[CSE] XBL Match Finder/GG Thread v2

[Chaoschao222]

Next time, though... next time I'll keep Seras longer

[Dark Ranger88]

Next time, though... next time I'll keep Seras longer

What does that mean?

[Chaoschao222]

The Noel color I pick is based on Seras Victoria. Whenever I start to lose frequently, I'll switch to the 'zombie' palette, and have to work my way back up to Seras Noel by winning matches; going from Zombie to Default to Seras. I was on Default Noel a lot.

Just a dorky thing I do.

[abadlime]

The Noel color I pick is based on Seras Victoria. Whenever I start to lose frequently, I'll switch to the 'zombie' palette, and have to work my way back up to Seras Noel by winning matches; going from Zombie to Default to Seras. I was on Default Noel a lot.

Just a dorky thing I do.

so i'm not the only one who does this...

[Starlight777]

The Noel color I pick is based on Seras Victoria. Whenever I start to lose frequently, I'll switch to the 'zombie' palette, and have to work my way back up to Seras Noel by winning matches; going from Zombie to Default to Seras. I was on Default Noel a lot.

Just a dorky thing I do.

How odd I do the same thing with Platinum working my way from Monochrome to Purple.

[Airk]

I dunno, I don't recall seeing a lot of air approaches from you. That gives me pretty much full run of the air and a heck of a lot more mobility than I'm entitled to.

I feel like when I come at Tager from the air, he beats all my air normals with his j.C, and half the time I just go flying into a People's Elbow, which really ruins my day. Also, if I'm not jumping much, it helps me avoid doing dumb things like jumping into fullscreen Atomic Collider which magnetized. x.x

Though I think I've seen you take to the sky very slightly more as of the last meeting or two. Full disclosure: one of the reasons I noticed your lack of jumping is that I can never catch you jumping out of GF.

Well, the reason for THAT is that, honestly, it doesn't seem like a good option for me; Jumping out of GF only "wins" if you do a throw/buster/720, all of which lose to a DP as well, or if you do nothing/backdash, in which case I might as well have just blocked. I imagine there are levels of mindgames where jumpout is the option that beats the largest number of the things I think you're going to do, but I haven't gotten there. Also, you hardly EVER go for a 360 after GF, which removes a lot of the scare factor.

Since I know I'm the weird one who'll just volunteer information, I'll just ask, in lieu of having any specific questions: do you have any specific advice (note: anyone's input would be appreciated)? I know it's been some time between then and now, so if you can't remember anything, that's fine.

My major comment remains that I don't think you 'rep' 720 and Magnatech wheel enough; Especially on your wakeup. It feels like I can pretty much do whatever I want on you when you're getting up, and if you mix in a few more wakeup DDs, I'll have to start respecting you once you get 50 heat, which will make my life much harder. x.x

[LunaKage]

Okay. I'll try to tell you specifically what I mean.

When a compotent player is facing you for the first time, you probably noticed that they start jumping A LOT and baiting the 720 the instant you hit 50 heat.

For example:

This is what probably discouraged you from using it that much in the first place. Because whenever you have access to it, it seems like they are waiting for it. ~ Nombre's mind: "Damn...this move ALWAYS gets beat. Fuck this move."

Now...not 720ing against new opponents has probably served you well. Unless they are retarded, a new opponent will always bait the 720 at some point during the course of a round. This will cause them to let up their pressure and can easily lead to a momentum swing in your favor.

However...After a few matches your opponent will catch on and adapt to YOUR playstyle. They KNOW that you are not going to 720, so they become much more aggressive. They likely use Okizeme and blockstrings that cover all of your other escape options because they are confident in the fact that you won't use GETB.

I personally do 2A on your wakeup. It recovers in time to beat a backdash and leads into a low/high/frametrap/throw mixup

This is why it seems like your opponents are always smothering you with mixup that is difficult to block, pressure that is hard to escpae, and throw setups that are difficult to react to online.

When your opponent starts regularly doing things like this (Standing in front of you and attacking on your wakeup; doing long pressure strings or using stagger pressure; throwing you; using overheads) THAT IS WHEN YOU 720 THEM.

By "be more noobish with your 720s" I mean do stuff like GETB after a neutral tech or GETB as soon as you get enough heat. Your opponent is banking on the fact that you won't use the 720 at a predictable time because you have conditioned them to think that way.

Serious advice here.... Once you realize that an opponent is not respecting you do this: block the first attack of their blockstring, spin the stick as fast as you can while rapidly tapping C. This will 720 as soon as there is a hole in their blockstring. EVEN IF YOU DON'T HIT THEM WITH IT (and I'm willing to bet that 9 times out of 10 you WILL catch them), it will show them that you are willing to use that move. After you do this a few times they will start to end their pressure early again and not throw out overheads or throws as much. They will revert to how they were when you first played them. They will be afraid of the 720.

