

Valkenhayn vs. Taokaka 2

Valkenhayn vs. Taokaka 3 OH GOD

Kiba, I do have some videos on there of Tsubaki as well (who is theoretically my main), so feel free to comment if you like!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall: I can tell that you're trying to implement wolf mode into your play, which is really good. Most beginners tend to idly ignore it. However, your wolf mode neutral is relatively lackluster at the moment, as is your human mode neutral. This is to be expected since you're new to Valkenhayn and don't really know how to hitconfirm properly. It's not that you're really lacking knowledge regarding movement options via wolf mode, you just need to utilize those options in a more productive manner. Try playing footsies with w[5A] more often, and don't flail around via w[7C] as much especially when fullscreen. w[7C] and w[4C] are primary used for baiting, not for advancing upon foes from a fullscreen-ish distance.

Take w[j.B] out of your play completely, it's not needed (aside from being a combo filler). In human mode, try to change things up a bit. Attempt to eliminate your massive usage of 6C, j.C and instead opt for more practical forms of pressure (6C midscreen leads into nothing, rising j.C midscreen leads into nothing meterless). Here's a basic blockstring that you should try utilizing more often: 2B > 5B > 3C. Or, when you have meter: 2B > 5B > 3C > 236A > Rapid Cancel > 2C > 6B > 2B > 5B > Jump Cancel > j.D > w[3C > j.A], etc.

Learning how to hitconfirm off of random hits is also something that you need to work on, and you'll begin to improve with this through experience (but feel free to ask about any given situation, and I'll present you with a plausible answer). Knowing what you can do off of certain starters is also quite important, and I noticed that you didn't know how to combo off of certain things such as a cornered 6C confirm, a gold burst, a 5C CH, etc (check the combo thread for details, or feel free to ask here). And of course, your execution needs a bit of tuning up as well; which will only come through practice.

You're not too bad actually, but you definitely need to put in a lot of work. You're already a step-ahead of the other beginner Valk's since you at the very least actively attempt to utilize wolf mode. You will improve in due time.

Collapsed: Valkenhayn vs Relius critique:

-5C > Nacht Jager > 2A x N. This is quite obviously a bad habit, as you already know.

-Seemed to be using a lot of random rising j.C's and raw 6C's midscreen

-2C > 6B confirm leads into 5.5k meterless midscreen. Use this combo: 2C > 6B > 5C > 236C > 9D > w[j.B > j.A] > 5D > 2C > 6C > 2C > j.214B > 1D > w[236B > j.236A > j.236B > 7C] > j.D > j.C > 2A > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A] > dj.D > j.C

-Try not to get into the habit of doing 6A on wake-up, it's an utterly terrible reversal

-Instead of using w[j.B], use w[j.A]. It's 3 frames faster (which is a big deal, trust me). Even though w[j.B] nets you slightly more damage, it's just not worth using it.

-To be quite honest, I wouldn't bother with the three w[j.A]'s after a w[5B] launch. Just do w[5B > j.A > j.236A > j.236B > 5C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.A > j.A > j.A] > dj.D > j.C instead. You will lose a very minuscule amount of damage, but you'll save wolf meter.

-Relius has very strong pressure, but lackluster mix-up. You can quite honestly downback and block all of his pressure for the most part (this way he will be depleting his Ignis gauge) and watch out for his slow 6A and react to it accordingly.

Collapsed: Valkenhayn vs Platinum critique:

-More rising j.C's and raw 6C's midscreen, this is seemingly a bad a habit

-From a w[5B] confirm in the corner, I'd suggest using this combo: w[5B > 236B > j.236B > 7C] > j.D > j.C > 2A > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A] > dj.D > j.C. You're currently using odd/CS2-like combos.

-If you land a j.C and notice that you're relatively far away from your opponent, opt for j.C > 2C > 236C instead of j.C > 2C > 6B > 5C > 236C since the 6B may whiff.

-Off of a 2C confirm on an aerial opponent you have quite a few options for confirming into a combo. Here are a few. You can do 2C > 6C in the corner, 2C > j.D > w[j.A] midscreen, and 2C > j.B > j.214B midscreen. The choice will be dependent on how much wolf meter you have, as midscreen combos that involve j.214B tend to do good damage while using quite a bit of wolf meter.

-Convert cornered 3C confirms into 236A.

