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[CSE] CS2 -> CSE Lambda Changes

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Glancing at the mook. Will be updated if errors are found, as well as if there are any missed notes once the mook is fully translated.

Lambda hasn't changed that much. In terms of optimal damage, from her best practical damage to her CV optimal combo's, she's been toned down. Everything in CSE is basically possible in CS2. If not, there were better alternatives in CS2. Her buffs are tiny and scattered, but her nerfs are noticeable.

Her Heat Gain (HG) and Damage have been increased for a lot of her A and B normals, as well as her Throw.

Her A pokes (5A, 2A, j.A) all do 300 damage now. Some normals have noticeably lower P1's (2C, 3C, 4B[#2 only]). A few Specials have different P2's, as well as different (worse) Repeat Move Prorations (RMP).

2DD > 6C is back as a gatling / chain.

2DD > 4B is now possible.

4DD > 4B is now possible.

Her Drive does not appear to have changed.

(partially subjective)

Buffs +

- 5A Damage +, HG +

- 2A Damage +, HG +

- j.A Damage +, HG +

- 5B HG +

- 2B Damage +, HG +

- j.B Damage +, HG +

- Throws Damage +, HG +

- 236D~C

Less CH frames

- 632146D Untech +

- j.632146D Untech +

- 222D

(No cool down) ?

- New gatlings

Nerfs -

- From 5 Primers to 4 Primers

- 4B[#2 only] P1 -

RMP 75%

- 5C[1-8] P2 -

Hold on for follow-up hits

Harder to delay and stagger

- Counter Assault

slightly more punishable

- j.214D

no longer takes a primer

- 236C RMP 40%

- 236236D

Cool down increased

Neutral + -

- System Changes

- 2C P1 -

11-34 frames Head invincible ? +

- 3C P1 -

CH 1-3 carry, follow-up possible if cancelled within these hits

- 236B P1 -

P2 +

If not listed, then the move hasn't changed, or only has minor changes.

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Here are all of the changes I found. It's possible that there are notes that I couldn't understand.

Normals

- 5A

130 to 300

HG 53 to 124

- 2A

110 to 300

HG 45 to 124

- 6A

Not changed

- j.A

110 to 300

HG 45 to 124

- 5B

HG 90 to 169

- 2B

230 to 380

HG 95 to 157

- 6B

Not changed

- 4B

Not changed

- 4B[#2 only]

P1 86 to 65

800 to 880

Notes list RMP as 75

- j.B

340 to 440

HG 140 to 182

- 5C[1-8]

P2 99 to 98

Hold on for subsequent hits

Staggering still possible, but harder

- 2C

P1 100 to 80

-9 to -8

11-34 frames head invincible ?

- 3C

P1 90 to 70

CH 1-3 carry, not able to emergency tech ?

- 6C

Not changed

- j.C

Not changed

- j.2C

Not changed

- Throws

700 to 1000

HG 0,289 to 0,414

Untech 12,56 to 23,56 (doesn't matter)

- Air Throw

Untech 12,60 to 23,60 (doesn't matter)

- Counter Assault

Recovery 27 to 32

-11 to -15

Takes a Primer (everyone's CA takes away one of their own Primers)

Drive

- 5D

Not changed

- 5[D]D

Not changed

- 2D

can cancel until 19 frames (CS2 frame data lists 32 and 19)

- 2[D]D

6C new gatling

4B new gatling

- 6D

Not changed

- 6[D]D

Not changed

- 4D

Not changed

- 4[D]D

4B new gatling

- j.D

Not changed

- j.[D]D

Not changed

- j.2D

Not changed

- j.2[D]D

Not changed

Specials

- 214D

Hitstop change from 15 to 16 ?

- 214D~C

Hitstop change from 15 to 16 ?

- 236D

Not changed

- 236D~C

CH from 47 to 32

- 214A

Hitstun 46 to 44

- Gravity Field

Not changed

- j.214D

No longer takes a Guard Primer

- j.214D~C

Not changed

- 236A

Hasn't changed

- 236B

P1 100 to 90

P2 70 to 80

- 236C

RMP 75 to 40

- 236236D

Cool down 180 to 375

- 632146D

Untech 100 to 164

- j.632146D

Untech 100 to 164

- 222D

No cool down ?

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Lambda's not too much different. A few things have changed though.

She now has 4 Primers. Counter Assaults take a Primer permanently for the round. System Changes are a double-edged sword, of course.

eg. 5DD > 236B > RC > 5DD > 236C > 5DD > 236C

There's less of a reason to do this in CSE. In CS2, this was good for corner carry, had decent damage, and decent Heat Gain. This isn't as viable in CSE. Gravity combo's are thus more important for Damage, Heat Gain, and effective corner carry.

eg. (corner) X > 5C[8] > 6C > 236C > Dashing 5C[8] > 6C > 236C > Dashing 5C[8] > 4B[#2 only] > 2DD > air ender

This also means you'll only be able be able to do two 236C's in a combo at most, and you'd only want to do that for corner carry, or in a corner combo leading to a set-up.