And don't feel dirty or cheap because you 720 someone with the above tactic. THEY should feel dirty and cheap for having the audacity to do shit like 2A (gap) 2A (gap) 2A (gap) 66 throw on TAGER while he's sitting on 50 heat. If your opponent is doing whatever they want against you they DESERVE to have their faces slammed into the ground with little to no effort on your part.

Once you get 50 heat your opponent will be scared to do any serious kind of mixup against you. They will spend most of their time jump cancelling and ending blockstrings early, making your time on defense much easier.

Use the 720 as a check on their aggression. If you notice them being overly aggressive, throw out some 720s until they start backing off.

tldr; First few matches against a new opponent: don't 720. After that 720 on wakeup and during their blockstrings.

Edit: I have done 2A (gap) 2A (gap) 2A (gap) 66 throw against you. That didn't come from nowhere. I feel that, whenever we play, you should win a lot more than you do (and probably at least be even with me). You just don't use Tager's powerful tools as much as you should.

You can pretty much say this about Noel's 4D too lol

[Airk]

That was a super good post by Darkranger; Does a much better job of explaining what I feel is missing from Tager than I did. Though I'm a big fan of Tager mixing in the occasional MagnaTech Wheel with their 720s. The reward isn't quite as high (though IIRC, Tager can still get a pretty juicy combo off a raw MTW) but it beats a lot of stupid jump shenanigans that win out over GETB. (Including "not really meaty" jump ins on wakeup). So there are times when you may want to just throw that one out there too.

[Dark Ranger88]

You can pretty much say this about Noel's 4D too lol

Geez. That move is hard to deal with as Makoto. The only moves I have that are both body and foot attribute are Big Bang Smash and Particle Flare.

[Bibiquadium]

4D can be beaten by 2B and Grab, 2D you can 6A or j.Grab but its 50/50 because it has to be done on prediction and not reaction so you cannot over commit on Noel

[Errol]

you can grab 2d. granted not in the middle of pressure.

[Dark Ranger88]

Wow. Thanks guys.

Wish I knew how to handle Noels that 4D/2D out of my pressure though. I really have to stop doing 5CC against her in blockstrings.

[Errol]

if you 5cc you're probably going to be taking a rest, but it's somewhat true against any character. lunatic will beat 2d and brake throw will beat 4d. there are other options too, AV isn't particularly dangerous, it's only dangerous if you are predictable with it.

you can't use shooting star to try to call out her stuff like other reversals though.

similarly 5cc>2c will beat 4d and 5cc>6b will beat 2d.

[Bibiquadium]

Only a Noel who mashes really hard to mash drives in someone's pressure, which is 90% of the netplay Noels so it's ok to be preemptive about it.

[Dark Ranger88]

similarly 5cc>2c will beat 4d and 5cc>6b will beat 2d.

Lol I used to do this. It turned my corner pressure into a big game of "Who's Gonna Eat 5K This Time!?!?!?!"

I'll probably go back to it. Landing those 2Cs always feels realllly good.

[Errol]

the unfortunate thing about the noel matchup is that in most ways (In this particular matchup and this particular matchup only) she's just a better version of Makoto. All her pokes beat all your pokes, etc. Usually not so clear cut but I think it is here.

totally playable though.

[LunaKage]

Wow. Thanks guys.

Wish I knew how to handle Noels that 4D/2D out of my pressure though. I really have to stop doing 5CC against her in blockstrings.

Using 5A> 2A is a good os. 5A beats 2D, and if it whiffs through 4D, 2A will beat it before 4D goes active.

[mAc Chaos]

It's been so long since I fought Noel. I'm probably super rusty.

[Errol]

Using 5A> 2A is a good os. 5A beats 2D, and if it whiffs through 4D, 2A will beat it before 4D goes active.

yeah, this is pretty good. though you now risk getting 2a'd, or thrown.

with 5as that hit crouchers you can also just mash the hell out of 5a till you get a hit. ha.

[Mucky]

when i'm playing any noel i just mash tager 2d over and over

NEVER FAILS

[Chaoschao222]

What if you get 5B'd, Mucky?

[mAc Chaos]

mash 720 and wait for lag spike

[Chaoschao222]

[Errol]

mash 720 and wait for lag spike

Mucky doesn't wait for lag spikes to come. He takes things into his own hands.

[LunaKage]

I always chuckle when I get hit out of drive by Tagers 2D, it's the one thing in that matchup that makes me say: "Yep, that was my bad"