-I wouldn't bother with gold bursts for right now.

-Remember, you can bait anti-airs with w[7C].

Collapsed: Valkenhayn vs Makoto critique:

-You kinda just flail around via wolf mode without purpose and waste wolf meter.

-Convert a counterhit w[236A] CH into w[5B].

-Make sure to keep close watch of your wolf meter!

-Confirm a 5C CH into 236C midscreen.

-Convert a midscreen throw into 236C

-You can low profile Makoto's DP with 2B.

Collapsed: Valkenhayn vs Hakumen critique:

-Remember, crouching confirms link into 236C.

-Aerial wolf combo grab links into w[j.236A]. Try not to pink throw as much though, it's a bad habit against most of the cast.

Collapsed: Valkenhayn vs Taokaka 2 critique:

-Not much to say here. More rising j.C's and raw 6C's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kiba, I do have some videos on there of Tsubaki as well (who is theoretically my main , so feel free to comment if you like!

Here.

If 5C>6C is really that bad of an idea, then when do you guys use 6C? After a 5B?

5C > 6C is obvious. Sometimes when I use 5C on block I use 6C, because 5C is -9 on block, so it's better than doing nothing. I do ocassionally use the 5C > 236B > 6D > stuff but I'm not fond of that and I'm only doing this because I used 5C on block. If all you do is 5B > 5C they'll learn to punish you in due time, hence why I say it's better to implement a faster/better mixup such as 5B > j.D > 3C > stuff (loses to mashing) or 5B > 3C.

Personally I tend to use 2C > 6C or 5B > 6C because you have more options from those normals, but I really use 6C as a throw bait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really use 6C as a throw bait.

It works wonders on 2A mashing too. I personally fear it's range, because even when I anticipate it after another blocked normal, my 5A and 5B often fall short of range, and it leads into a juicy FC, leaving behind a very sad Pikachu. Not to mention my 2C is a sad excuse for a reactionary anti-air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOTS OF COOL STUFF

Oh my gosh this is awesome! Thank you so much!

I had no idea crouching/CH 5C could confirm into 236C.

Didn't know you could follow up CH w.236A with w.B, that was one of the things I meant to ask!

Can j.C always confirm into 2C on hit or do you have to be at a certain/low height?

What should I follow up a blocked j.C with? Can I 2A or do I just have to block at that point?

Is raw 6C really that bad? At the tip, its range and hitbox is enormous, and even though you can't follow with anything, you get free pressure afterwards.

I will use w.A footsies more and quit the w.B.

I'll try to use 2B/5B blockstrings instead of 6C/j.C, but how do I get safely in range for that? Part of what's attractive to me about 5C, j.C, and 6C is the great range.

Against Taokaka 3, I wonder...what should I have done differently?

Umm! I'm gonna work with some of this and come back with more questions later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can j.C always confirm into 2C on hit or do you have to be at a certain/low height?

Only on falling j.C's. If we could combo off of a rising j.C without meter that would be pretty ridiculous. j.C does have a lot of hitstun though, so keep that in mind.

What should I follow up a blocked j.C with? Can I 2A or do I just have to block at that point?

You can follow-up a blocked j.C with plenty of things. I personally go for 2B most of the time.

Is raw 6C really that bad? At the tip, its range and hitbox is enormous, and even though you can't follow with anything, you get free pressure afterwards.

Midscreen, it's terrible. Absolutely terrible. In the corner, it's slightly less terrible. The pushback on block (especially barrier block) is horrendous. You don't really get "free pressure" afterwards.

I'll try to use 2B/5B blockstrings instead of 6C/j.C, but how do I get safely in range for that? Part of what's attractive to me about 5C, j.C, and 6C is the great range.

Footsies, IAD pressure, rapid cancels, wolf movement utilization, etc, etc.

Watching some high level play will also give you better insight into Valkenhayn's neutral game.

Against Taokaka 3, I wonder...what should I have done differently?

There were quite a few missed opportunities. I spotted 8 places in which you could have converted into a combo but didn't.

Umm! I'm gonna work with some of this and come back with more questions later.

Anytime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, so 2B is safe after a blocked falling j.C???

I meant oki pressure if you land the 6C. I guess I don't really understand why it's so bad.

