Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Villainous

Slayer vs. Chipp

Recommended Posts

This is an interesting fight. High damage Slayer vs. low health Chipp. Evasion and trickery vs. Slayer's defensive, pick your moment to strike style, atleast in this fight. This is supposedly Chipp's worst match up, I believe, but it's by no means EASY for Slayer, in fact this fight is almost about as much work as fighting Potemkin, if it's against a good Chipp. Since Chipp has to play extra cautious in this fight, don't expect to be handed easy mistakes to punish. Chipp can zone you somewhat well, and he has the ability to stay way above your threat range when he needs room to breath. Usually Chipp will be picking the fights here, so you have to simply defend and look for that opening. Chipp's c.S gives him a lot of frame advantage and sets up some good pressure, so be cautious of it. He also can be extremely hard to anti air, since he can avoid approaching you from where you are a threat. If you want to try stopping his air approach, your best bet is to use j.K or air throw. 2S will actually lose out to chipp's j.D at certain ranges, and it comes out extremely fast so it's difficult to anti air him on reaction once he gets into your desired anti air space. Your best bet in this fight is not to let Chipp get above you to set up cross ups and trickery. Air throw helps a lot with this, as does j.K. Also, his teleports can be beaten with various things. His air teleports lose to air throw, and his teleport behind you, if spotted quickly, can be punished with 2H. For punishing, 2S works wonders vs. his uppercut, it can punish him before he can FRC it. Alpha Blade can be punished with DOT for free, and if you instant block the second hit of his rekka, you can punish that with BBU. His third hit of his rekka can be BBUed on reaction as well. One more thing to keep in mind in this fight is 2P. Generally Chipp's rush leaves occasional small gaps to continue pressure, and 2P will usually be quick enough to slip in and continue to 2K 2H combo. 2P will also beat his 6K and leaf grab, so that limits his mix ups if you react fast. Remember to FD to push him out as well and punish a whiffed attack with 2H. Also, be wary of his back dash since it gives him a lot of ground. Look for when you opponent likes to use it and K mappa him, then carry them to the corner and combo for free. Chipp dies in 2-3 mistakes so make those hits count! To copy Crimson Disaster, the top moves in this fight are: Chipp: 1) Running away like a girl 2) j.D 3) 2D 4) c.S 5) 6P Slayer: 1) 2P 2) j.K 3) Mappa 4) 2H 5) j.H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah it has lower body invincibility for a lot of the move. If you do 2H really late though it can beat it out. But yeah, gotta be careful about the low pokes with him, mix in some 5K and what not to keep him honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To copy Crimson Disaster, the top moves in this fight are:

Chipp:

1) Running away like a girl

2) j.D

3) Gamma Blade

4) c.S

5) Air Throw

Slayer:

1) 2P

2) j.K

3) Mappa

4) 2H

5) j.H

Imo, having played Chipp since I started playing Slayer (so when I picked up GGXX), Chipp's Gamma Blade is only a threat because it can extend his combos. Outside of his knockdown into Gamma Blade, I've rarely ever seen it used by itself because on block it opens Chipp up to punishment. Even when not blocked, there's always a chance for a Slayer to IAD-j.HS, netting a CH into => death. Just for reference, although Gamma Blade is +5 on block, it has a 21 frame recovery animation, plenty of time to make him eat damage.

Instead, I'd have to say either 6P or 6H. I find Chipp's 6P to be rather subtle to notice, and like other 6P's, has upper body invincibility. As for 6H: it gives Chipp some very deceptive range, as well as potential to combo into some hard hitting damage.

I can't argue with running away, or c.s, since they're essentially core Chipp tactics. Teleportation and j.D and j.2k (I think it was the spinning kick downwards?) make for very nice mix up options.

Another note that I'd like to throw in is that Chipp has VERY limited overhead options, in the sense that all his overheads are extremely predictable and/or obvious. He has 6K (which is incredibly slow and easy to spot), 5D (comes out relatively fast, but still easy to block), 3rd hit of his Rekka chain (BBU'able), and for all purposes, leaf grab (counterable via 2P/5P). Thus I suggest blocking low, since his 2D and his 2K are lightning fast and can lead to damaging combos.

As for Slayer, 2S DOES NOT beat Chipp's j.D. I've found out the hard way. However, I have found, oddly enough, that 5P can either beat or clash with Chipp's j.D. But don't quote me on this, I've only managed to pull it off once in awhile. Blocking Chipp's j.D is a safe option.

