[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[kotokot]

no, this doesn't work. Only if you beat deadspike during startup.

[Bibiquadium]

That's probably the worst idea ever, just jump out if you're stuck in the corner don't mash.

[Reisi]

Her leg hitbox might move back, but she puts it right in front of her before 6C goes active, so that's not it.

Also, the animation for the Deadspike projectile will play through to the end even if Ragna gets knocked out of it, just that its hitbox disappears. So it looks like you went through.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure you're getting away with it because some people do 214D on reaction to the "ding" of your tech, whereas they'd have to do it beforehand. And, as you said, its start-up is slow, so you can knock them out if it. Not because of hitboxes, but because they're doing it wrong.

That's probably the worst idea ever, just jump out if you're stuck in the corner don't mash.

^

[SolAscension]

That's probably the worst idea ever, just jump out if you're stuck in the corner don't mash.

This wasn't a matter of me saying omg I have this great idea, all I said was i'd fuck around with it lol. Worst case happens, and most probably will is I get hit by deadspike lol. (Note: this isn't what I normally do lol)

Reisei what you said is probably whats happening.

On another note: fuck netplay.

[Bibiquadium]

Just saying before it goes into further research about the quadratic formula of the 6C and the law of gravity of death spike in a netplay universe.

[SolAscension]

X=1

Anyway after messing around in training mode it's definitely just a matter of startup. So if your opponent is doing his dead spike pressure wrong, 6c him to the face lol.

[White]

<Rant> I just need to bitch and vent lol. I know I'm not the best around, and I work really hard to get better (currently learning stick), but it feels like no matter how much I do improve... Makoto just sucks, she just does. I'm not saying she can't do damage, or has no potential. It just feels like that every move she has, is beat out easily by every other character... I'm not going to quit or anything, but as a long time Makoto player, it really is noticeable how bad her nerfs were. </rant>

You are no longer riding the wave. I went through this for about 2 months or so. I was playing better but still losing. Keep at it broski :3

Man I don't even feel like I'm working that much harder than back in CS1/2, my win rate is similar to that as well.

I just wish there was something more stylish like a way to cancel AV's movement early or some shit to make her current stuff less boring. =/

After reading these I just have to come in and put in my two cents on what you guys posted

HAHA at what you guys have said first of all CSEX Makoto is best Makoto, this is the way she was meant to be played same goes for Noel, Litchi, etc which are other characters people complain about in this current built. Damage isn't everything especially in a game such as Blazblue, Makoto is very agile and can move in easily against many characters she has great defense options. Makoto was heavily brain dead in the past two versions of the game, she is a lot more fun to use now and I'm not sure where this "loss of creativity" bullshit comes from but sounds like an excuse to find another character to tier whore....

As many have said already just keep at it and don't drop her just to win more. NOW this is the end of my short rant

So now I have to ask..anyone know of any current good Jpn Makoto players for obvious reasons as seen here many of the past Makoto users dropped her for Valk Ragna etc which is a damn shame only Makoto user I can think of is [Goro?]

[Bibiquadium]

You can always stalk Jourdal's uploads and check for high PSR Makoto players, Goro is loyalx not sure if SuperMakotoGod still a part of it I don't really follow japanese payers.

[Kimchi]

@white tl"dr

[Bibiquadium]

Damage?

[OmniSScythe]

After reading these I just have to come in and put in my two cents on what you guys posted

HAHA at what you guys have said first of all CSEX Makoto is best Makoto, this is the way she was meant to be played same goes for Noel, Litchi, etc which are other characters people complain about in this current built. Damage isn't everything especially in a game such as Blazblue, Makoto is very agile and can move in easily against many characters she has great defense options. Makoto was heavily brain dead in the past two versions of the game, she is a lot more fun to use now and I'm not sure where this "loss of creativity" bullshit comes from but sounds like an excuse to find another character to tier whore....

As many have said already just keep at it and don't drop her just to win more. NOW this is the end of my short rant

[Goro?]

How did you manage to make this a post that was insulting, wrongly directed and full of opinionated drivel is beyond me.