Bad:

Slow startup

No midscreen combo potential

Reset to neutral on block

Good:

Great range

Huge hitbox

+frames on block

Is it just super punishable on whiff even at range?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can quite obviously get DP'd out of it. But falling j.C > 2B is pretty damn tight. Remember, j.C is a level 3 attack and 2B is relatively quick in start-up at 9 frames. Don't expect the opponent to just 2A mash you out of it, because it wont happen.

It's unwise to do random raw 6C's midscreen because you're essentially mashing out a 25 frame overhead that leads into absolutely nothing whether you have meter or not/whether it's a counterhit or not. Not to mention the fact that it is extremely slow and you can very easily be hit out of it. 6C isn't even geschwind cancellable on hit unlike something such as 3C > 236A (wherein 236A is geschwind cancellable on hit) so applying further pressure involves you immediately transforming into wolf (7 frames) after recovering from 6C, then immediately rushing forward via 5C while splurging out a plethora of wolf meter (and this is assuming that the opponent doesn't tech backwards). Additionally, if the 6C is barrier blocked you're pushed quite far away from your opponent. And, it is, very easy to react to/block.

Midscreen human pressure largely consists of lows and occasion frame traps, so throwing out a 6C every once in a while in a blockstring such as 2B > 5B > 6B > 2B > 5B > 6C can be relatively decent in keeping your opponent honest. But, throwing out raw 6C's on a continuous basic while midscreen is not a good idea.

I mean, imagine a Hazama player running around and mashing out raw 6B's. While 6B is + on block, leads into a combo on CH/with meter, and hits low; it's still not a good thing to be doing (our 6C is slightly different as it hits high and has better range, yet it leads into nothing, has bad pushback, etc, etc).

In short, it's just not a good thing to do; and there's a reason that you'll never see it being done at high levels of play (we honestly don't even see Valkenhayn's 6C at high levels of play too often, even in the corner or in a legitimate blockstring).

So yeah. You have much better options than raw midscreen 6C's, I assure you. I understand that it's a bad habit and one that feels so natural/fluid when starting off (I used to do it as well when I first started) but I'd strongly recommend that you part ways with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's unwise to do random raw 6C's midscreen because it isn't even geschwind cancellable on hit unlike something such as 3C > 236A. And, it is, very easy to react to/block.

This is a given. Just wondering though, isn't wolf henshin'ing on startup relatively ambiguous? Just because it's easy to deal with on block, doesn't mean you have to make contact with the opponent.

I mean, imagine a Hazama player running around and mashing out raw 6B's. While 6B is + on block, leads into a combo on CH/with meter, and hits low;

Not to mention it's a yomi/god reaction confirm without CH with meter.

*sniffle

At least let this move launch on normal hit. Or do a bajillion dmg.

EDIT:

Is it just super punishable on whiff even at range?

The recovery on this move on whiff is actually quite lenient when compared to anyone else's 5B/5C on whiff. I have a hard time punishing it with anything damaging unless I'm expecting it to whiff. But honestly, I don't see how you are whiffing this at all. Unless you closed your eyes and hit the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, new blazblue player.

I'm a pad player and I'm having a REAL hard time cancelling Nacht Jaeger into Storm wulf; any execution tips? I can do storm wulf just fine by itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there. Welcome to DL and the Valkenhayn forums.

I may be able to shed a little light on this. Nacht Jaeger cannot be cancelled into Sturm Wulf, but what you need to do is very slightly delay the following 632146D input. If you do it too quickly, what will happen is that you drive cancel it into 6D. By slightly delaying the input for the super, you avoid going into wolf form like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure? Mission mode has you canceling Nacht Jaeger into Sturm wulf.

Thanks so much for the input help by the way!

Edit: I should of specified, I'm attempting to do Challenge #4; and this is where I'm getting stuck (2B,3C,236A, Sturm Wulf)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's just as Kiba said. You can't cancel Nacht Jaeger into Sturm Wulf, but 3C>236A>Sturm will combo. You just need to delay the super enough that you don't wolf cancel Jaeger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to have read Kiba's post wrong! I thought he meant that Nacht Jaegar doesn't combo into Sturm wulf at all

I see now, thanks to both of you! I still can't get it, but I contribute that to being a pad player and that it's a really odd motion to do on pad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it's an awkwardly long delay. Once you the timing down it's pretty free though.

If you're not confident with it mid-match you can opt for something such as 5B > 3C > Sturm Wolf which will net you similar results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×