I think that's about it. I'll summarize this post when I feel like it =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Gamma Blade isn't that great. Still... +5 on block is advantage on block. It just isn't safe to throw out since it's so slow on whiff (like 50+ frames of "please CH me"). His 6H isn't that great against Slayer. It's a pretty decent anti-air that gives him big damage combos, and that's about it. 6P is a way better move... definitely one of Chipp's best moves, period. 2D as well. Chipp doesn't need to run away from Slayer that much, he just needs to abuse his moves that Slayer doesn't have easy answers to. Once he gets a knockdown he can go to town against Slayer with FDC crossups, which are a pain to block properly, much less get out of. There are a few tricks depending on timing and such to get out of it entirely but blocking it is way safer. For Slayer... Mappa isn't that hot. Punishes backdash or whatever but when is Chipp going to backdash? If he's going to commit suicide he might as well uppercut because that has more invul, does damage, and has an FRC. Or just block, really. So then what? It's just a combo filler. Pilebunker is pretty good in this fight. You can Dandy -> PB a lot of Chipp's moves if you guess right. FB version is obviously better to randomly throw out since it's a bit safer. I've anti-aired Chipp's jD with early PBs at certain spacings before, it looks really funny. PB isn't quite as good as the XX/#R days where Chipp would automatically lose if he ate CH PB, but it's still a pretty good move to fish for. Dunno about top 5, but it's better than Mappa IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once he gets a knockdown he can go to town against Slayer with FDC crossups, which are a pain to block properly, much less get out of. There are a few tricks depending on timing and such to get out of it entirely but blocking it is way safer.

Not sure on this, but can't Slayer just dash to escape FDC crossups? Backdash would probably be preferable, but if you get crossed up you get a forward dash which also has invul at the beginning. From what it looks like, the fake/crossup doesn't hit perfectly meaty after a 2D knockdown, so this should be fairly doable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure on this, but can't Slayer just dash to escape FDC crossups? Backdash would probably be preferable, but if you get crossed up you get a forward dash which also has invul at the beginning. From what it looks like, the fake/crossup doesn't hit perfectly meaty after a 2D knockdown, so this should be fairly doable.

how deep into slayer's hitbox will the cross-up attempt be? because i know for sure that forward dash doesn't give full invincibility like backdash. however, i honestly don't remember where i saw this (might've been somewhere on RomanCancel.com), but i thought forward dash only gave upper invul from the beginning, then after some frame, it becomes fully invincible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sj. variant of the FDC fake/crossup j.H would barely nick Slayer's head if done close to meaty, but I'm not too sure on the regular rj. variant. I don't know about AC Slayer's invul during forward dash, but in #Reload I am pretty sure it was full body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Atleast in my experience vs. a cross up happy chipp on wakeup, backdashing isn't really the best option, because if he gets on the other side of you while you input a backdash, you'll forward dash which he will hit and get free damage. If they do it close enough to meaty, forward dash definitely doesn't go invulnerable fast enough to get out of anything. I usually just try to block on wakeup vs him since attempting to backdash out of cross ups usually gets me hit. Crimson: Fixed chipp's move list, I totally forgot about 6P and 2D, which are both great moves. Especially 2D which beats like all of slayer's low options. As for PB being better than Mappa......I'm not sure about that. It's unsafe, and mappa can be used as a movement tool too to get to the other side of the screen if you need to chase him down or get away from him when he's above you. PB seems too risky to me, although it does have some uses in this fight. Maybe I just don't like the move that much though. I miss the CH wall bounce. Stupid wall stick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sj. variant of the FDC fake/crossup j.H would barely nick Slayer's head if done close to meaty, but I'm not too sure on the regular rj. variant. I don't know about AC Slayer's invul during forward dash, but in #Reload I am pretty sure it was full body.

so how come in #R, no one was doing FDC Mappa to avoid attacks, but only BDC Mappa?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alrighty, Chipp......sigh:psyduck:

First let me say this, CHIPP IS BY ALL MEANS NO PUSHOVER!!

Now, this is a match-up that i'm very familiar with and i must say that this is a match-up that will truly test your defensive capabilities meaning......U MUST BLOCK!!! If u go into this battle thinkin "Hey, all i gotta do is hit him 1 time and it's over" so u try to rush him down to land that "1 hit". Unless the chipp ur playing against sux at defense, U WILL LOSE THAT WAY!!! U should play calmly and wait for an opening. I would say that the safest way to do this is to fight chipp on the ground. pretty much all of chipp's air normals come out before slayer's and once u get hit, ur gonna hit the ground. This is where this match-up gets stupid.