Here's some FACTS:

1. "this is the way she was meant to be played" At a single glance you can tell she supposed to be a boxing squirrel who has the element of trickery.

Said trickery factor has long been forgotten as they continue to mess around with asteroid vision after screwing up the paths and making lighting arrow almost useless unless you're hoping your opponent doesn't have a pulse.

2. "Makoto is very agile and can move in easily against many characters" If we were talking about CS1 Makoto who's AV paths and ways to follow it up gave her the ability to close in on zoners on par with Tao/Valk and Bang then sure.

But instead we're talking CSEX Makoto who (just like CS2 btw) has average speed, average air options and rather average limbs. However all this means she has below average means to deal with the zoners and characters that have better spacing tools (eg Ragna, Litchi, Tao, Plat, Carl). But how did CS2 Makoto deal with this? Damage obviously was one factor which btw usually was around 2-3k unless she got a CH starter or burned meter; as well as having the ability to confirm air hits into corner carry.

3. "loss of creativity bullshit" To correct you it's loss of options and creativity this version is lacking. Now I'm not gonna go and say nothing needed to be changed but rather way too many options was taken away.

Stuff that needed to go: Parry Loop, Multi-Break shots, 2CxN, BBS speed and glitches, Instant Astral start up, positive proration on parry snap, can combo off CH 6A+B, PF being fully invincibly from start to finish | Did I love these? Fuck yes but they were what made Makoto broken and had to go.

Stuff that was unique or necessary: Air DP loops, Lighting arrow bouncing on regular hit, Break shot wall bounce, PF's positive proration, 6B's overhead speed, AV paths CS1 or CS2, the ability to barrier cancel AV paths, and the big one: only being able to use 2D once. | Anyone thinking that CSEX Makoto has gotten any good outside of what, her command low being able to combo on hit? Is only trying to show off being a low tier hero and/or someone who for whatever reason didn't want to use because they thought she was too good. Honestly anyone that truly seriously thought Makoto was "heavily brain dead" didn't know the character enough to comment.

4. "she has great defense options" Please don't make me comment on this. =/

tl;dr: Salty that I just came home from doing 4 back to back final exams (those of which I fucking ace'd!) and saw someone being wrong on the internet.

[White]

How did you manage to make this a post that was insulting, wrongly directed and full of opinionated drivel is beyond me.

Here's some FACTS:

1. "this is the way she was meant to be played" At a single glance you can tell she supposed to be a boxing squirrel who has the element of trickery.

Said trickery factor has long been forgotten as they continue to mess around with asteroid vision after screwing up the paths and making lighting arrow almost useless unless you're hoping your opponent doesn't have a pulse.

2. "Makoto is very agile and can move in easily against many characters" If we were talking about CS1 Makoto who's AV paths and ways to follow it up gave her the ability to close in on zoners on par with Tao/Valk and Bang then sure.

But instead we're talking CSEX Makoto who (just like CS2 btw) has average speed, average air options and rather average limbs. However all this means she has below average means to deal with the zoners and characters that have better spacing tools (eg Ragna, Litchi, Tao, Plat, Carl). But how did CS2 Makoto deal with this? Damage obviously was one factor which btw usually was around 2-3k unless she got a CH starter or burned meter; as well as having the ability to confirm air hits into corner carry.

3. "loss of creativity bullshit" To correct you it's loss of options and creativity this version is lacking. Now I'm not gonna go and say nothing needed to be changed but rather way too many options was taken away.

Stuff that needed to go: Parry Loop, Multi-Break shots, 2CxN, BBS speed and glitches, Instant Astral start up, positive proration on parry snap, can combo off CH 6A+B, PF being fully invincibly from start to finish | Did I love these? Fuck yes but they were what made Makoto broken and had to go.

Stuff that was unique or necessary: Air DP loops, Lighting arrow bouncing on regular hit, Break shot wall bounce, PF's positive proration, 6B's overhead speed, AV paths CS1 or CS2, the ability to barrier cancel AV paths, and the big one: only being able to use 2D once. | Anyone thinking that CSEX Makoto has gotten any good outside of what, her command low being able to combo on hit? Is only trying to show off being a low tier hero and/or someone who for whatever reason didn't want to use because they thought she was too good. Honestly anyone that truly seriously thought Makoto was "heavily brain dead" didn't know the character enough to comment.

