[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Urichinan]

Just to answer the earlier questions about what CU > RC combos to do, here's some easy ones:

Mid-Screen:

623C > RC > 2D > Dash > 2C > 214A~C~B > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (2747 DMG/17 MG)

623C > RC > Dash > 2C > 214A~A > 6A > 2D > 214A~C~B > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (2801 DMG/19 MG)

Near Corner:

623C > 6C > 2D > Dash > 2C > 214A~C~B > 5C > 6C > 214B > j.A > j.B > dj.D > Dash > 5D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (3104 DMG/31 MG | This one carries really far)

623C > RC > 2D > 2C > 214A~C~B > 5CC > j.B > dj.D > Dash > 5D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (3243 DMG/30 MG)

Corner:

623C > RC > 2D > 2C > 214D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > dj.D > 5D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (3430 DMG/28 MG)

623C > 214D > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 236A~D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > dj.D > 5D > Dash > 5CC > j.B > j.623C~D (3650 DMG/38 MG)

[Bibiquadium]

Those are the forward combos, we were talking about side swapping combos.

[Teutonicknight]

Those work too though. I like a bit of variety in my gameplay. Thanks Uri!

Heck, I'm even going to start practicing early 2D's and 3D's as soon as I get back into groove.

[Kenrou.Horo]

Man, there's barely any Makotos on PSN

[Dark Ranger88]

I'm trying to get on PSN, you background thief. I just have to fix my living room setup so there's not a 5 frame delay on everything I do.

Just kidding about the thief part. It is a reference to our first conversation.

[Kenrou.Horo]

yeah i got the reference aha. Does 5ms really affect gameplay that much? How many frames does that translate into? EDIT: Oops for some reason I read that as 5ms instead of 5 frames :P I don't really notice the difference, but then again I'm probably just used to it xD

[swordsman09]

I could go on PSN if I wasn't so lazy. I've been playing a lot of Playstation All-stars as of late.

[Bibiquadium]

Your connection is far worst than Stargazer's and he's from Saudi Arabia.

[mAc Chaos]

bodied

[swordsman09]

That's cold Bibi...

[Teutonicknight]

Your connection is far worst than Stargazer's and he's from Saudi Arabia.

Dang!

[Kenrou.Horo]

Hey guys, how do you get about fighting Noel and Carl? Its so hard to gain Carl experience since he's so rare, and Noel is well...Noel. I hate her no matter which char I'm using xD

[Bibiquadium]

If you over commit on Noel it'll come back at you. Be careful of your actions.

[swordsman09]

Most Noels I fight are idiots. I try to bait out their 214D and punish. The only real problem is people spamming 2D after everything they do. At that point, I would go for a Comet Cannon just so it forces them to come closer.

For Carl, I try to use Asteroid Vision a lot to try and get past Nirvana. Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't. It depends on how good the Carl player is.

EDIT: Also, watch out for Carl's throws. This is mainly when you're in the air but be aware that any of his throws can lead into a combo.

[Teutonicknight]

Hey guys, how do you get about fighting Noel and Carl? Its so hard to gain Carl experience since he's so rare, and Noel is well...Noel. I hate her no matter which char I'm using xD

I don't have much experience on Carl myself either, but against Noel, don't try blind rushing her since her ability to guess with her Drive is off the charts. Throw her as much as possible after micro dashes to catch her during her drives.

[Kenrou.Horo]

aight, thanks guys :3

[Teutonicknight]

Go get em' tiger! ...Squirrel. You know what I meant...

[Dark Ranger88]

For Carl you can use Eclipse turn to go past Nirvana. Her attacks are slow, so most of the time you can avoid them entirely and be right in Carl's face. Most Carls will piss their shorts and either try to jump away or start blocking. Don't rely on this though: sometimes he recovers from commanding Nirvana before you recover from eclipse turn, and like all things this can be baited.

Another thing you have to realize in this matchup is that Carl cannot approach you from the ground. Use your anti-air in this matchup because they always try to air-dash in with j.C and start pressure. What used to trick me most about this matchup is that my mind would always be preoccupied with what Nirvana was doing, so I wouldn't pay attention to Carl (or his highly telegraphed air-dashes).

[Yazumatto]

You do realize that your advice requires Carl to not do anything right? Eclipse turn has long recovery, not to mention you have to Asteroid vision first. Plus, Ada will destroy you if you just focus on Carl. It doesn't matter if his stuff is telegraphed, Ada is there to stop you from doing anything about it. They're a pair, you know.

The key is obviously to separate them which is much harder to do than say. The times that you beat him are the times when you've caught him slipping (read: matchup sucks). Jabbing Ada out of her non-armored moves when you have the chance helps. If you have some breathing room, laying down a Comet Cannon gives you a bit more time since it can shield you from Ada's projectile and makes jump-ins a bit more difficult. Well-timed anti-airs help as long as Ada isn't in your face. Back off if you're in danger of being sandwiched. If you ever catch him alone or Ada is stunned, rush him down and do everything in your power to keep him pinned. If he gets away, you're in for more of the same shit.

In general, the matchup is very turtley. Carl is in control for most of it. Against good Carls, you have to be a surgeon with your normals.

[Teutonicknight]

If you take Yazu's advice, you can even kill Ada doing this, putting Carl in a position he does not want to be in.

And since Carl has to use Ada quite often, depleting her meter, go for this if the Carl is really aggressive, but play it safe.

Also, Ada delay's Makoto's drive attacks, and he can blunder into them, even if they look like they already ended, if you're lucky, lol.

[Dark Ranger88]

Stuff.

I didn't say you should only focus on Carl...I said don't forget about him because he can be in your face in a second via air dash.

What do you mean my advice requires Carl to do nothing??? Carl has RECOVERY whenever he does a command input with Ada (he does a little point and stops for a second). So anything like the drill punch, Con Brio, or the projectile will leave him vulnerable to an Eclipse Turn -> 2A. If you time it well, he CAN'T do anything and Ada's attack will miss.

You have a tool that most other characters don't, something that lets you go past Ada. You can compromise all of the tools that he normally uses to contol neutral and force him to use a different strategy if you are aggressive with Eclipse Turn.

OR you can let Carl control neutral completely and pray that he makes a mistake (or Nirvana dies), because obviously any advice I give is stupid, has never worked, and should be ignored on the spot............

[HiagoX]

To be honest it really is not good advice.

Eclipse Turn has long recovery and no invul at all so getting punished becomes really easy. It's a lot better to patiently play your neutral and jump in when you find a opportunity.

[Bibiquadium]

I keep telling him that his advice are high risk low reward its like blocking and being patient was never an option.

[Yazumatto]

But blocking means you're losing though.

[Bibiquadium]

Thats the scrub way of thinking.