Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

OmniSScythe

[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

Makoto's 214ACC is pretty nice. She can do a DP safe OS after it by buffering a dash into a forward jump and doing a low jC. Not sure how slow the DP has to be for it to work, but it definitely works in a mirror match.

LOVING the new makoto!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well guys I'm lookin for a little advice I struggle to do 2d - 2c they seem to be out of range on the smaller chara, is there a dash invovled to make it right?, combo I'm talkin about is: 5b-5cc-5d-2d-2c etc, also any midscreen combos to recommend??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well guys I'm lookin for a little advice I struggle to do 2d - 2c they seem to be out of range on the smaller chara, is there a dash invovled to make it right?, combo I'm talkin about is: 5b-5cc-5d-2d-2c etc, also any midscreen combos to recommend??

dash before 2D or before 2C or both lol.

for midscreen stuff>214A~CCCC, 5B/5C CH>2C>2D>214A~C~B punish/frametrap. On crouching you can stuff>214A~C~B>2A>5B>etc. Learn how to do 214A~C~B after 2D and 2C. Other starters goes into 2D>2C>214A~C~B, i.e. 3C, 214A~D CH, 214A~C~B CH/RC, Throw>214A~A>66A, PF(2), 214C~D CH, 214A~CCCC RC etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nearly finished writing about every normal move in the guide, suddely lost everything i wrote for some reasons... Must write up everything from the zero :gonk:

Also i dont have my EX yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a decent time with it. Felt the changes immediately in some casuals with my roommate's Lambda. Basically, I feel like you just have to be really smart when playing with her and mind your spacing correctly (inb4 stuff has already been said). But yeah.

I still love playing Makoto, she's even more fun than she has ever been, but I seriously don't like not having Lightning Arrow mid-combo anymore. When you think about the how the move looks, how couldn't it? Oh well. /shrug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having a decent time with it. Felt the changes immediately in some casuals with my roommate's Lambda. Basically, I feel like you just have to be really smart when playing with her and mind your spacing correctly (inb4 stuff has already been said). But yeah.

I still love playing Makoto, she's even more fun than she has ever been, but I seriously don't like not having Lightning Arrow mid-combo anymore. When you think about the how the move looks, how couldn't it? Oh well. /shrug.

shudders i already derped in that match up. Can't imagine it now ; ;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pretty much the only thing I don't like about makoto is that lightning arrow itself no longer has a use. It's sort of frame trappy on block, maybe, but the risk in using it is drastically disproportionate to the reward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It still works.. on counter >.>

I seriously don't like not having Lightning Arrow mid-combo anymore.

I understand that it works on Counter, but I'm no comfortable with throwing out Asteroid Vision for something like that. Like Eshi said, it's not too worth getting anti-aired for it. Maybe when I get more used to the new trajectory and learn to use it more to my advantage on closing distance, then I'll probably do it, but I highly doubt it.

My favorite combo starter was CH 5B > 2C > 214B~D. =/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2C proration pretty much killed the combos anyhow. With the changes in Trajectory, it becomes a corner only option, with the changes to 2D, I don't think you can do it with that either. Wall bounces removed from 214A~D and Comet Cannon/Break Shot remove it as being a combo ender even. Oh well, I'll just deal with it.

And don't get me wrong, I love how the new combos look and whatnot, I'd just like to have a use for a special she has outside of some gimmicks she can do with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that one to tell me Comet Cannon can wall bounce on CH too? Other than that, are you insisting she still gets broke-ass damagez off of it?

Yeah, the combo does 5.4 off of a move that usually never even connects and with Meter. It's not necessarily practical, because everyone in the cast can see it coming thanks to her practically emailing them the time her plane's taking off, but it can still be used, like the Lightning Arrow starters.

We can literally spend all day going back and forth between the risk/reward of using Makoto's specials. Which, I have this feeling I'm gonna end up doing somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to be butthurt because you can't lighting arrow in much practicle way anymore, and comet cannon still have its use vs zoning characters no matter how obvious it may look like. If giving tips = telling a char is broken maybe I should leave you and your whining which are leading nowhere and help more interested people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get comet cannon CH's all the time. We understand that lightning arrow isn't very good anymore. That is not an invitation to be negative about everything.

Makoto's 214ACC is pretty nice. She can do a DP safe OS after it by buffering a dash into a forward jump and doing a low jC. Not sure how slow the DP has to be for it to work, but it definitely works in a mirror match.

Following up on this - Makoto's DP is actually remarkably fast at 9 frames. Litchi, Jin, even Bang's Ashura are all as fast or slower, so the same setup works on them. I don't think it works on Ragna or Hazama though, whose DPs are 7 frames. I'm gonna experiment to find other potentially useful setups.