Here r a few things to look for when ur knocked down by chipp and some options in counterattackin:

- HS teleport droppin down with a meaty j.HS(This 1 is a bit tricky because chipp can do the move where it hits u once or twice and there is really no way of knowing which 1 chipp will do so u must be cautious.)

Option 1) Block the first hit of the j.HS and Slashback the 2nd hit in order to give an opening for a combo but b cautious because if he only hit u with 1 hit of the j.HS then u may get combo'd. Example) 2K > 2HS > BBU > HS > IAD > j.D > j.2K > j.D (u can do much more than that but that just for the sake of the example)

Option 2 ) If ur good at reversal BD u can BD airthrow chipp for a knockdown and mix-up opportunity although it's very risky so don't attempt unless ur consistent with ur reversal BD timing.

Option 3) Gotta have 25% tension for this 1. U can reversal Dandy(K) and FRC to avoid the attack completely as well put a lil bit of distance between u and chipp. Although this should only b attempted if ur consistent with ur reversal Dandy(K) timing.

- HS teleport droppin down with a meaty j.HS but canceling it into an air Alpha Blade

(Now this chipp tactic is very dangerous because it makes u think that u have an opening so will try to move or attack after the blocked j.HS and get hit allowing chipp to land a free combo and or knockdown)

Option 1) Just block(IB if u can) and only try to punish if he flies into the corner with the Alpha Blade. Otherwise b cautious try to react to what he does next.

Option 2) BD airthrow

Option 3) reversal Dandy(K) and FRC because chipp is gonna try to the Alpha Blade after he hits u so if he doesn't touch u.....no Alpha yay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. gamma is great vs. slayer when used max range, so watch out for that 2. slayer's 5p is an excellent anti air against chipp 3. beware of chipp's 5k, 5 frames startup, nice range and now gatlings into 2D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so how come in #R, no one was doing FDC Mappa to avoid attacks, but only BDC Mappa?

I don't recall FDC having full body invul... plus BDC probably had more invul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

p dandy step as okizemi is a good counter to reversal beta blade.BB will wiff and you end up on the other side, with even enough time to land a HS while chip is in the air. This is the only strat i ever found out on my own. IM very proud of myself

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't recall FDC having full body invul... plus BDC probably had more invul.

yeah that's my point (see Teyah's post that I quoted).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure invincibility only carries over through backdash into moves. Forward dash does have invincibility but the moment you cancel it, it goes away. If it did carry over, forward dash into bite would be broken, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BDC was used because it had 19 (or 17?) frames of invul instead of FDC which only had 11. Not sure on fullbody / non-fullbody invul status though. Villainous: In #R, forward dash into stuff did carry its invul after canceling, so FDC bite was definitely very invincible (and very scary). I think the change to FDC and canceling came about in Slash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay let's not talk about this in the Chipp match-up thread, sorry for being party to it, myself. we can carry this over to another thread (even the random discussion thread).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok...time to open this thread up again...I have a problem...can't do shit to this character. Sure I kill him if I hit him, but I can't hit him. So lets stop with the speculation and let's actually talk about what you CAN do against him. We all know what he can do to you...I've barely heard what you can do to him(for the exception of 1 post so far).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What can Slayer do against Chipp? Out prioritize and do hefty damage like always? Suffice it to say this match is all in control of the Chipp player. That means, you should be on the defensive. All Slayer can do is watch carefully, predict and capitalize on the Chipps mistakes. No chasing. Just wait for Chipp's approach, guess correctly and punish or guess incorrectly get punished and try you best to block/escape pressure. Chipp acts, you retaliate. Chipp has to hit you like 4-5 times to your 2-3. If you play it right you'll win just because of the amount of mistakes you can take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally agree with you on this...now my question is...how is this match in Slayer's favor again? Because if it's just because he can kill chipp in like 2-3 combos then I'm not seeing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would imagine the insane priority you have over him. You also have much better pokes. Not to mention you can 5H him out of his command throw for beautiful pain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok please explain that to me...out-prioritize what exactly? If you're talking about 2p, he can 6p that and beat it out easily. We've already discussed that 2S will lose to his jD. Maybe j.k but he can j.S or j.K and beat that out too. And no good chipp player is going to haphazardly throw out the leaf grab. So what move do I out-prioritize him on exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×