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MikelAL93

[CSE] Platinum vs. Rachel

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Been doing over 50 matches, last weekend against my friend ... my advice ... Switch character :vbang:

Basic stuff:

1. Jump over A lobs

2. Run Under B/C lobs

3. Her j.2c can be crouch blocked

4. Don't press j.c no matter how much you love your j.c... just don't. use Swarrow Moon or whatever other than j.c.

And she has funky hit box? i don't remember i have trouble doing 22c bnb at her on cs2.

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Basic stuff?

Basic stuff:

1. 2B A lobelia it's free.

2. 5B is a good poke.

3. bombs and missiles ruin her zoning use bombs and missiles.

4. bubble oki does not work, do not use bubble oki.

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Bubble oki does work if you time it right, but it's pretty much not worth it anyway.

Bombs and missles are strong.

236A is pretty lulzy against her, sometimes.

j.C works against Rachel just fine. What's wrong with it?

I don't believe her hitbox has changed. 22C combos should be the same as before.

Pretty much the same game as any other rtsd character vs Rachel, except Plat sometimes has ranged answers and sometimes has a DP.

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Basic stuff?

Basic stuff:

1. 2B A lobelia it's free.

2. 5B is a good poke.

3. bombs and missiles ruin her zoning use bombs and missiles.

4. bubble oki does not work, do not use bubble oki.

1. Won't the parabolic trajectory hit you? dealing with a lob usualy i just jump & j.c to ch her

2. never been on good range to start poking, on neutral, the Frog/ Pumpkin destroy my spacing

3. Bombs isn't really good unless she is cornered, Cat flail do the job better imo

4. Why?

Bubble oki does work if you time it right, but it's pretty much not worth it anyway.

Bombs and missles are strong.

236A is pretty lulzy against her, sometimes.

j.C works against Rachel just fine. What's wrong with it?

I don't believe her hitbox has changed. 22C combos should be the same as before.

Pretty much the same game as any other rtsd character vs Rachel, except Plat sometimes has ranged answers and sometimes has a DP.

I understand missiles, but Bombs? can u guys please elaborate?

and what's good with air persia? i use it sometimes to switch sides on block string, but that's just it.

About the use, of j.c i'm using it for jump in on near maximum range... unless she's summoning the frog, Rachell can just aa with 6a/2c/B or C lobs on reaction.

About 22c, haven't been practicing with her hit box, but i'm dropping a lot last week orz

and while at it, what did you guys do to people who chose to get hit by hammer instead of getting guard crushed mid screen?

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Bubble oki does work if you time it right, but it's pretty much not worth it anyway.

Bombs and missles are strong.

236A is pretty lulzy against her, sometimes.

j.C works against Rachel just fine. What's wrong with it?

I don't believe her hitbox has changed. 22C combos should be the same as before.

Pretty much the same game as any other rtsd character vs Rachel, except Plat sometimes has ranged answers and sometimes has a DP.

1. The bubble hits her OTG or she late neutral tech winds out.

2. agreed.

3. I never bothered using it yet but I can understand why.

4. 6A 6A 6A (you got hit gg's)

@ Excel:

1. If it's A lobelia 2B will go under it usually, you still have to space it though.

2. You can actually move around in a way to make pumpkin and frog less effective, you gotta learn how to do it to win though.

3. Bombs are hella good, especially since she likes to summon in the air, this makes pumpkin easier to deal with in my experience.

4. see #1 in response to Tari.

I will reiterate this: I told Xie bubble oki does not work on Rachel at NEC.

He goes to japan and learns bubble oki does not work on Rachel.

FYI bubble does not reset the combo if it hits her normally.

Do not bubble oki Rachel.

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bubble oki: Bubble oki is not worth it on her. I was just saying you can use bubble oki, it's just not safe or worthwhile. Which basically means what Axis said. When in doubt, don't.

...and, @axis, I thought Xie already knew about that from waaaay back, lol. Oh well.

approaching rachel: This is a problem most rtsd characters have when dealing with Rachel. Do you have any experience against Lamda or, say, Litchi? Once you figure out how to get in, your neutral game options open back up. It's not really something I can explain easily, though.

bombs, missles, etc.: Almost every item has a place in this matchup. Bombs are very good for keeping Rachel from attacking you or moving around freely. Similarly for missles. Pico hammers and frying pans are obviously the weakest items for actually trying to neutral game her, though. The cat hammer is reasonably good at shutting down ground summons, but not so good for anything else.

using j.C: Learn to bait the 6A. That's not an issue with the move being useless, that's an issue with not adapting its use to the situation. Use j.C at max range, do empty jumps, use swallow moon or double-jumps to delay your fall, etc.

hitting rachel out of lobelia: 1. the lobelias lose their hitbox when you hit her. 2. you can low profile A lobelia pretty easily. Try it out.

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Thanks for the fast response, to wind out neutral tech and get out of bubble oki? that can be done when Plat standing?

Bombs for mid air summoning & Pumpkin ... i'm using it for killing Frogs :vbang:

@Tari : I don't have problem with Litchi probably player fault but whatever.... afaik Litchi didn't really have any good anti air, and you can Bait Tsubame easily, on Rachel case, i can't bait her 6a at all... if her 6a whiff, Pumpkin will came, then frog ... ok that's the most extreme condition, i usually didn't let the frog out, but i can't stop the pumpkin.

hitting rachel out of lobelia: 1. the lobelias lose their hitbox when you hit her. 2. you can low profile A lobelia pretty easily. Try it out.

I really didn't know that :vbang:

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What are some good ways to counter/bait (Apart from just teching the grab) her stupid "Wind Tech > Grab"?

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What are some good ways to counter/bait (Apart from just teching the grab) her stupid "Wind Tech > Grab"?

..just tech the grab

it's fairly obvious, you shouldn't have much issue expecting it unless you're playing on netplay or something

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Rare XIE post about vs Rachel okizeme in the corner:

From Mami (single or double) knockdown, you can do Swallow Moon after the knockdown and if it's done correctly (spacing/timing) they will still land in front of you after the wind tech and you can still do a meaty j.c/j.b/j.a to beat a herp derp wind tech + throw. Even if they don't mash out the throw you can get a meaty here, so I think it's the safest okizeme against Rachel as your starting point.

The downside to this is that they can forward roll past you in some situations, so you need to either be really good at reacting to the roll with the j.B or set up the combo so that the Swallow Moon's spacing will still have them end up in front of you post forward roll (usually from double mami).

They can also technically quick tech and super jump away, so you also need to be on point with knowing how big the tech window really is and get ready to attack when the combo proration has reset. If I think they will neutral tech in this situation, I usually do [8] after Swallow Moon and j.C to otg her even from a distance.

From Hammer ender, 5a whiff into Swallow Moon is legit if you think they'll tech immediately forward or neutral, but they can just take the 5a for a blue combo in some situations, so I will usually just backstep and go for normal types of hammer roll punishes/okizeme.

Implying I learned anything about Rachel from AXIS

:v:

It's actually worth noting that because of the changes to Mami, when you go for a double Mami ender and it hits early (Rachel, Arakune, etc), the untech time often actually lasts long enough to do something like Bubble or any of the tricks above, whereas it was usually impossible in CS2.

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