5C's P2 being changed doesn't mean much. It'll be very noticeable in longer combo's, and, ignoring other nerfs, it makes her CS2 optimal CV combo's no longer even close to possible. 5C and 4B were amazing normals for her greater combo's, but with both nerfed, these combo's are no longer possible. Practically, both have noticeably been nerfed, so if you get a good punish starter or a good pick-up in the corner, you won't want to be using 5C as much as before, and you might not want to use 4B[#2 only] more than once as well.

You can also hold down 5C and it's subsequent hits will follow-up without a need for mashing. It's possible to delay her 5C, just like CS2, but it's much harder.

eg. 3C[3] CH > 236D/214D/236C

With up to 3 hits to hitconfirm, this is one of Lambda's much safer and easier CH-confirm combo choices. Useful in many places, such as in staggered pressure.

eg. 2B > 3C > 236B > RC > 5DD > 236C > Dashing 5C[8] > 214A > TK > Dashing 6B > 2C > air ender

That's a new ender Yoshiki uses quite a bit, if I'm not mistaken. Japanese Lambda players have adapted and are doing different combo's for optimal damage.

This hasn't changed since CS2, but it's worth noting that if you want optimal damage, Drive isn't going to be used a lot, if at all, until the air ender.

Here's her gatling chart. Maybe they made some mistakes or omissions, probably it's because I can't read the notes too well.

5A > 5A(whiff)/5B/5C/2A/2B/2C/6A/6B/4B/6C/3C/Throw

5B > 5C/2B/2C/6A/6B(press5Bworkstoo)/6C/3C/Throw

5C > 5C(whiff)/2C/4B(whiff?)*/6C/3C

2A > 5A/5B/5C/2A(whiff)/2B/2C/6A/6B/4B/6C/3C/Throw

2B > 5C/2C/6B(press5Bworkstoo)/4B/6C/3C/Throw

2C > 5C/6C/3C

6A > 5B/5C/2B/2C/6B/4B/6C/3C/Throw

6B > 5C/2C/4B/6C/3C

4B > nothing

6C > nothing

3C > nothing

5D > 4D

5DD > 2D/6D/4D

2DD > 6D/4D/4B/6C

6DD > 2D/6D ??

4DD > 4B

j.A > j.A (on whiff?) /j.B/j.2C/Throw

j.B > j.A/j.C/j.2C/Throw

j.C > j.A/j.2C/Throw

j.2C > j.B

*5C on whiff should still cancel into 4B and 3C and 6C. I only noticed 4B had something that looked like it indicated it could cancel on whiff. Not really of great importance.

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I told you! CSEX Lambda is much much worse than in CS2. :'( And all that makes me sad(

Not only because of damage nerfs. Proration nerfs -> combos shorter -> less heat gain -> even more less damage and less options in neutral. :psyduck:

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It's relative, of course. So there're the match-ups themselves, which are more dependant on the other characters than Lambda, mostly. Her neutral game is still one of the strongest in the game, and that's why Lambda always has a fighting chance.

As a character compared to her previous iteration, yeah, she got nerfed. This just means the Lambda community has to learn her harder combo's and tighten their neutral game.

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Thanks for the hard work~

If there's stuff you aren't sure about, post up the original text and I'm sure we can get it straightened out.

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Just found some slight errors.

- 5C 1-8 P2 should be 99 to 98 instead of 90 to 98.

- 236B P2 should be 70 to 80 instead of 75 to 80.

-236B damage should be 1300 instead of 1250 (saw on a wiki that it was 1300 dmg now, could be wrong).

Those are the only errors I found.

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Thanks. Fixed.

The mook says 236B is still 1250, but I can double-check with a combo I guess.

Here's just so you guy's know exactly how I checked it.

2B > 3C > 236B

Damage gap between 3C and 236B is 691 - 1363 = 672

(.85).80*.86*.92*1300

Character Combo Rate (CCR) = 85%

(CCR) * P1 of 2B * P2 of 2B * P2 of 3C * Damage of 236B (1300 or 1250) = 699.42 or 672.52 respectively

Thus, 236B still has 1250 damage.

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They've only got a few typo's. Between trusting the mook and trusting the wiki, I trust the mook a bit more. That's not to say that the mook doesn't have errors, since Lambda's might indeed have a few errors...

The only ones I know of are 236B doing 1300, 236C having 92 P2, 4B having 80 RMP, and 6C having 85 RMP. The rest look alright.

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Alright, so KayEff has released Lambda's frame data and I'll be taking a better look at that later tonight.

However, that doesn't mean he won't update it (he probably will), as he has with other characters.

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