EDIT: I take the above back, when timed correctly it DOES work on Ragna. So it might just work on everyone! except the obvious DPs with autoguard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

236A is still an amazing anti-air...if you place it BEFORE they jump. V:

Also was able to finally play some ranked matches with bearable delay, CH 5B > 2C feels really useless outside of the corner. >_>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can read 'butthurt' from any of my statements, you're clearly reading into things that aren't there. Which is generally why I don't talk to anyone because it seems nowadays when someone has a /SLIGHT/ complaint, there is always someone there to immediately jump on it and make it into a bigger deal than what it should be. Despite my 'whining' I've clearly already accepted the fact that nothing I say will matter due to the fact I have no chance that anything I say will make it to a developer.

Back to the original program; Comet Cannon is easily the worst projectile in the game. Did you know you can barely react with it to, say Lambda's Spike Chaser (No charge) without getting hit? You literally have to do it as soon as you see Lambda reach down and even then, it'll only trade with it, time and inputs I'd much rather use doing a Super jump over it to try and clear some distance. Optic Barrel, Hazama 5D, Lambda's array of zoning tools and even Litchi's staff are better zoning options than Comet. And I even forgot about Jin's array of Ice Swords. Rachels Lobelia's can hit you out of it as well due to their arching trajectory. If someone gets hit with it, they probably deserve the 5.4k that can follow.

Makoto's Projectile has always been used as a combo extender rather than it's original fireball tendencies ever since CS1. And I'm still not understanding how you even can think Makoto is at all broken at this point due to sloppy pressure, questionable advances, and very close-range normals/specials.

I'd also like to add that even though I'm negative about certain things, every move has it's uses. It's just that I don't really like some of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe if it wasn't written in such a negative tense a different reply would have followed, but who cares about that anyway it isn't the point of this conversation. But when you have this random Mu-12 spamming lazers thinking it cannot be penetrated, even if I am "emailing" them a comet cannon, the small amount of time to block it is far better than turtling a way in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makoto's Projectile has always been used as a combo extender rather than it's original fireball tendencies ever since CS1.

Completely wrong, even disregarding its use as an oki tool you're still wrong. For example, since CS1 it's helped her a LOT with the Carl match-up, albeit it's not as good since nirvana absorbs it now.
And I'm still not understanding how you even can think Makoto is at all broken at this point due to sloppy pressure, questionable advances, and very close-range normals/specials.
Makoto's pressure isn't "sloppy". It's worse than before, sure. She still is extremely dangerous up close and, like tsubaki, she has lots of decently damaging and fairly safe frame traps that get limitlessly better in the corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess my speech is just naturally negative? Fuck, I don't know.

I'll take my chances not getting rushed in while setting up to use it to get 3C'd out of. In the end, choosing to use it all ends up to playstyle. You are probably comfortable with the bet of the percentage they won't rush in while you're setting it up. I, on the other hand am more comfortable with a stoic and patient approach, which I've probably obtained from constantly being rushed down by the other people I play against (among them, a Mu-12). They're not gonna literally spend all of the match throwing their projectiles and I'll either get myself in there patiently and go in with my own pressure, or have them come in and act accordingly with my generic anti-air and swiss army 2A.

While she's a rushdown character, you sometimes have to take it a little slow.

Completely wrong, even disregarding its use as an oki tool you're still wrong. For example, since CS1 it's helped her a LOT with the Carl match-up, albeit it's not as good since nirvana absorbs it now. Makoto's pressure isn't "sloppy". It's worse than before, sure. She still is extremely dangerous up close and, like tsubaki, she has lots of decently damaging and fairly safe frame traps that get limitlessly better in the corner. .

I've hardly ever played the Carl match-up, so I'll definitely admit my knowledge is a bit weakened in that aspect. And I left Fireball Oki to be implied, seeing as we just got down with CS2.

Her main frame traps C~C and 6B~C can only be cancelled into Asteroid Vision (With the inclusion of 2C for the former) and her D attacks. Given these options, the opponent could easily Mash out if you choose to use A ver. do DP/Super if character and meter permits, or watch as you awkwardly send yourself straight up to a peusdo safe position. The only reason these will work is if you mix it up very well unless the opponent has very good reactions.

And I've never once mentioned her damage is subpar. I prefer it how it is now.

EDITING: Self merging is cool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe not negative but pessimistic? idk, lol

I always viewed comet cannon as purely a spacing tool during neutral rather then actually trying to hit them with it. It's not the best tool, but when it is out there, its out and you opponent does have to take consideration that it is there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×