4. "she has great defense options" Please don't make me comment on this. =/

tl;dr: Salty that I just came home from doing 4 back to back final exams (those of which I fucking ace'd!) and saw someone being wrong on the internet.

The post was done because as I said, it was intended for me to drop my opinion and what I had to share about the current and past bitching going around about the character

By saying "this is the way she was meant to be played" I obviously meant she is not the cheap character Arc Sys mistakenly made her out to be in the first two iterations since her appearance. Wanting Air DP loops, PF's positive proration, and the ability to cancel her paths with BB is just asking for her to be braindead once again.

SURE some of her nerfs were a bit too much but its not likes she is completely shit as there are no shit characters in this game, in other words a low tier can defeat a top tier character unlike in Marvel or SF4, she plays well you just like the other players from CS2 are used to having her do retarded shit off of simple hit confirms

As for the low tier hero thing...its funny, im very open and Ill tell you whether im playing x y or z for the sake of tier whoring im not going to beat around the bush by coming up bullshit reasons why im using the character like many do, however CS1 and CS2 Makoto was the pre 2012 AE Yun of this game

Now about the defense options- let me ask you this during a pressured blockstring wouldn't you agree that Makoto has many answers compared to other characters such as Tao or Valk her options are strong now and were strong then

[Bibiquadium]

W/e is being written idgaf, Makoto is still awesome as fuck and the best character ever. Yes her Astroid Vision path has been fucked but 214B and C are safe on block and I baited so many DPs with 214A~D its not even funny and they all come with a nicr Fatal Counter that leads to 4k meterless minimum from anywhere in the screen and near a corner its 4.5k neterless at least, could be better if I took more time in training room. Her major loss from CS1 and CS2 is her tools and protation but still very legit if used properly, yet I cannot deny that some characters in this game are brainded as fuck , like Ragna and Hakumen but Hakumen vs Makoto matchup isn't even half as bad, I only have issues with massiv zoners like Lambda or Mu, but Mu's airborn hitbox makes it more legit. Rachel's pressure makes me sound free but that's a bit because I play with one of the top Rachel players in not THE top in NA so it makes it look harder, same for Tager, but everytime I play I learn more and become less free. Not sure why the fuck I'm writing all this but yeah, Makoto is still legit, you just have to really devote yourself to it. Also, shoutouts for being a drunken master when it comes to Makoto, I play her better drunk than sober. Sorry is there was any typo, drank 2 pitcher before wirting this after a super awesome offline meetup with the most awesome scene ever.

[OmniSScythe]

Let me just mention that what Bibi wrote is pretty much everyone in the Makoto forums thoughts, Makoto the character is still the best character in this game hand downs! On that note you can actually be air grabbed on reaction to AV B and C.

Also that I've cool off some SG and Nujabes I feel I can properly respond.

The post was done because as I said, it was intended for me to drop my opinion and what I had to share about the current and past bitching going around about the character

Most of the "bitching" you're seeing is rhetoric in nature, everyone complains about something. Even those who play characters that have it good.

Btw the keywords that really made me respond "...was heavily brain dead... "...excuse to find another character to tier whore...", more on those later.

By saying "this is the way she was meant to be played" I obviously meant she is not the cheap character Arc Sys mistakenly made her out to be in the first two iterations since her appearance. Wanting Air DP loops, PF's positive proration, and the ability to cancel her paths with BB is just asking for her to be braindead once again.

"Cheap" and "Braindead", when I read the word cheap I just figure once again it's someone who got hit by something a few times but instead finding the means to deal with it you'll rather complain. With braindead I assuming someone is talking about a character with options so good that there less if any consideration about what the opponent can do about. Ex: CS2 Noel's D dives. Makoto has never had anything of the sort except orb oki on a very few amount of characters.

Air DP loops were always low damage in nature, their sole propose was carry and meter and alot of character had/has the same option. PF's positive proration was Makoto version of Tsubaki/Ragna/Bang and Tao using 50 meter to use an install to greatly increase damage of a combo. Now can you explain why you find any of these "braindead".

SURE some of her nerfs were a bit too much but its not likes she is completely shit as there are no shit characters in this game, in other words a low tier can defeat a top tier character unlike in Marvel or SF4, she plays well you just like the other players from CS2 are used to having her do retarded shit off of simple hit confirms

Not one person here even mention she had anything like impossible matches, hell that kind of thinking is the lazy man out.

"As for the low tier hero thing...its funny, im very open and Ill tell you whether im playing x y or z for the sake of tier whoring im not going to beat around the bush by coming up bullshit reasons why im using the character like many do, however CS1 and CS2 Makoto was the pre 2012 AE Yun of this game"

First off the only time Makoto has been a top character was in CS2, and even then Valk and Haz are consider to had been up there with her. Also she was the most "fair" S-tier character this game ever had at that point.

Let's go back to CS1, I came up with all this stuff:

Yet Litchi, Bang, Tao and Valk was all consider better than her.

Further back to CT Carl had a freaking infinite on 80% of the cast, yet was consider 5th with Jin being the jack of all thread, V-13 and Arakune and being zoners and Rachel having the best rushdown in general on top being a damn good zoner.

Now about the defense options- let me ask you this during a pressured blockstring wouldn't you agree that Makoto has many answers compared to other characters such as Tao or Valk her options are strong now and were strong then

Her DP is actually useless against most gaps you find in proper block string on her, parry suffers the same fate. Tao's and Valk's DP-ish super are both better than PF as a reversal. and the only reason those two doesn't have that many defensive options is because they have overwhelming offensive.

[Domethieus]

A recently new account Makoto player lol...I'm fairly sure Omni wins here

@Sol: I know. Just pointing it out lolol

[SolAscension]

Length of time here dosen't matter lol. He wins because he's right lol.

[Bibiquadium]

214C's path is still very legit tho, you are not obligated to use D in pressure all the time. In corner pressure you can 214C C C~C, or hold D near ground to have the same effect as if it had hit and just grab, its height is high enough to bait bursts, or if they mash DP and you know it, 214C 5A Barrier cancel and so on, you aren't limited in option, D version is only good to fish FC's most of the time because if its IB'd which isn't hard to, it isn't as safe anymore.

[HIGEKING42]

i don't use it that often because it becomes too predictable.

[Bibiquadium]

Anything that is used too often is predictable

[OmniSScythe]

214C's path is still very legit tho, you are not obligated to use D in pressure all the time. In corner pressure you can 214C C C~C, or hold D near ground to have the same effect as if it had hit and just grab, its height is high enough to bait bursts, or if they mash DP and you know it, 214C 5A Barrier cancel and so on, you aren't limited in option, D version is only good to fish FC's most of the time because if its IB'd which isn't hard to, it isn't as safe anymore.

True enough since I use all this myself, the main thing I dislike about 214C's path is that if you know someone who pays attention to detail. The moment 214C forces the screen to move upward they can and will run out the corner while placing you in it.

Luckily I only played 6 of so people to this on reaction.

[Leo7]

LOL.

to aru kin no servbot causing issues in this thread i see.

[StarGazer]

Any Real Makoto player will agree on what Omni just said, no need to add anything.

Sorry for being inactive, i have 2nd mid term exams right now and finals the week right after it!!!! ZZZzzz...

<3 The artist, he is using my palette （´∀｀)

[Bibiquadium]

Makoto, why, so, awesome.

EDIT : To avoid double posting, something crucial was left behind which I find that could have been really useful in CSEX but maybe too retarded? Force crouch 6B into Star Gazer all day everyday.

[kotokot]

Makoto, why, so, awesome.

EDIT : To avoid double posting, something crucial was left behind which I find that could have been really useful in CSEX but maybe too retarded? Force crouch 6B into Star Gazer all day everyday.

i would prefer untechable knockdown on 6B)

i like how makoto is now, thought i would like if some things was a bit adjusted.

[Goldchampion200]

Dat picture.....its just soo awesome